I'm pleased for Brendan it has been said. We all knew what he said was credible, but the judges wouldn't accept it (and Bruno was the worst at throwing it back at him). Now it's been said in real time and I, for one, am pleased for Brendan (never thought I would say that!).
Bruno Has FINALLY Admitted To Biased Marking On SCD
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Originally Posted by Veri:
“What effect is that? Giving a good dancer high marks? Or disliking a good dancer because they get high marks?
Perhaps part of the problem is thinking 9 has to mean a step below perfection.
What should he have learned from last series with Zoe Ball?
”
“What effect is that? Giving a good dancer high marks? Or disliking a good dancer because they get high marks?
Perhaps part of the problem is thinking 9 has to mean a step below perfection.
What should he have learned from last series with Zoe Ball?
”
If 10 is the maximum mark and equals perfection. Then it stands to reason that a 9 is a step below perfection. As for the last series, it was Bruno's favouritism in my opinion that led to her being bottom 2 for two weeks in a row and booted out in the final despite coming top. Unfair perhaps on the part of the GBP, but there you have it.
Bottom line I don't think Bruno is doing Emma any favours (even if he thinks he is) by trying to keep her in with high marks that aren't warranted
Originally Posted by missmanics:
“lol, will you guys get over it...it's not like Bruno is the only one ever to give Bias marking and certainly not just for Emma, i'm pretty sure in the past Arlene has probably marked Mark higher than deserved etc etc.....i've seen the same things in the American version also. You could say all the judges are bias towards Emma infact given they gave Carols cha cha the same overall score when from their comments you would believe it was better than Emmas.
IMO Bruno has certainly marked Louisa up in the past because 'she's 17' which should only really give her the advantage of learning quicker and being more flexible having more stamina and a better body than the others really, plus she's an actress which from what i've veiwed certainly seems to help with the performance side of the dances for most actors/actresses.
I did love her Tango on Sat though before anyone comes bashing me as some Louisa hater or whatever.
I've loved different dances that most of the celebs have done in fact. My allegience seems to change every week hehe.
Also if Bruno considers them the best dancers overall why shouldn't he mark them up i mean would you rather have someone with no dancing talent at all stay in just because someone else has a bad week? I mean it's not like the audience voting is completely fair either...how many ppl vote on the best dance and how many vote on who their fave celeb is but it probably all evens out in the end...and if it doesn't well thats just life. If it was fair well Arsenal would win the Premiership every year :P”
“lol, will you guys get over it...it's not like Bruno is the only one ever to give Bias marking and certainly not just for Emma, i'm pretty sure in the past Arlene has probably marked Mark higher than deserved etc etc.....i've seen the same things in the American version also. You could say all the judges are bias towards Emma infact given they gave Carols cha cha the same overall score when from their comments you would believe it was better than Emmas.
IMO Bruno has certainly marked Louisa up in the past because 'she's 17' which should only really give her the advantage of learning quicker and being more flexible having more stamina and a better body than the others really, plus she's an actress which from what i've veiwed certainly seems to help with the performance side of the dances for most actors/actresses.
I did love her Tango on Sat though before anyone comes bashing me as some Louisa hater or whatever.
I've loved different dances that most of the celebs have done in fact. My allegience seems to change every week hehe.
Also if Bruno considers them the best dancers overall why shouldn't he mark them up i mean would you rather have someone with no dancing talent at all stay in just because someone else has a bad week? I mean it's not like the audience voting is completely fair either...how many ppl vote on the best dance and how many vote on who their fave celeb is but it probably all evens out in the end...and if it doesn't well thats just life. If it was fair well Arsenal would win the Premiership every year :P”
Sorry, but Arlene hasn't marked Mark higher then the other judges, her marks are completely in line with the others, infact she's marked him lower then both Len and Bruno on at least two occasions.
BTW, if life was fair Arsenal would be relegated and the mighty Martin Jol's blue and white army would rule the football world
That drove me nuts last night! he didnt mark emma a 9 because she deserved it! but because she got poor marks!!!
WTF!???????
The cha cha was poor! and she could/maybe should have gone out!
WTF!???????
The cha cha was poor! and she could/maybe should have gone out!
