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Creative Zen vision m question
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dan_133
07-11-2006
i want a new mp3 player and cant decide between the Creative Zen Vision M or an iPod video.

I hear that the creative has a high definition screen and i want to know if its a true high definition screen?

Which player is better?
SeaviewPier
07-11-2006
Go for the ipod if music storage is most important to you.
If downloading films, tv, music videos the go for Zen Vision W - its fantastic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mMC2dynKVo
funkyjunkymunky
07-11-2006
I have a Zen Vision:M and I love it! Much better than an iPod, you don't have to use iTunes, and you can take music off it again on other computers. I use the radio all the time too.
sancheeez
07-11-2006
Subjective really.

Between those two, if you plan to make a lot of use of the video playback fucntionality, then it's the Vision:M .... by a mile.

But .... if you plan to make a lot of use of video, then there are better players than the Vision:M as well.

Vision:W (as already mentioned)
Cowon A2
Umpteen Archos players
Iubi Blue
Viliv P2 (if it ever appears)

etc etc .....
SeaviewPier
07-11-2006
What I like about the Zen Vision W is it plays all the typical downloaded files and formats. The 4-5 hour battery life is also pretty damn good as is its portability and size.
If you explain what files and formats you typically download, then others can suggest which is best for your file needs. Avi downloads work a treat on the Vision W but that maybe not what your after?
dreamfish
07-11-2006
i had this choice recently and went for the vision m! a great feature (that topped it for me) is that u can hook it up to your tv and watch avi films! the ipod can do this, but files have to be converted and this takes ages.

one thing i prefer with the vision m is that i don't have to install any software - i simply use windows and it acts as an external drive and i can simply drag files into it!
sancheeez
07-11-2006
Originally Posted by SeaviewPier:
“What I like about the Zen Vision W is it plays all the typical downloaded files and formats. The 4-5 hour battery life is also pretty damn good as is its portability and size.”

... as does the A2 .... but with twice the battery life. 10 hours for video .... which is pretty much the best on the market ... which is one of the main reasons I bought it.

Originally Posted by dreamfish:
“i had this choice recently and went for the vision m! a great feature (that topped it for me) is that u can hook it up to your tv and watch avi films! the ipod can do this, but files have to be converted and this takes ages.”

Yup. A2 ... direct TV connection. You can also record from the TV with it as well.

Originally Posted by dreamfish:
“one thing i prefer with the vision m is that i don't have to install any software - i simply use windows and it acts as an external drive and i can simply drag files into it!”

Yup. A2 ... mass storage device. No software required.
Last edited by sancheeez : 07-11-2006 at 20:27
SeaviewPier
07-11-2006
If you get the Cowan A2 you will need glasses within a week.
If you plan to watch videos often, do yourself a favour and go for the bigger screen. Things like bookmarking, playlists, tags, etc. are nothing compared to eye strain from staring at a tiny screen for hours.
Both machines are very good but as with most things in life, size really does matter..
joshua321
07-11-2006
In my opinion, these things are what make the Vision M a clear winner over the ipod video:

- better sound quality
- screen is much better (resolution etc.), not sure how you would define 'High Definition' for PMPs but it looks darn good!
- hook video up to a TV (cable available at extra cost, you wouldn't want to do this with an ipod 'cause it would look horrid)
- twice the video battery life (4 hrs+)
- FM radio
- microphone
- plays for sure (download music from anywhere except itunes and sony)
- connect to any Windows PC and decide what to sync yourself (using WMP or bundled software)
- sync you calendar/ tasks with Outlook
- more video/ audio codecs than you can shake a stick at (as well as bundled video converter): WMV/ Xvid/ Divx/ Motion JPEG/ WMA/ MP3/ WAV/ Audible
Last edited by joshua321 : 07-11-2006 at 22:58
sancheeez
08-11-2006
Originally Posted by SeaviewPier:
“If you get the Cowan A2 you will need glasses within a week.
If you plan to watch videos often, do yourself a favour and go for the bigger screen.”

eh?

Vision:W - 4.3" 16:9 screen, 480x272 resolution, 262,144 colors

A2 - 4.0" 16:9 screen, 480x272 resolution, 16,000,000 colors

I'll take the extra 15,737,856 colours which give you a much deeper, richer picture thank you very much!

