Good evening fellow jungilists...

When I say strong, I don't mean as in Phina biting and fighting Scott the Plonker.

I recently posted a response to another poster, describing Myleene as a 'strong' woman...

When it occurred to me, that despite other claims by the Western world media/politicians, we still don't live in a truly 'equal' society, gender-wise.

Taking this on board, could it be argued for any woman to succeed in life, career, home, self analysis etc... she would have to be 'strong'.... and myabe just to cope with everyday life, all women have to be 'strong'?

Are most 'weak' men 'helped' and/or 'improved' by women, whilst most 'weak' women are subjugated and/or abused (emotionally, physically, pyschologically etc.) by men and other women?

Are ALL female reality TV show contestants 'stong'? ...and because of this do some women in overcompensate a la Grace, Makosi, Jordan and Phina?
Last edited by SWW (SWW) : 25-11-2006 at 22:55

I think strong does not always mean 'as in physical strength'. To me it means strength of character as in - Carol Thatcher, Jennie Bond and Janet Street Porter, who did not use their feminine wiles to further their position (so to speak!).

Perhaps that's because they don't have any

Grace from BB was far from a strong woman in my opinion. I agree with the others names.

They dont need them - they are strong enough

Good eveing redcherry

I didn't mean to put across that I meant physical strength.

Could it be said that women that 'successfully' and 'self-morally correct' use their feminine wiles to further their needs and ambitions are also 'strong' women, by just using the 'system' that is already perdominant and securely in place?

Regards

Evening SWW! I was thinking more of Jan using her poor little girl act, crying to the boys to gain sympathy, and acting selfish 'cos she's a girly'. I realise she is not all bad, and that others have different views of her, but imo, she is manipulative and sly.

I agree, I love Carol and Jennie.

Good thread topic SWW.

I think Phina is definitely coming across or trying to be the alpha female. Not sure if it's bad editing but they are making her out to be an utter bitch and yet she probably has the mindset of the strongest will survive and doing everything in her power to not let anyone walk over her.

I really started to dislike her tonight but then when I think about it, ITV want us to think of her as the baddie. I think she she deserves respect for fighting tooth and nail to survive and overpower her male and female contestants...but I still don't like the bitching or backstabbing.

She's not to be messed with that's for sure, and I think she's managed to convey that message across to the others. However her overpowering personality could be her downfall.

Whereas in contrast, Mylene is quietly confident and probably just as strong minded without having to go all out to prove it.
Last edited by JTW : 25-11-2006 at 23:08

That is indeed the case, I would agree... but I really feel that she is a product of her age, class and work sector.

I know I sound like an apologist, but despite protestations otherwise on other threads, I feel that the 'world' in which Jan grew up, produced women such as Jan, as well as 'stronger' types.

She is in her 60s... I feel that most people become more stuck in their views and they become less pliable to 'change' as they get older.

Regards

Yes, I see what you mean, although Jennie, Carol and Janet are all in their 60s arent they? Even Faith was the same age. I dont take into account ages though on this show, as that immediately puts some at an advantage. I judge them on their behaviour (as shown to us on edits!) and how they interract with others.

Hey you... good evening again JTW

I would tend to agree, I feel that as a result of her life experience Phina is probably now over compensating in everyday and 'reality TV' life.

There is a stereotypical idea of a Black women being 'hard' 'strong' 'tough' etc... and indeed I feel it is because, as I said in the my OP, that women have to be strong to survive and that if you couple that with being 'non-white' it could be argued that soem non-white women would have to be overtly 'strong' to survive, not only because of gender and racial inequality, but also because of the problems caused by their fellow 'disenfranchised' men of their common racial group.

I hasten to add that I am not racially stereotyping, but alluding to the fact that whether the 'PC brigade' like it or not, a sizeable number of the non-white female reality TV contestants come across as 'tough'... although nowhere near so much in the under 21 non-whote females in the limelight at present.

Regards to all.

I see you're also a Grace apologist and have excused her behaviour using similar reasonings. That can't be right

when phina tonight said she was taking jan's bed because " I cricked my neck winning food for this camp " she wasn't being strong.

she was being aggressive. she didn't win the food for the camp tonight, there were THREE of them on that task.

And you name me one contestant who has come back into camp claiming priviliges like that on the basis of voluntarily doing a trial.

Strong women - YES. Aggressive, greedy, treacherous women - NO.

Jan.

.......

Good evening electra123

I agree with you and the adjectives that you used... but feel that she is overcompensating and thinking too much about situations, striking back (in her mind) disproportionately to the cause.

Regards

jan hasn't volunteered to do a trial. but i get your point.

the two "strong" women are only "strong" for themselves.

true strong women are strong for everyone.

Jan didn't have to do any of the trials though

Anyway, I agree with you when you say "true strong women are strong for everyone"

Hi Komol,


...but aren't many of us a product of how we were nurtured and by our peers... ie Grace?

I say apologist in the context of reality TV forums, but I actually believe it... why would somebody, anybody purposefully act 'bad' when they know they are being watched by millions?

If anything, at least they let their masks slip unlike the more media savvy contestants like Gesty, BB Pete, Jordan, Tony Blackburn etc?

Surely there must be cause and reason and we are not solely and explicitly judging contestants on 45 minutes of selected ITV highlights.

Regards

In which case, thesame rules applies for everyone including the "weak" characters.

absolutement Komol...

...but in generally the 'weak' characters, especially the male ones are shown empathy by some viewers, whilst it could be argued that they same reaction has rarely been directed at 'weak' female contestants?

Regards

I think Jan knows exactly what she is doing. She is media savvy despite her age. She knows all reality tv shows love a baddie.

Are you serious

To some, Scott is the most hated RTV contestant ever

'Weak' as in emotionally/mentally/character/personality venerable... 'strong' and 'weak' are not being used in the context of physical strength.

Regards

I'm lost now

Are you suggesting that Scott may have been a mentally strong person? Even if he thinks he is, I personally don't think so!