Originally Posted by Diamondlife:
“If 10 is the maximum mark and equals perfection. Then it stands to reason that a 9 is a step below perfection. As for the last series, it was Bruno's favouritism in my opinion that led to her being bottom 2 for two weeks in a row and booted out in the final despite coming top. Unfair perhaps on the part of the GBP, but there you have it.
Bottom line I don't think Bruno is doing Emma any favours (even if he thinks he is) by trying to keep her in with high marks that aren't warranted”
“If 10 is the maximum mark and equals perfection. Then it stands to reason that a 9 is a step below perfection. As for the last series, it was Bruno's favouritism in my opinion that led to her being bottom 2 for two weeks in a row and booted out in the final despite coming top. Unfair perhaps on the part of the GBP, but there you have it.
Bottom line I don't think Bruno is doing Emma any favours (even if he thinks he is) by trying to keep her in with high marks that aren't warranted”
I agree with you.
I know that Len has said that a 10 isn't always used for perfection but for the best dance on the night - but, and call me old fashioned!
- to me a 10 is the top score you can get and so should only be used in exceptional circumstances. A 9 similarly should only be used to reward a fantastic dance, not as a tit-for-tat between the judges.It's the habit that seems to have happened over the last couple of series (but more so this year) of giving the top marks out like sweeties that has lead to this confusion. There is no shame in being giving 4's and 5's as marks, providing the marking is consistent - and going back to marking improvement of the celebs - which gives the series a natural progression and also the celebs something to aim for and hopefully achieve.
Originally Posted by *Nina*:
“I don't understand though. Don't the judges have to decided what they're going to score the dance as soon as it's finished? I thought they had to use those keypad things!”
“I don't understand though. Don't the judges have to decided what they're going to score the dance as soon as it's finished? I thought they had to use those keypad things!”
they did last season, but if u watch, this season they are leaning over and writing their scores down.
seems to me, usual reality tv scamming
Maybe now this has been admitted by a member of the judges they will start giving the scores that are deserved rather than scoring their favourites higher reguardless of how well they danced.
It has been pretty obvious for a long time who they prefer, I know contraversy gets higher ratings but they will loose valuable professional dancers for the next series if it continues. Maybe its time the judges were gotten rid of if they are so corrupt.
It has been pretty obvious for a long time who they prefer, I know contraversy gets higher ratings but they will loose valuable professional dancers for the next series if it continues. Maybe its time the judges were gotten rid of if they are so corrupt.
Doubt it! The thing that always strikes me about Bruno is how pig headed he is, he will continue to do this whilst still holding a king size grudge against Brendan for pointing it out! 
Originally Posted by dippydozy:
“Doubt it! The thing that always strikes me about Bruno is how pig headed he is, he will continue to do this whilst still holding a king size grudge against Brendan for pointing it out!”
“Doubt it! The thing that always strikes me about Bruno is how pig headed he is, he will continue to do this whilst still holding a king size grudge against Brendan for pointing it out!
”
I wonder what Brendan thinks of Bruno after last nights admission?
Depending on how many SCD viewers watch ITT as well, Bruno may well have just hammered a rather large nail in Emma's coffin. I've no doubt he's done it to other dancers as well (Louisa and my lovely Mark spring to mind), but he's specifically talked about Emma, thereby linking overmarking and Emma in the viewers mind. It's completely not her fault, but if Saturday's dance is not brilliant and blowing our socks off stuff I now half expect her to go 
HOLD THE FRONT PAGE..... NOT.
Craig and Arelene have both said as much earlier this series, always under the 'we all look for different things' banner, whenever pressed as to why so and so got a mark spread of 4 between the judges.
IT is human nature to to 'support' something you like and being reasonably intelligient human beings and having worked with each other on SCD for four years they all know what Len or Craig is going to mark and if they think otherwise then they will always add a point or take one off to sway things the way they want them. And let's be honest Bruno giving a whole extra mark to Emma whenever he feels like it is not going to affect the entire world and will never solve the Middle East Crisis. And again the way the GBP is voting off good dancers every other week, Bruno, Len or whoever giving a boost to their favourite is hardly earth shattering.
The problem arises when you get the situation Len was in on Saturday having dolled out a number of 9s this year to then have to give Matt's waltz a 10 was a bit daft, good as it was I would hardly have called it perfect.
