Despite not knowing anything about ballroom dancing I like to try and watch the celebs and dancers' technique as well as overall routine and vote on who I think is the best dancer, but sometimes I need a little help!
On Saturday the judges were a bit confusing so was wondering if anyone on here could help straighten a couple of things out?

Firstly - salsa arms. Mat was criticised (by CRH I think) for his not being extended but Lilia said they should be more loose. CRH also praised Carol for her arms. Who is right, CRH or Lilia?

Secondly - Emma's right arm looked very strange (to me)when she was in ballroom hold, almost as if it was sagging. But all the judges praised her position, the rest of which I agree was very good. Was there anything wrong with her arm or is it just me (very possible )?
Note: I am not an Emma hater nor do I wish to start an anti-Emma ranting session, I'm merely interested in the excellent opinions of our resident forum experts!

Apologies if any of this has been discussed elsewhere and thanks in advance for any help.

well in a quandry didnt hear the comments on Matt's arms BUT Salsa is a close hold dance should have intricate turns and arm changes frankly Matt and Lilia danced more of a samba.

Carol and Matt the only couple for me on the night with the correct Salsa hold

I agree, that's exactly what I thought!

I thought there were different styles of Salsa?

Are there any defined rules and correct ways?

Matt's arms were too stiff as was the rets of his body at times. Part of him not being able to let go.

Karen and Mark did a couple of proper Cuban basics so I would put them equal with Carol and Matt for correct Salsa holds(they were more Cross Body lead than Cuban).

There are numerous styles of Salsa. No defined rules but correct technique. Recently though alot of teachers (especially it seems in Spain) are mixing adding the Cuban circular motion moves into predominantly the predominantly straight line style of New York. It looks great when done properly. I must get my New York up to scratch!

Wow! There's a lot of Salsa stuff, sounds really cool though. Thanks everyone for the help.

Having watched back Emma and Darren's dance from Sat night I can't see anything noticably wrong with Emma's right arm. Personally I'd like to see a little more bend in Darren's arm at the elbow so the hold isn't quite so wide but that's only a personal style thing rather than there being anything wrong with it. As long as the arm doesn't drop between the shoulder and the elbow then there are a few different styles of hold, depending on how the man likes to lead.

To me it was her footwork that was not so great. Before people jump on me I'm not an Emma hater either! For me I didn't feel her feet were quite neat enough and with her topline and musicality being so developed I'm sure she is capable of improving her footwork too - its not beyond her technically.

The RSPB (Royal Society for the Protection of Bunton) have got everyone running scared! Every comment you read about her now has to include an insistence that we're not "hating" her cos we're all scared of the tongue-lashings!


Nice points about the footwork, latinprincess ~ interesting that the judges (well, some of them) make the same point.

I think when some people will automatically turn on the person who appears to be doing the best (Emma, Zoe etc) its easy for people to be too scared to make constructive criticism of them without covering themselves first!!

Emma isn't my favourite celeb but there is no doubting that she is producing good performances each week.

The judges do indeed make similar comments on her footwork but I wish they'd clarify what they mean because it sounds like they are just being picky about her feet when in fact "footwork" is almost 50% of ballroom dancing in my eyes. She needs to realise that without correct footwork the dance isn't technically correct however nice it looks. If she could master that as well then I'd be really really impressed with her as an amateur.

A good comment. I do actaully like it when the judges are picky like that (and they agree of course!).

It is amazing how one subtle picky comment or realisation can turn your whole dancing around and move it that next level.

For me footwork is the most important aspect. Ironically, coming back to Salsa, the better you get the more your feet do 'what they want to' rather than stick to the basics. But this only only because the dancer knows the basic steps so well they can mess about with them but still keep in the 4/4 timing and bring them straight back into a normal solid basic when they need to. This is especially important when you do mess up and get out of time: rather than stopping or hicupping while you work out how to get back into step you can use that sixth sense and experience to let your feet work themselves out once you have told them they are out of step.

This is harder with ballroom and other Latin dances as the footwork is more prescribed.

I'd really like it if the judges would explain to people a little more about the technicallity of the dance as well as just the feel. At least one of the panel is looking at the technical execution of the dance so why shouldn't they clarify what they are looking for.

