My comment about DVD-RAM being dead was based on the fact that stores that sold them in the past no longer do (e.g. dabs, last time I checked), a few places I found that do sell them the price has actually gone up (not a good sign), the vast majority of new PC DVD drives being released now are -/+RW, and of course you have the woeful compatibility. As for it being cheap - there are plenty of cheaper options for archiving (DVD-R being one), and as for it being 'widely used' - I guess it depends on your experience, it certainly isn't in mine.

Out of the three rewritable formats currently available, it's not hard to see which is going to be the first to disappear. Besides, even if DVD-RAM is more widespread that I believe it is, why would you want to use it for digital video? It's clearly not well suited to it (for compatibility and standardisation reasons alone).

My comments on the E30 were based solely on the feedback at vcdhelp.com, which I have found reliable in the past. Don't blame me, it's other users of the E30 that say there are problems with it. Maybe you've just been lucky malcom, as users with working Philips recorders are apparently as well.

The volume of firmare updates (esp. given this is a non-PC product) so far would, I agree, suggest that Philips rushed out the product (DVDR1000) to ensure +RW didn't get beaten to the mark by -RW. It would also explain why others in the 'alliance' haven't yet released their recorders (e.g. Sony for one), as they're waiting for the technology to fully mature.

Anyway, I've put off my purchase until mid February for the moment so I'd be interested in anyone elses suggestions for what DVD Recorder to buy. Price is certainly a factor and no DVD-RAM please
Last edited by XTCrefugee : 25-01-2003 at 19:26

I used to believe in Philips products just like you XTCrefugee. When DVD recorders were first muted I would have said exactly the same thing s as you. However, I now realise how misguided my loyalty was.

In answer to a few of your points....

The availability of DVD-RAM recorders is now far greater than when I purchased mine a couple of months before christmas... don't know about online but every retail outlet where you would expect to see them has had them in stock when I have been in.

The prices are now approx £100 lower than they were before christmas and are competative with Philips DVD+RW machines (ie £350-£430)

Regarding DVD-R being a cheaper option to archive on.... DVD-RAM also records on DVD-R and this is far more compatible than DVD+RW (which current indications are that DVD+RW is around 85% compatible)

Why use it for digital video? I am not technical enough to support this point but all I can say from experience is that, well, it supports far more functions than DVD+RW can manage at the moment regardless of brand name and the quality and reliability of the recordings have been faultless. Oh! and you can get 9.4Gb discs for up to 12 hours recording (althought to retain recording quality the maximum recording time is realistically 4 / 8 hours on 4.7Gb / 9.4 Gb.

yes i bought i computer with philips dvd+rw and paid 500$extra. it sometimes frezes during copying process and restarts the machine and one time i have to format my hdd and have to intall windows again.will they change the broken ones?

My philips 890 is being picked up tuesday having it changed for the panny E30,so hopefully no troubles ahead for me.

Most interesting to read all of your comments concerning the recorders.
I bought the Philips DVDR890 recorder in December 2002 here in Switzerland. It’s a fantastic machine, just what I need as a successor to those clumsy VHS tapes.
The product works fine using DVD+RW media. However, with DVD+R media I always get a disc error after short periods of recording time.
After contacting Philips support they have (loyally?) advised me to try using their own DVD+R discs which I haven’t managed to find yet. It was then that I decided to look on the forums.......
It seems as though Philips have quite a bit to learn in terms of the quality of their support.!

This is exactly what is making us mad.

Gavin

yoda2691 Are you not aware of the Multi drives that support RAM/RW/-R. These are being adopted by most computer builders. Look through a comp mag and try and find support for the plus format and then look at those selling -R and RAM drives. The message is clear. Apart from, DELL the plus format is doomed as was the old Philips VHS system was which I am old enough to remember. "Unfortunately"

It is early days with regard to DVD recorders and RAM is a long long way from being dead in the water. To summarise..The new Multi drives are RAM supported. several main manufactures are supporting the RAM format and producing many choices for the consumer with or without hard drive. New DVD players from Panasonic and others will be RAM compatible.

