It works - it is priced well - what more do you need? Most of the "argument" in the "+" vs "-" for DVD Recorders is by people who get excited by things that normal human beings don't find exciting.

Joe Public dont care what its called or whether its one of t'oher as long as it work. This thread is about whether Philips ones do... the modern ones do and I would gather the older ones don't (very well).

End of story...

It does work and it is well priced.But I think its right to point out to people that for a bit more cash they could buy a far better product.Ok,Joe Public may just want a watch and wipe replacement for the vcr(which Sky+ does better than any format),but for W&W I think -RW is a better value deal as the extra you pay gets you a hell of a lot.A lot of those extra features will be of zero interest to some,but there is no harm in an informed debate about the pros and cons of both formats.People on here look for information regarding products before purchasing and its right to show them how the cheapest is not necessarily the best one for them.A lot may not even be aware of some of the things possible with more sophisticated recorders.
However,the "major problems" part of the thread title is a bit out of date now and could do with removing

I'd be more inclined to believe if I saw you had a +RW product and said -RW or RAM was better....

Read my posts properly and you will see that my first dvd recorder was a Philips DVD+ machine.I have experienced all dvdr systems and so I am able to compare them.Can you?

Since posting my last messages about the DVDR1000 recorder and it's problems, I can now report that, having returned the unit to 'Service Care' - Philips out of warrantee repair centre, the unit is basically 'scrapped'. The service centre quoted me £203.03 to replace the engine and the IC but would not give me any assurance that parting with that amount of money would ensure the problems experienced on that and previous models, 3 in all, would be corrected and never experienced again! After pushing to get some assurance before arriving at a decision, I was finally told that 'the engineer advises that it is not worth paying out that sort of money and I would be better scrapping it and buying another model! To top that, it would then cost me a further £50 to get the non-working unit back. In a way, although not admitting to the Model in question having a known problem (Philips seem the only people not to be aware of one!) the engineer basically confirmed what I expected all along. Regardless of any advances Philips may have made since the introduction of the very first recorder, they have done themselves no service in the way they have handled this problem since first reported back in 2001. They will never see my shadow on their doorstep again!

*sigh*

Update the firmware to the latest version , make sure the disc is clean and things are pretty damn good. I have an Lx9000R and it's a damn good machine.

A DVD+R or +RW is sensitive to fingerprints. Look after the discs and there will be no problems.

Hi,

I bought a new Philips DVDR70 with so much hopes and expectations.. But I was shattered to find that whenever I insert a DVD / VCD into the tray and push it back in, it says Reading for about 30 seconds and then says NO DISC.

Has anyone faced similar situations?

PS: I can't take it back to the dealer as I've moved to a different country. Any other suggestions please?

Thank you for your time.

Cheers,
Kannada.

Seems that somewhere along the line, someone is goiung to mis-read the original message and make the wrong assumption. It was clearly stated that the problem lay with the DVDR1000 Model and was also clearly stated that the dislike of Philips was to their customer care and after sales, not there current equipment!

Finaly, unlike a lot of rented DVD's which are rather badly handled by many that rent them leaving them covered in fingerprints, all my personal DVD's are newly purchased and in pristine condition.

There is absolutely no problem with the software running the recorder as far as the latest version was concerned as Philips provided a disc to update that. The problem with Philips is that they cannot find the honesty to admit that they have/had a problem with that model and even offer some guarantee that parting with a not small amount of money to have the engine and the IC replaced would cure the problem experienced. I stand by what I said in that Philips customer care is sadly lacking!
Last edited by digichat : 16-05-2004 at 21:36

Hi Kannada - It seems that you are experiencing the same reading problems that were inherent in the DVDR1000 model that first came out. I never could get any kind of answer from Philips as they were not prepared to admit they had any problem and just kept denying that there were any known problems with the readability of the discs. The engineer at Philips service who has just had a look at my DVDR1000 model basically told me it wasn't worth paying the money required to repair it and I would be better of ditching it and buying a new model. The original cost me over £750 and was the 3rd Unit I had been given, having had the same problems with all 2 previous models supplied. They were only prepared to offer a 3-month guarantee on the repair and would not give me any asssurance that this would cure the readability problem I had experienced on this, and the two models before that!

I have just replaced the unit with a Sony RDRGX7 and am quite impressed so far! It does what it says it will do (so far) - unlike my now departed Philips!

I assume that your Model in question is a Region 2 if purchased in this country and that you are not attempting to read other region discs!

Finaly, when my old model was under guarantee, Philips still didn't want to know and kept referring me back to the dealer from where it was purchased. The dealer got pretty ticked off in the end and the last offer, which I declined, was to give me a Panasonic model instead, which was all that was available at the time (2001).