Mind with the increasingly noisy mob they have in I am surprised the whole lot of them don't give tens all round just to shut up the number of booers in the audience.
Craig and Arelene have both said as much earlier this series, always under the 'we all look for different things' banner, whenever pressed as to why so and so got a mark spread of 4 between the judges.
IT is human nature to to 'support' something you like and being reasonably intelligient human beings and having worked with each other on SCD for four years they all know what Len or Craig is going to mark and if they think otherwise then they will always add a point or take one off to sway things the way they want them. And let's be honest Bruno giving a whole extra mark to Emma whenever he feels like it is not going to affect the entire world and will never solve the Middle East Crisis. And again the way the GBP is voting off good dancers every other week, Bruno, Len or whoever giving a boost to their favourite is hardly earth shattering.
The problem arises when you get the situation Len was in on Saturday having dolled out a number of 9s this year to then have to give Matt's waltz a 10 was a bit daft, good as it was I would hardly have called it perfect.
Mind with the increasingly noisy mob they have in I am surprised the whole lot of them don't give tens all round just to shut up the number of booers in the audience.
I'm quite keen to see the training footage as the I believe the CIN single gets released this week I would imagine Emma would be busier than ever so the training hours may be on a par with last week.
Tissy: I would imagine Brendan feels vindicated trouble is judging by the BBC poll he still doesn't seem that popular I would guess only a tiny proportion of the SCD viewers watch ITT - Another low score by the judges may see hi out on his ear!
Tissy: I would imagine Brendan feels vindicated trouble is judging by the BBC poll he still doesn't seem that popular I would guess only a tiny proportion of the SCD viewers watch ITT - Another low score by the judges may see hi out on his ear!
Originally Posted by Mumoftherat:
“No they are not. How can Craig, who goes first, compensate for marks others give after him. Each judge should give the marks they honestly feel the dance they see is worth, otherwise, why bother?”
“No they are not. How can Craig, who goes first, compensate for marks others give after him. Each judge should give the marks they honestly feel the dance they see is worth, otherwise, why bother?”
I think the judges are aware of what each are going to score beforehand from the piece of paper. Also if you notice, they have the paddle ready and don't have time to find another one if the scores are lower.
Originally Posted by Hamlet77:
“HOLD THE FRONT PAGE..... NOT.
Craig and Arelene have both said as much earlier this series, always under the 'we all look for different things' banner, whenever pressed as to why so and so got a mark spread of 4 between the judges.
IT is human nature to to 'support' something you like and being reasonably intelligient human beings and having worked with each other on SCD for four years they all know what Len or Craig is going to mark and if they think otherwise then they will always add a point or take one off to sway things the way they want them. And let's be honest Bruno giving a whole extra mark to Emma whenever he feels like it is not going to affect the entire world and will never solve the Middle East Crisis. And again the way the GBP is voting off good dancers every other week, Bruno, Len or whoever giving a boost to their favourite is hardly earth shattering.
The problem arises when you get the situation Len was in on Saturday having dolled out a number of 9s this year to then have to give Matt's waltz a 10 was a bit daft, good as it was I would hardly have called it perfect.
Mind with the increasingly noisy mob they have in I am surprised the whole lot of them don't give tens all round just to shut up the number of booers in the audience.”
“HOLD THE FRONT PAGE..... NOT.
Craig and Arelene have both said as much earlier this series, always under the 'we all look for different things' banner, whenever pressed as to why so and so got a mark spread of 4 between the judges.
IT is human nature to to 'support' something you like and being reasonably intelligient human beings and having worked with each other on SCD for four years they all know what Len or Craig is going to mark and if they think otherwise then they will always add a point or take one off to sway things the way they want them. And let's be honest Bruno giving a whole extra mark to Emma whenever he feels like it is not going to affect the entire world and will never solve the Middle East Crisis. And again the way the GBP is voting off good dancers every other week, Bruno, Len or whoever giving a boost to their favourite is hardly earth shattering.
The problem arises when you get the situation Len was in on Saturday having dolled out a number of 9s this year to then have to give Matt's waltz a 10 was a bit daft, good as it was I would hardly have called it perfect.
Mind with the increasingly noisy mob they have in I am surprised the whole lot of them don't give tens all round just to shut up the number of booers in the audience.”