I don't think the extra 0.3" is likely to be the difference between needing glasses or not! I've watched plenty films (say 4 on the trot .... like to see the Vision:W manage that ) and TV programs on mine and my eyes are fine.

Oh yeah ... and if you want to get into the sound side of it you also get OGG and FLAC support and it handles AC3 sound in video as well.
Last edited by sancheeez : 08-11-2006 at 00:27
SeaviewPier
08-11-2006
Originally Posted by sancheeez:
“eh?

Vision:W - 4.3" 16:9 screen, 480x272 resolution, 262,144 colors

A2 - 4.0" 16:9 screen, 480x272 resolution, 16,000,000 colors

I'll take the extra 15,737,856 colours which give you a much deeper, richer picture thank you very much!

I don't think the extra 0.3" is likely to be the difference between needing glasses or not! I've watched plenty films (say 4 on the trot .... like to see the Vision:W manage that ) and TV programs on mine and my eyes are fine.

Oh yeah ... and if you want to get into the sound side of it you also get OGG and FLAC support and it handles AC3 sound in video as well.”

The OP should consider the screen size as 10% difference in screen size does make a difference.
The other thing that put me off the Cowan A2 is prior to reading this thread, be honest, had you ever heard of Cowan? No, me neither!!!
Customer Support is vital and if you read through many threads on this forum Zen's Customer Service is superb
If you search the Cowan A2 some people have had trouble sync ing files between hardrive and PMP and loads of other problems. Google search them both, partly what put me off ever owning a Cowan.
As with most things in life you get what you pay for and I recommend that you go with a name like Zen that everybody knows and trust.
Look at how many people own Zen products and how many own Cowan?
If they were giving away the A2 I might think about it but as I dont have a mortgage having paid it off last month and I can afford to buy most things I want. So as money is no object I can be fairly objective in the matter
Please 10% viewing reduction on an tiny, tiny screen really does make a massive difference. Trust me...
Each to their own but stick to a name you have heard of
and dont take our word, do your own research as we both are bias towards our own PMP's
Take care and let us know which one you plump for..
fredkite
08-11-2006
Originally Posted by SeaviewPier:
“Go for the ipod if music storage is most important to you.
If downloading films, tv, music videos the go for Zen Vision W - its fantastic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mMC2dynKVo”


Nice review, anybody know what the music is?
sancheeez
08-11-2006
Originally Posted by SeaviewPier:
“... but as I dont have a mortgage having paid it off last month and I can afford to buy most things I want. So as money is no object ...”

At approximately this point, I lost any interest/respect for anything you posted .... you'd managed to hold a reasonably cogent argument up until there ....

Congratulations on paying off your mortgage you are now my hero. Can I have your autograph please?

Are you perhaps related to the Queen?
CatsLikeCrisps
08-11-2006
I wouldn't touch the Cowan A2 with a bargepole.
I just read upteen problems with them on various "Google searches"
Seaview Pier, I loved your review and based on your recommendations I have pre-ordered one from play.
SeaviewPier
08-11-2006
Originally Posted by sancheeez:
“At approximately this point, I lost any interest/respect for anything you posted .... you'd managed to hold a reasonably cogent argument up until there ....

Congratulations on paying off your mortgage you are now my hero. Can I have your autograph please?

Are you perhaps related to the Queen?”

The point I am making here is I can afford any PMP on the market. I was prepared to pay up to £1000 for a PMP and if the Zen Vision W was a £1000 I would pay that. If money was no object , which it is, what would I buy, the answer is still the Zen Vision W. All I was offering the OP was a perspective of a "if money was no object what would you buy?"
Anyway, the original post was comparing the Zen Vision W to an Ipod video, not a crappy Cowan.
sancheeez
08-11-2006
Originally Posted by CatsLikeCrisps:
“I wouldn't touch the Cowan A2 with a bargepole.
I just read upteen problems with them on various "Google searches"
Seaview Pier, I loved your review and based on your recommendations I have pre-ordered one from play.”

Well, thats your call mate. It's a free country.