As for looking what suplier have at any one time. That may not be indication of failure of a product but an indication they have sold out of a popular item or the manufacturer cannot supply due to demand.
Now look at the Philips plus format. What choice of manufaturer do you have for them!!!. Where are the Thomson machines who are said to be plus format supporters. Where are the Sony plus format set top recorders, another company claiming support for +RW. When it comes to +RW the public just do not have a healthy choice of makers. Why oh why in the name of sanity should computers be lumbered with linear recording technology!! Now that is or soon will be and indeed deserves to be totaly dead in the water.

Sorry I am a bit hot under the collar but there is so much foolish and ill informed anti propaganda about the RAM format that it makes me want to spit. I feel better now, So bare with me.....

Hi Malcom

Sorry if I have got this wrong but I fully support DVD-RAM but your last posting gives me the impression that you think I prefer the +RW format which I don't.... I agree totally with the comments you make and raised a point that occured to me earlier... what has happen to all the other manufacturers who were adopting the +RW format.... are they simply waiting for the format to mature or are they having second thoughts!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, as I have said before, as long as the machine is reliable and does the job YOU want, then by the time it wants replacing then there will probably be another format that has superceeded these anyway and at least any format plays commercially made discs so is it really a problem?

So sorry yoda2691 I addressed my coments to the wrong name. They were intended for XTCrefugee . Regards. Malcom.

OK, this thread seems to have strayed into the ever popular DVD format wars, but I'll just respond to that last post

A quick head count at dabs.com (who are usually pretty up to date with the latest stuff) shows the following PC drives:

7 DVD+R(W) drives
7 DVD-R(W) drives
3 DVD-R(W)/DVD-RAM drives
2 DVD-R(W)/+R(W) drives

I'd hardly say the + format is 'doomed' from that. But with only 3 out of 19 recorders supporting DVD-RAM, I think this supports my point. Argos aren't exactly known for PC bits (even though Jungle.com claim to have merged with them), but on their web site they only sell a DVD+RW drive - no other DVD writers at all. At the moment, only 1 out of the 6 drives Amazon sells supports DVD-RAM - and and it isn't a dual format one, the dual one they have only supports +RW/-RW. I didn't pick these results out on purpose - this was just a quick look at some of my bookmarked sites, so I think this is a pretty fair assessment.

They do now actually have some DVD-RAM discs in stock at dabs - only Panasonic though, so so much for choice of manufacturers - at £14 for the 4.7 Gig cartridge variety and £17 for non-cartridge. Not exactly cheap even when compared with +RW discs. Oh, and +RW isn't a linear format - it's as flexible as -RW on PCs, it's restricted by the standalone players on purpose so that it's still compatible with the DVD-Video standard which is pretty sensible if you ask me.

Just to respond to yoda's post - if you have a look here you'll see models announced by Sony, Thomson, MET, Apex, Mustek, Daewoo, as well as new Philips models. Not exactly a guarantee I know, but I don't think there's any reason to expect these manufacturers to back out just yet.

For me, the 'format war' is a mute point - I need +R(W) as it's the only format compatible with both my standalone player and PC drives.

You and I will never agree on this subject. But never mind let's slog on for the hell of it.... From the list you gave from Dabs. The plus format is clearly in the minority. Can you give me a list of computer manufactures that have adopted the plus drives.!!!! as standard. I would be interested to know from you or anyone of such. I think I know of two.. Dell and the other whose name eludes me for the moment.

You will find that most suppliers will be adopting the Multi drives RAM/-RW/-R No point looking at computer parts suppliers. Look at computer makers. You will find the computer manufactures as found in computer mags fall heavily on the minus format side.

As for the price of RAM discs they can now be got for £2-98 none caddy type.

http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk/acata...LICK_HERE.html

As much as I will beleive and say that -RAM is the best cos' that's my opinion, this quote really sums up what I have tried to say as much as anything else..... if it's what fulfills your requirements then it must be good..... and at the end of the day choice for the consumer can only be a good thing!