With all due respect Hamlet....I don't think you are comparing like with like. This isn't about "what the judges are looking for" in respect to high or low marks...this is about giving high marks specifically to keep someone in irrespective of whether they have danced to a sufficient level to warrant the high mark. I have ALWAYS felt this about Bruno. In the past he would defend his overmarking by spouting some drivel about the performance (as opposed the actual poor technique) being so good. But FINALLY he has admitted to the real reason for his poor marking. It's pretty much common knowledge Len will never mark below 5 for a dance and in my opinion goes out of his way to reward Alpha Males who feel they lose masculinity by doing something as nancy as Ballroom dancing
Watched it last night and I am dissappointed.
For Bruno to say that he scored Emma high in order to compensate for the other scores, and thereby ensuring that she was not lower down the leader board, is unscrupulous.
Each judge should mark within their own field of expertise. If Len scored low, it would have been because of a lack of technical ability. There wasn't a lot of Cha Cha going on, just wriggling and pouting for most of it. Performance-wise, yes Emma did 'sell it'.
A few people have commented that this sort of marking goes on all the time. Lets not get into how the scoring goes in real competition. It doesn't. In a real competition none fo the judges know how the others have scored, so each scores according to his/her internal benchmark. Mind you, favouritism is rife but no judge scores higher to compensate for lower marks given elsewhere. Only on TV when one judge decided he's going to try to show another judge up and get the audience on-side, does this sort of thing happen.
In my opinion, Bruno didn't do it for Emma's sake, he did it because he wanted to be the one who got the audience cheering - he wanted to be the nice judge on the night, rather than the objective judge.
For Bruno to say that he scored Emma high in order to compensate for the other scores, and thereby ensuring that she was not lower down the leader board, is unscrupulous.
Each judge should mark within their own field of expertise. If Len scored low, it would have been because of a lack of technical ability. There wasn't a lot of Cha Cha going on, just wriggling and pouting for most of it. Performance-wise, yes Emma did 'sell it'.
A few people have commented that this sort of marking goes on all the time. Lets not get into how the scoring goes in real competition. It doesn't. In a real competition none fo the judges know how the others have scored, so each scores according to his/her internal benchmark. Mind you, favouritism is rife but no judge scores higher to compensate for lower marks given elsewhere. Only on TV when one judge decided he's going to try to show another judge up and get the audience on-side, does this sort of thing happen.
In my opinion, Bruno didn't do it for Emma's sake, he did it because he wanted to be the one who got the audience cheering - he wanted to be the nice judge on the night, rather than the objective judge.
Originally Posted by dippydozy:
“I'm quite keen to see the training footage as the I believe the CIN single gets released this week I would imagine Emma would be busier than ever so the training hours may be on a par with last week.
Tissy: I would imagine Brendan feels vindicated trouble is judging by the BBC poll he still doesn't seem that popular I would guess only a tiny proportion of the SCD viewers watch ITT - Another low score by the judges may see hi out on his ear!”
“I'm quite keen to see the training footage as the I believe the CIN single gets released this week I would imagine Emma would be busier than ever so the training hours may be on a par with last week.
Tissy: I would imagine Brendan feels vindicated trouble is judging by the BBC poll he still doesn't seem that popular I would guess only a tiny proportion of the SCD viewers watch ITT - Another low score by the judges may see hi out on his ear!”
in the papers reporting chart positions this last weekend Downtown went in the charts at the 24th position
Originally Posted by Hamlet77:
“HOLD THE FRONT PAGE..... NOT.
Craig and Arelene have both said as much earlier this series, always under the 'we all look for different things' banner, whenever pressed as to why so and so got a mark spread of 4 between the judges.
IT is human nature to to 'support' something you like and being reasonably intelligient human beings and having worked with each other on SCD for four years they all know what Len or Craig is going to mark and if they think otherwise then they will always add a point or take one off to sway things the way they want them. And let's be honest Bruno giving a whole extra mark to Emma whenever he feels like it is not going to affect the entire world and will never solve the Middle East Crisis. And again the way the GBP is voting off good dancers every other week, Bruno, Len or whoever giving a boost to their favourite is hardly earth shattering.
The problem arises when you get the situation Len was in on Saturday having dolled out a number of 9s this year to then have to give Matt's waltz a 10 was a bit daft, good as it was I would hardly have called it perfect.