I'd be interested to see some of these 'problems' you found as one thing I found when I was looking for a player was Cowon have a reputation for producing quality products and backing them up with excellent customer support. This has bourne itself out with the number of firmware upgrades introducing new functionality and the total lack of any problems I've had with the player in the months I've owned it. If it was rubbish, I'd have sold it on and got something else ....

Up until I got the Cowon, I was a Creative devotee myself, I still have 4 Creative players in the house.

If I was buying a PMP again tomorrow, I'd look at the newer offerings from Archos (some of which look very nice ... they weren't around when I bought the A2) but I'd still take the A2 over the Vision:W.
sancheeez
08-11-2006
Originally Posted by SeaviewPier:
“Anyway, the original post was comparing the Zen Vision W to an Ipod video, not a crappy Cowan. ”

Umm .... no it wasn't.

It asked about the Vision:M .... which is a different player.

And it's Cowon.
CatsLikeCrisps
08-11-2006
The Zen Vision W looks so sexy and although not much difference in screen size, a bigger screen is more preferable to a smaller screen.
Holding a small screen a shortish distance from your face for 3-4 hours at a time was a serious consideration.
Zen also have a well known branding, a serious catalogue of MP3 players and the like.
I hope they continue to bring new players to the market and new products.
Never been a fan of ipod video and I am sure whichever one he or she decides upon, I am sure they will have loads of fun.
Technology moves so quickly and no doubt new products will come along to tempt me to part with my cash.
sancheeez
08-11-2006
So what were the A2 'problems' you managed to find then?

Had a look on google myself and nothing leapt out at me .............
CatsLikeCrisps
08-11-2006
Originally Posted by sancheeez:
“So what were the A2 'problems' you managed to find then?

Had a look on google myself and nothing leapt out at me .............”

Just a list of 125 problems found on one of the forums

http://iaudiophile.net/forums/archiv....php/f-42.html

Hundreds of other examples elsewhere, as I said, when you get this many, the alarm bells start ringing.
sancheeez
08-11-2006
Ha ha ha ha ..... I use that forum ..... have done for months.

A lot of those problems are nothing to do with the unit. It's people trying to use bad files, asking questions, misunderstaning how something works etc etc. Yes, there are a few genuine problems in there but they are the exception, not the norm, as you'd have seen yourself if you'd browsed a bit further into your own link ....

What you linked to is a summary of the problems forum on the site. By looking at that list you are taking it as read that every single one of them relates to an actual 'problem' with the unit and is not a repeat.

Have you ever looked at the PC Problem forum on this site? How many of the questions in there are simple misinformation or understanding?

If I posted a link to the list of threads on that forum would you then never buy a PC?

In the USA and far east, Cowon actually have a very good reputation for producing quality products and they are FAR bigger markets than the UK (or the whole of Europe for that matter).
SeaviewPier
08-11-2006
Originally Posted by CatsLikeCrisps:
“Just a list of 125 problems found on one of the forums

http://iaudiophile.net/forums/archiv....php/f-42.html

Hundreds of other examples elsewhere, as I said, when you get this many, the alarm bells start ringing.”