One other point though, if DABS are charging that much for -RAM discs then they have got buckleys chance of selling them cos' I only pay £13.99 for Panasonic branded 9.7Gb (ie. up to 12 hours recording) IN MY LOCAL INDEPENDANT RETAILER so they are way off the mark.

Yoda

Off the topic..

I got a 6GB Creative DAP MP3 player for less than £100 including VAT at the end of last year!

Bargain.

Gav

I have had the Panasonic E30 for about 4 months & I haven't looked back since. DVD-R recording is perfect with bulk- paq 59p DVD-R discs & TDK & Maxell DVD-RAM Type 2, 4.7 GB discs cost £5.99., while double sided 9.4 GB DVD- RAM discs cost about £9.50 from most specialist disc suppliers. Once you have experienced the Time Slip features of the Panny( you can watch a programme while it's being recorded, or watch another programme while recording on the same disc) there's no going back.
The Phillips 880 is more popular than the Panasonic E30 because many more retailers stock it & iit's £50 cheaper. For the xtra quality £50 extra is worth it. In March Panasonic will release the E50 & E60 which will be cheaper than their Phillips equivalents. Check out http://www.avland.co.uk

[quote]Originally posted by malcom
[b]You and I will never agree on this subject. But never mind let's slog on for the hell of it.... From the list you gave from Dabs. The plus format is clearly in the minority. Can you give me a list of computer manufactures that have adopted the plus drives.!!!! as standard. I would be interested to know from you or anyone of such. I think I know of two.. Dell and the other whose name eludes me for the moment.

Malcolm - The other is Hewlett Packard the largest supplier of PCs worldwide. So that will be Dell, HP, Fujitsu-Siemens, Phillips, Sony etc on the +RW side then. Didn't Apple withdraw their support from DVD-RAM early last year.

see also
here

pleeessseee no more format wars

Please help!

I have a philips 880 DVDR and I'm having problems.... when I record using a dvd+rw on the philips 880 I can't play it back on the Xbox (although the DVD+r does play back). Are there any settings I can tweak to get it working?

Would really appreciate you help!!

There's a strong possibility that the Xbox can't read DVD+RW disks. So it might not be a problem with your Philips, maybe a limitation on the Xbox.

The compatibility matrix shows the xbox as good for dvd+rw.... I had hoped that I had simply missed a setting somewhere....

Thanks for you help and let me know if anything else springs to mind.

Thanks

Geez

Try setting the bitrate to DVD-ROM (put disc in the tray, leave it open, press and hold 2). DVD+R are set to this by default, DVD+RW are not which is probably why DVD+R is working for you where DVD+RW isn't.

This is all in the troubleshooting section at the back of your 880 manual by the way...

Thanks for this but - no - it doesn't do the trick. In fact I had gone through all the offered solutions in the manual before bothering the forum.... so I guess it might not be fixable....! :'(

Thanks everyone who offered potential solutions. If a lightbulb suddenly comes on and you think of something else I should try PLEASE let me know!

G.

A bit obvious, but try a different brand of media...

Will do. I've already tried Philips, Maxwell, and Packard Bell DVD+RWs with no success. Do you (or any one) know of an media type that is of paricularly high quality?

Thanks

G.

I'm not sure the compatibility Matrix will work. For example, older PlayStation2s will not DVD-RWs (mine certainly doesn't - I had to buy a new Pioneer player!) but the newer ones most certainly do... I've also seen lots of evidence of differing Xboxen running different brands of DVD-R media to varying levels of success...

I've cracked it!
My xbox will now play any type of dvd+rm I put in the tray.

Quite surprisingly, the following worked a treat:

http://www.xbox-scene.com/articles/philipspot.php

That said, I'm not recommending you try it - I thought I had completely ruined my xbox at one stage.... so beware... and at your own risk go forth!!

Thanks for all the advice.

Geez

Did that really work?

Just turning the pot like that seems a very straight forward way of getting +R and +RW etc etc to work... If it did work then WOW!

What does that pot control?

Gavin