Wish you luck but don't hold out much hope for Philips customer care!

Unfortunately ,as shown by the new What Video,which sets aside 2 complete pages of readers problems with current Philips models,it seems that there are just too many people out there with Philips bodge jobs.
Unless you are on a very tight budget,go for a machine from a manufacturer with a good track record and avoid Philips heaps at all costs.Even forgetting the reliability issue,the machines from other makes are superior in every way

How's this then?

I have a -RAM recorder and a +RW recorder. I hate the MiCO (a Philips clone) with a vengeance. It's user interface is lamentable.

I have no particular axe to grind against the +R format, but it pains me when people actually recommend these awful Philips recorders.

I actually had a conversation with my boss the other day in which I unsuccessfully tried to convince him that the Japanese recorders and even the cheap LG would be better bets for reliability and functionality than the Philips. Didn't work. Still, he bought another Grundig TV after his first only lasted 4 years so I give up with the man

The fact that you refer to the Mico as a "Philips clone" tells everyone how little you know about these recorders.

All DVDR menus are crap, granted some are a (lot) worse than others, but you get what you pay for. Anyone serious about good menus will do it on the PC.

--Loob.

Given my recent experience(s) with Philips DVDR and having now gone down the SONY road, so far, although I have yet to fully test the functionality of the GXR7 Model, I am quite impressed. It has a great deal of functionality and apparently, although not yet tried due to time restraint, a good iLink connection for Home DVD recording, the main function it was purchased for. It is a 'nice' looking machine with about half the profile of the original Philips DVDR1000 and so far has shown itself to be very functional and capable. Time will tell, however, having done some research and having experienced other SONY equipment, AV Theatre Sound amp and speakers, Mega CD player, old fashioned turntable and DV Camera, not withstanding the price, especially for add-ons and accessories, quality and functionality is not in question. Anyone else experienced the GRX7 DVD recorder?

I am not talking about the DVD menus. I'm talking about the overall user interface.

And it is a Philips clone. It's UI is pretty much identical to the 880 and the 70 I've also used. The chipset is the same, the loader is the same and the software is very similar. OK it's a bit cut down, and it doesn't look as "pretty" but that's about it.

Just like to say that my Philips DVDR 70 has worked faultlessly since purchase last September. I've burnt hundreds of discs and can say it's an excellent machine. More interestingly is that I just got a Pioneer 107 dvd burner for the pc. It came with a load of datawrite DVD- discs so I took a dvd+RW disc with some stuff from the TV. Edited it on the pc and burnt it back to DVD-. The disc plays perfectly of course on the Philips but would not play on my kids cheapo Alba DVD player, very confusing. I tried another DVD- disc recorded on a Panny by a friend and that wouldn't play on the Alba either. However all DVD +R and +RW play on the Alba fine which is great because that is why I bought the Philips in the first place (compatibility). So for me the Philips gets a big thums up and DVD- gets an even bigger thums down. Just my experience of course but I'm sure there are many other Philips owners out there with the latest generation machines that have no problems what so ever. (were not talking about the 880 series which we all know were naff!).

The new Philips HDD/DVD+R/RW machine should also be a fantastic machine. Funny how many of the Panny die hards said that DVD+ couldn't be coupled with a HDD and gave all sorts of "reasons" why it wouldn't work! For some reason the Panny (Pioneer) owners see the need to continuly slag off DVD+ and Philips in particular. I would suggest that readers of this thread ensure they get a balanced and objective view of what is available. ( and Phelings don't bother to mention that you used to own a DVDR1000 'cos it's not relevant!)

Don't forget that the biggest single factor in DVDR/W compatability is the quality of the disk, not the format. As your average (if there is such a thing) DVD+R is (or at least has been, until recently when a lot of Bulkpaq DVD+ disks started appearing ) of a higher quality than DVD-R you get better reflectivity and therefore more chance it will play on some cheap players which are "marginal".

Over to the DVD- fanboys for some flaming.

--Loob.

Spider,where have you been?
No,I won't mention the fact that I once had a dvdr 1000,mainly because I didn't-it was the 880.
In all the dozens and dozens of players I have tested,Alba is the only one to play DVD+ and not DVD-.Compatibility was the complete lie that opened up the market for Philips.However,although tests have shown that overall DVD- IS the more compatible,I think most modern players now make compatibility between + and - a moot point.
Yes Spider,you have burnt hundreds of discs without problems,and nobody is suggesting that the 70 is anywhere near the base of the barrel as the 880/890.But,the fact remains,apart from problems with cheapo blanks,there is nothing problematic with a DVD- recorder on the scale of Philips,even new ones(see What Video this month).
For once ,Loob,we agree.I think most playback problems,cetainly on modern players,is down to a lot of people paying 50p per blank,then moaning about problems.However,I do think that the printable white top discs cause more problems than those without it.
Finally Spider,the DVD- users who have sampled a DVD+ machine for normal daily use,like to point out to upcoming dvdr buyers the mistake they are making by going for a Philips machine.Regardless of the limitations of DVD+,the general functionality,response time and user friendliness of Pioneer and Pansonic is far better than the Dutch mob

Hmmm. Distortion of the truth seems to be a hobby for +RW fanboys

The only reasons there have been more duff -R discs than +R is (1) the format has been out longer, and (2) Philips go after **unlicenced** producers more proactively than Pioneer.