Alarming Hard Disk Noise?
Power-up / initialize problems
Just recieved Cowon A2, start charging... nothing happened...
power problem
Had any problems with your Cowon A2 when new?
Dust under my A2 screen?
Cowon A2 Issues...Help
I can't watch any of the sample movies on the A2..
Dead Charger
Slight Wallpaper Problem
It's dead the first day I'm using it?
My a2 died today!!!!!!
Windows won't recognize my A2 anymore
A2 not turning on
a problem with mTrans...
Broken A2/Dropped!!
dust behind glass.
a2 joystick
Sound from A2 headphone jack is wacky
Help Mounting COWON A2 in Linux
No video display on AV Out
Troubles with lyrics
Help with music
micrphone record fail
Loud buzz encoding audio cd to mp3 VBR
Display problem
No battery indicator on screen?
Damaged screen
MP3 not showing up
Mic Recording Problem
Can anybody help me?
Help! please
time display
video record problem
Oh, no: movies stop at 2:29:59
A2 seems to have died..
Battery will not charge more than half!!!
=>!!help!! <= Please !!
Display On/Off Problem
NO Equalizer on movie playback - Am I brain-dead?
Windows XP 64 support?
Menus and text flickering on TV (movies fine)
Back button causes unit to rewind?!?
A2 Won't Initialize
USB OTG not working
Playlists and a mac? Any way to?
Mpeg Question
Hang on this picture (FW 1.77E)
id3 tag problem
charger is 100v
Won't play audio files
Urgent Help Please
A2 A-Button Not A-OK
video and audio sync
How do I have a folder show only in BROWSER?
USB Device Not Recognized - HELP!!!!
Playing music through hifi system
A2 not turning on!!
Guarantee?
Missing Hard Drive Space?
A2 wont turn on after file transfer?
A2 does not go thru 'system initialize'
Movies stop playing at 2 hour mark
Bad hd maybe?
Urgent A2 Qs: Please help
Hobo's A2 Problems
B&W \ no video
fps bug
help AV problem
Buttons Sluggish
Problem Defragmenting my A2
[help]cowon earphone jack ##ed up
dust under the screen
Replacement screen?
Suddenly A2 can not charge fully
A2 just plain won't work
Dust Under the screen (don't want to fiddle about with it myself)
Sealing the A2
freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze
whats defragment
Dead A2?
Audiobook always starting from the same point
freeze and pause
Shuffle crash
Formatting
usb host broken?
Cowon Support
Problem with the hard drive
RMA job?
A2 Not Showing up on Drives List
A2 sound problem when Balance set to 0 (middle position)
Broken Joystick
Video Recoding not working
Recording from a DVD onto A2 - Sound issues
Headphones
A2 Ultra Slow
1 questions & 1 problem...
usb problem i think
computer restarted twice while defragmenting A2
I've Had Problems From The Start...
Transfer speed down.
Audio Sync problems when playing wmv
change clock?
Different Firmware & Application versions
cant activate wallpaper
Album Art Gone
charging A2
White stripes on screen when switching on
ogg issues
Opening the A2 ?
Problem while moving to next movie while playback
Audio skipping
headphone jack going all wonky
Battery life issues
Skipping on video playback
Pressure on the screen
Volume issue
USB transfer slow down
Won't record past 5 ninutes!
generic charger...?
Freezing up like mad
max filesize for videos?
A2 Jet Shell and Serial Numbers
Album art question (future A2 owner)
Screen doesn't initialize on boot


Only 125 problems with the Cowon A2, file problems, just on one likkle forum, endless. You are not looking hard enough on google!
Last edited by SeaviewPier : 08-11-2006 at 16:03
sancheeez
08-11-2006
I'll stick with hands on experience thanks.

I use DivX/Xvid (with and without AC3 sound), MPEG, WMV, MP3, OGG, FLAC, TXT and JPEG files on mine and can't say I've ever encountered any problems.

All files have always showed up, never had any unexpected results.

There are certain variations of files (mainly advanced DivX files ... QPEL, GMC etc) that won't play but I'm aware of those so they're not an issue.

If you have to look hard to find problems with something then that kind of implies that the aren't really problems in the first place.

The Vision:W isn't DivX certified (therefore not guaranteed full DivX support), doesn't support DivX v3, also doesn't support QPEL/GMC (not aware of any PMP that does for that matter) doesn't support AC3 sound ..... I'd be more worried about file problems with the W if I were you ....

Heh .... just had a quick browse on the Creative forums. Looks like the W doesn't support subtitle files either. Oh dear.