Just one or two basic points on footwork - ie, forwards steps being always on the heel (a few exceptions in some figures), heel drags in the foxtrot, foot pressure in latin I think would help people understand what they are looking at more. Surely the more people understand what the judges are looking at the better

I was just going to post that I wishes the judges would be more technical in their analysis of the dance ~ I'm getting bored with all the metaphors and I'd rather hear a good critique of the twiddly bits. Maybe not from all the judges, but more than we're getting now.
Last edited by dancingbearbear : 07-11-2006 at 13:54

Re-Emma's arms.

I don't know that it's her arms being saggy so much as other celebs arms being ramrod straight. This happens when the lady dances too far to the left of her partner.

Agree with wanting the judges to be more technical. Len saying something was more sizzle than sausage does not help much! although from what Craig said on 'Something for the Weekend' I think they get together in the bar afterwards, which may offer more opportunity to discuss specifics.

I think the level of technical comments is ok (I'm probably the only one though!). Jan for instance, I think Craig said her backstep was too high? He was spot on about that. I'm sure the professionals look back at the tapes as well to instruct their partners about what went wrong so maybe the judges feel they don't need to get too in-depth and as Thess said, they probably meet up after the show to talk about it.

Have you tried the red button commentary? He picks up more on the technicality of the dances.

I have indeed ~ it's great. I like the eliminated pros on it too ~ James was very interesting on it

Not all forward steps are on the heel. Specially in Slow Fox. In Latin all forward steps should be toe pushing into the ground. We can not expect perfection from people who are only beginners but they should be close with all the tuition they are getting. Remember also nerves play a big part and also self consciousness. The only really bad thing is the awful music. If its a tango play tango music, if its a Waltz play a waltz.

With the exception being the Paso, where heel leads are expected.

these judges with the exception of Len couldnt be more technical as they obv dont know some of the technique themselves

That's a bit harsh I think after doing SCD they must have picked up some of the technical aspects. I can imagine they don't talk much about it since it's Len's role to do so. But I dare say I'm alone in this discussion

So, in preparation for Saturday, can I ask all the experienced ballroomers & latiners what we should be looking for in posture, footwork & arms in the samba & the american smooth (indeed are there any "rules" in the american smooth ~ got the impression it was a bit "made up"!)

The Samba = carnivale party dance - Lots of hip action. Can tell a samba by the vertical bounce.
-Steps are taken using the ball of the foot.
-Bouncing action predominantly through the knees. Should see Botafogo which is a traveling walk with a change of direction from left to right or right to left.
-Arms should be outstretched.
-Should be some stationary steps but there should also be good use of the floor. Usually see a lot of couples hitting each other during this dance in comps!

Jukka Haapalainen & Sirpa Suutari samba's are really good if you ever get a chance to see it.

Not much more to add to what to look for in the samba, apart from flexing through the stomach to give the bounce - Flavia always describes it as like you're being sick (great image I know!)

American smooth is indeed much less free from "rules" compared to the International style ballroom dances. It tends to combine steps from the waltz, vw, tango and foxtrot but be more elaborate and showman like in its choreography.

Generally couples are out of hold for almost 60% of the dance though this doesn't have to be all at one time. The flow from being in hold to being out of hold should be fluent and unobvious.

There is also the chance to put in elegant lifts and fancy footwork - as long as it is executed gracefully!

In general think Fred and Ginger! This is only my take on the dance I'm sure people with more knowledge can describe it better and add more!

Wow, thanks for those really detailed posts ~ when Bruce asks Len what we should be looking for in each dance I bet he's not a patch on you two! I'll be all "vertical bounce" this and "vomit stomach" that on saturday and feeling very smug!

Seriously, its nice to learn ~ I've studied ballet, tap, disco & belly dance, but know precious little about ballroom and latin, so thanks for sharing, cos I like to know what I'm looking at/for.

Aww thanks! I know what you mean about liking to know what you're looking at. I love watching strictly back and seeing how many technically good and bad points I can spot. It helps my dancing so much!

I'm loving "vomit stomach" as a twist on my way of thinking about the samba motion! I'd not thought to use those words - I'll be shouting them at my partner in practice on Friday!!!