For info, Princo and Infosmart (/AN31/AN35 -R and MEDIAID001 +R) is unlicenced, and therefore it's hardly surprising that there are problems with this media.

Compare a Taiyo Yuden DVD+R with a TY DVD-R and I'd be very surprised if overall one was any more or less compatible than the other.

As for spider's conclusion that -R is less compatible based on a couple of discs, which he doesn't give the brands of, one of which is recorded with the Panasonic recorder which doesn't follow the standards 100%, hmmm. Frankly if you want to be taken in any way seriously spider you need to come out with something a little less skewed than that!!!

I could say that the +R discs the Philips produces don't work with my LG player, or the Toshiba. Therefore +R compatibility is poor. Equally fatuous, I'm sure you'll agree.

Just one other thing spider, try copying that DVD+RW onto a DVD+R using the Pioneer and play back on the Alba. I'm not 100% sure but I suspect that disc won't work either. A friend of mine has two "identical" Alba DVD players bought at Argos. One works with DVD-R only, the other only with a bit-set DVD+R, which is most odd. I suspect the factory is chopping and changing loader models and/or firmware. If it was up to me I'd have had them in bits by now to see what's up (and to have a bit play). Most of these cheapo players have for all intents and purposes standard IDE drives in them which can be updated.

I've been hiding away in a number of far flung places, Phelings, playing with proper technology. Still it's nice to be back home again.

Jase1, my comments a couple of posts back were intended to rattle my old sparring partner, Phelings' cage. If you read my previous posts on this site and on AVforums you'll see my position clearly laid out. I like to provide a more balanced view of the DVD recording formats and try to reassure our avid readers that it's not really all doom amd gloom. Maybe I'm just lucky but technology seem to work for me. I don't seem to suffer from all the Sky+ problems or DVD issues that, if you believe these forums, plague everyone else. Now possibly it's because I actually know how to use the kit and don't have expectations beyond it's capability or as I said maybe I'm just lucky!

My example of my Alba and DVD-R is simply given to show that their are issues with DVD-. The disks used by the way were Datasafe 8X speed and Fujifilm 1X speed. Not cheap discs! I don't actually believe dvd- is less or more compatible i just make the statement to wind you lot up and as usual you fall for it.

At the time when I bought the Philips I wanted compatibility in a re-writable format (still do) and only Philips offered that. We debated the pointlessness of RAM at length then and my views are still the same. HDD/DVDR was and still is the way forward and that's why it's good to finally see the Philips model. Mind you I predicted the DVD+/HDD models many many months ago and got slagged by the DVD- camp, including Phelings, saying it wasn't possible!

The simple fact is that all DVD recorders are fantastic bits of kit. You only have to read the reviews to realise that performance of all the recorders is excellent. There are plenty of reviews which put the Philips ahead of the Panny E50 just as there are reviews which put it the other way round. Each has it's merits and failings. For me I would have been dissappointed with a Panasonic machine becasue it would not have met my needs. Any prospective buyer should ensure they have thought about what they need and evaluate each model against their key criteria. You will find that there are thousands of satisfied Philips owners out their who, if they read this thread, would wonder what all the fuss is about.

And the idea that all Philips products are rubbish and likely to fail is simply crap (bar the 880 series which we all know had a design fault). I work in an industry that uses hundreds of different pieces of Philips AV kit on a daily basis and their quality and reliability is second to none, otherwise we would't buy them!!

Spider ,you've mellowed.
The reason this thread is here is down to the 880/890 but there are still some not so drastic problems with the latest models too.
I found that LG would not play + or - .
Surely Spidey,(don't mind if I call you Spidey do you?)now that the rewritable /compatible DVD-RW is here from Pioneer,you would rather have a Pioneer piece of kit than a Philips.Despite your equipment at work,I think Pioneer has a better reputation than Philips.
I must be unlucky,but aside from a mobile phone,every piece of Philips equipment from the past 24 years,Vacuum Cleaner,Iron,Washing Machine,Shaver,Vcr's,tv's etc have either been unreliable or just awful to use.