Mind with the increasingly noisy mob they have in I am surprised the whole lot of them don't give tens all round just to shut up the number of booers in the audience.”
“HOLD THE FRONT PAGE..... NOT.
Craig and Arelene have both said as much earlier this series, always under the 'we all look for different things' banner, whenever pressed as to why so and so got a mark spread of 4 between the judges.
IT is human nature to to 'support' something you like and being reasonably intelligient human beings and having worked with each other on SCD for four years they all know what Len or Craig is going to mark and if they think otherwise then they will always add a point or take one off to sway things the way they want them. And let's be honest Bruno giving a whole extra mark to Emma whenever he feels like it is not going to affect the entire world and will never solve the Middle East Crisis. And again the way the GBP is voting off good dancers every other week, Bruno, Len or whoever giving a boost to their favourite is hardly earth shattering.
The problem arises when you get the situation Len was in on Saturday having dolled out a number of 9s this year to then have to give Matt's waltz a 10 was a bit daft, good as it was I would hardly have called it perfect.
Mind with the increasingly noisy mob they have in I am surprised the whole lot of them don't give tens all round just to shut up the number of booers in the audience.”
What are you on about now
Perspective please
Originally Posted by slappers r us:
“in the papers reporting chart positions this last weekend Downtown went in the charts at the 24th position”
“in the papers reporting chart positions this last weekend Downtown went in the charts at the 24th position”
Ouch! that would be a surprise was expecting it to do better than that!
I do think it's awful though!!
It is quite ironic that it is the judge who seemed most offended by Brendan's criticism and still held a grudge the following week, is the one who admitted that he was doing exactly what Brendan said - not really marking the performance but the performer. It was not a wise thing to say but nice for Brendan to get some confirmation of his suspicions.
Originally Posted by dippydozy:
“Ouch! that would be a surprise was expecting it to do better than that!
I do think it's awful though!!”
“Ouch! that would be a surprise was expecting it to do better than that!
I do think it's awful though!!”
If the single is being released this week, I suspect that chart position has been achieved through downloads only which is quite respectable. Once actual sales have been added, I see the single making the top 10 easily
Last edited by pretty : 21-11-2006 at 13:57
Originally Posted by pretty:
“If the single is being released this week, I suspect that chart position has been achieved through downloads only which is quite respectible. Once actual sales have been added, I see the single making the top 10 easily”
“If the single is being released this week, I suspect that chart position has been achieved through downloads only which is quite respectible. Once actual sales have been added, I see the single making the top 10 easily
”
That would be more in line with what I was expecting, I nominate No. 6
Originally Posted by luckyforest:
“The trouble is he doesn't do this to everyone, only those he wants to help. If this is not bias, what is it?
Besides, what authority he has to compensate other judges' scores?”
“The trouble is he doesn't do this to everyone, only those he wants to help. If this is not bias, what is it?
Besides, what authority he has to compensate other judges' scores?”
Bruno has given out more points than any other judge.
He's scores are nearly always equal highest or a point higher than the other judges.
The only two occasions I can find where Bruno's scores may have shown a definite preference not shown by other judges were:
a) Louise's foxtrot
b) Emma's cha cha.
Edited:
I'm not sure if its been discussed but after watching Emma's performance and giving it a 9 - where was Bruno going to go with his marks after that - as Emma went first it gave him nowhere to go. This is why it felt like pre-determined bias rather than just balancing up the judges marks.
Last edited by gritty : 21-11-2006 at 14:17
Originally Posted by gritty:
“Edited:
I'm not sure if its been discussed but after watching Emma's performance and giving it a 9 - where was Bruno going to go with his marks after that - as Emma went first it gave him nowhere to go. This is why it felt like pre-determined bias rather than just balancing up the judges marks.”
“Edited:
I'm not sure if its been discussed but after watching Emma's performance and giving it a 9 - where was Bruno going to go with his marks after that - as Emma went first it gave him nowhere to go. This is why it felt like pre-determined bias rather than just balancing up the judges marks.”
I wondered that too !
Matt and Louisa both put in better performances than Emma but scored the same
Shows him up for a complete idiot I`m afraid.
It just goes to show Brendan was right about the judges
It really does smack of favoritisim of the worst kind
It really does smack of favoritisim of the worst kind
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