There were also a few Creative users on there moaning about the lack of useful firmware updates the Vision:M (the W's predecessor) got.
Last edited by sancheeez : 08-11-2006 at 16:10
CatsLikeCrisps
08-11-2006
Originally Posted by SeaviewPier:
“Alarming Hard Disk Noise?
Power-up / initialize problems
Just recieved Cowon A2, start charging... nothing happened...
power problem
Had any problems with your Cowon A2 when new?
Dust under my A2 screen?
Cowon A2 Issues...Help
I can't watch any of the sample movies on the A2..
Dead Charger
Slight Wallpaper Problem
It's dead the first day I'm using it?
My a2 died today!!!!!!
Windows won't recognize my A2 anymore
A2 not turning on
a problem with mTrans...
Broken A2/Dropped!!
dust behind glass.
a2 joystick
Sound from A2 headphone jack is wacky
Help Mounting COWON A2 in Linux
No video display on AV Out
Troubles with lyrics
Help with music
micrphone record fail
Loud buzz encoding audio cd to mp3 VBR
Display problem
No battery indicator on screen?
Damaged screen
MP3 not showing up
Mic Recording Problem
Can anybody help me?
Help! please
time display
video record problem
Oh, no: movies stop at 2:29:59
A2 seems to have died..
Battery will not charge more than half!!!
=>!!help!! <= Please !!
Display On/Off Problem
NO Equalizer on movie playback - Am I brain-dead?
Windows XP 64 support?
Menus and text flickering on TV (movies fine)
Back button causes unit to rewind?!?
A2 Won't Initialize
USB OTG not working
Playlists and a mac? Any way to?
Mpeg Question
Hang on this picture (FW 1.77E)
id3 tag problem
charger is 100v
Won't play audio files
Urgent Help Please
A2 A-Button Not A-OK
video and audio sync
How do I have a folder show only in BROWSER?
USB Device Not Recognized - HELP!!!!
Playing music through hifi system
A2 not turning on!!
Guarantee?
Missing Hard Drive Space?
A2 wont turn on after file transfer?
A2 does not go thru 'system initialize'
Movies stop playing at 2 hour mark
Bad hd maybe?
Urgent A2 Qs: Please help
Hobo's A2 Problems
B&W \ no video
fps bug
help AV problem
Buttons Sluggish
Problem Defragmenting my A2
[help]cowon earphone jack ##ed up
dust under the screen
Replacement screen?
Suddenly A2 can not charge fully
A2 just plain won't work
Dust Under the screen (don't want to fiddle about with it myself)
Sealing the A2
freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze
whats defragment
Dead A2?
Audiobook always starting from the same point
freeze and pause
Shuffle crash
Formatting
usb host broken?
Cowon Support
Problem with the hard drive
RMA job?
A2 Not Showing up on Drives List
A2 sound problem when Balance set to 0 (middle position)
Broken Joystick
Video Recoding not working
Recording from a DVD onto A2 - Sound issues
Headphones
A2 Ultra Slow
1 questions & 1 problem...
usb problem i think
computer restarted twice while defragmenting A2
I've Had Problems From The Start...
Transfer speed down.
Audio Sync problems when playing wmv
change clock?
Different Firmware & Application versions
cant activate wallpaper
Album Art Gone
charging A2
White stripes on screen when switching on
ogg issues
Opening the A2 ?
Problem while moving to next movie while playback
Audio skipping
headphone jack going all wonky
Battery life issues
Skipping on video playback
Pressure on the screen
Volume issue
USB transfer slow down
Won't record past 5 ninutes!
generic charger...?
Freezing up like mad
max filesize for videos?
A2 Jet Shell and Serial Numbers
Album art question (future A2 owner)
Screen doesn't initialize on boot


Only 125 problems with the Cowon A2, file problems, just on one likkle forum, endless. You are not looking hard enough on google!”

Thats terrible PR of the Cowon A2 - so glad I went for the Zen Vision W. Perhaps they should rename it the Cowpat A2
sancheeez
08-11-2006
Originally Posted by CatsLikeCrisps:
“Thats terrible PR of the Cowon A2 - so glad I went for the Zen Vision W. Perhaps they should rename it the Cowpat A2”

Ha ha ha ha.

I'll deal with the positives first .... at least you got the spelling right this time.

This is like having a conversation with a 12 year old. Are you sure you're even old enough to have a mortgage? Never mind pay it off ....

Anyway .... all you've done there is cut and paste a list from a problem/help foum on a Cowon site (not even the official one for that matter). Do you take everything you read on internet forums as gospel then? Not ideal research in my book!

I could cut and paste the Creative forum onto here if you want but it'd be kinda pointless really.

Personally, I think the the Vision:W is a decent player. Not the best, but decent. I could suggest changing the name of it to something childish ..... but that would be even more pointless than posting up the contents of Creative's forum ....

You don't also have an account under the name of HAXOR by any chance do you?
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