I think you have been unlucky phelings. I've had very little trouble from Philips kit in the past, but they tend to be a bit quirky and the interfaces on just about all Philips items are in the love'em or hate'em category. Unfortunately, I just don't get on with Philips' UI on their DVD recorders. Now the Yamada and LiteOn kit I've tried, have been just fine. A bit limited next to some others but sensibly laid out and straightforward to use.

As for reliability, as I say I've had little trouble from Philips but I have come to the conclusion that the Japanese majors do have the slight edge over Philips in the main, Pioneer included. I'd put Philips in the same category as second-tier Japanese brands like Hitachi and Sanyo (which is no bad thing IMHO), but behind Panasonic, Sony, Pioneer, JVC, Sharp etc.

Just don't get me started on $%@* Thomson whatever you do.....

I think this whole technolgy is running before it can walk. CD buring 10 years ago was just as difficult, and prone to error, and caused the creation of as many coasters.
To burn a 5gb or 10 gb disk (when and if) you sort of need 2000gb with 2k Ram machine to drive it.
None of the current technolgy is at theat level yet, and let's be honest, when it is, you'll probably be able to wi-fi straight from a media centre straight to the telly, and upload straight from the PVR, to the media centre. (A la Ipod/ MP101). Bypassing the need to permanently store, on seprate media. And using better compression than Mpeg/MP3
And as DVD-R +R -RW +RW, are all so expensive and flakey, all these stand alone burners are really more trouble thean they are worth.

My advice stick with the PVR, DVD and Video and buy a high end media centre with super fast wi-fi in about a year.

I see I need to catch up on this thread.


These points are irrelevant. I am (of course) not talking about sheer numbers of individual disks, rather a proportion of the ones available at any given time. How long DVD-R has been going makes no difference. The fact is that high-quality DVD-R media makes up a significanly lower proportion of the whole than can be said for DVD+R. It's for people to use their brain and not pay 25p for a disk, of either format. If they do and they are flaky then that's their fault.

If Pioneer choose not to be as "aggressive" chasing unlicensed media makers then that's up to them. In fact this is a point in support of my argument, not against it.


This is obviously a case of your glass being half empty, not half full. Once your opinion of a manufacturer becomes soured (such as if a DVD recorder fails?), suddenly everything you've ever bought from them is crap. You obviously didn't feel that there were problems with all the rest of the kit all the time, otherwise it wouldn't have taken you 24 years to stop buying their stuff, would it? Or are you just that dumb? I don't think you are.


Hmmm...I wouldn't disagree with you (I wouldn't agree either though) that Pioneer and Sony are possibly ahead of Philips, possibly even Panasonic, but JVC and Sharp? Come on. They have been turning out utter garbage for the past 15 years. If people on here want to call Philips stuff "cheap" they have to include JVC and Sharp in that bracket also.

--Loob.

Hmmm. I honestly don't know where JVC came from, I'm pretty sure I meant Toshiba -- I'm not fussed on JVC either. But Sharp kit is consistently rated highly in reliability studies, I've never had any trouble with Sharp kit and both of the repair shops I have used recently have listed Sharp as a reliable brand so I personally think you need to reconsider that viewpoint.

Regardless though, you said that Philips AV kit was "second to none". But you're now admitting that Sony/Pioneer/Panasonic *might* be better than Philips. These two just don't tally.

As for the cheap DVD-R media, well all I can say is that in the US, Longten, Nan-Ya, InfoSmart, Princo etc etc DVD+R media is as rife as Longten, Princo, Yi-Jhan etc etc DVD-R is here. Philips go after these companies in Europe, but in the States it's a different story.

Besides, cost for cost, it's still easier to buy decent DVD-R media cheaply than DVD+R. For example, Ritek G03 is only around £7 for a spindle of 25 (2x only but for a standalone that's sufficient). Even the high quality G04 is only around £8-9. Show me a DVD+R disc for that sort of money that comes *anywhere near* the quality of a G04. The *only* DVD+R I've seen under £10 is Bulkpaq (Infosmart, unlicensed) at £8 a pack, and that is equivalent quality to the £5/pack DVD-R.

I've got an E50 and a Mico. I was happy enough with the E50 and read all the posts about Philips unreliability, cheap recorders that don't have RGB in and so on. When my vcr conked out, I bought a cheapo Mico as a replacement, despite the one lukewarm review that I read and the fact that itdoesn't have RGB in.

I have to say I've had no problems with the Mico at all. The recording and playback is excellent. Even LP is good. In fact I've noticed more artifacting with the E50. And I haven't had one faulty disc with the Mico, seven or eight with the E50. I know the Mico is Philips based, but I still think it's a good, though basic machine. Maybe I've been lucky. Then again, Japanese quality control is much better than most, so maybe that's a part of the problem.