I'm fairly new to this forum but I have to say that there are times when it can be really frustrating.

I feel everybody should be able to write whatever they like, whether they are being positive or negative. This is what a forum should be about and its healthy to have difference of opinions.

However, there are people on here who take everything just too seriously. After all, Strictly Come Dancing is just a TV programme, however brilliant and entertaining it is.

I have written on threads, with different opinions, and have got criticised for daring to have a difference of opinion. Doesn't matter what you say, if you say something remotely negative about somebody's favourite dancer then that's it, youre immediately the "bad" person. A lot of people on here, usually quite an obsessive bunch, hate the fact that someone dare hold a different opinion to theirs or that someone doesn't like their favourite dancer. We should be able to say whatever we like, within reason. That is the idea of a forum.

Please accept we all have our favourites. If you cannot accept that then you shouldn't be visiting a forum. Everyone knows my favourite dancer on here, but I don't mind if other's don't like her, I don't criticise them, I think that's quite fine and they're free to say exactly what they like. Its always interesting to hear who others like and why they dislike certain dancers. There are quite a few people on here who are quite obsessive about their favourite dancers and that's not very healthy.

Also, why is there an immediate accusation of "bias" directed towards the BBC, the Judges, and everybody else, when someone dare criticise their favourite dancers? Its quite crazy. The judges are there for a reason, and they do a great and entertaining job. Without them it would'nt be as exciting. The BBC make a great TV programme which millions enjoy. So lets enjoy it for what it is, a real family TV show.

And finally, can we please stop all this personal messaging towards each other on various threads. It spoils it for the many others who want to discuss, in an intelligent and interesting way, their favourite dancer, thread etc. I've been on a few threads recently and the same few people are just personally messaging each other and it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread. This spoils what probably originally started out as a really interesting thread. Its also against the rules, which we should respect and abide by.

So, lets all appreciate we all have our favourites, we all have difference of opinions, and lets accept them all and continue to use this forum to get all our points of views across.
Last edited by moonglow : 13-12-2006 at 07:46

Sensible post Moonglow.

Yes we should be allowed to say what we feel do long as it does not degenerate into personal attack.

I have my favourite dancers and my not so favourite's. My opinion is based around my years of experience in the field and is perfectly valid. If I don't like someone or their performance I will say so, and can back it up with reasons.

Yes there are people who take it seriously, I include myself in this category, for the simple reason that I watch the perfromances with a dancers eye and when a judge marks a routine higher than I believe it deserved, it annoys me. I can never watch SCD for the entertainment value alone and I almost envy those who do.

There are the obsessive's and there are the one's who think that everyone is delightful and a pleasure to be with and that the Pro's all live in perfect harmony. There are others who refuse to acknowledge that someone might not like their favourite dancer and those who can't begin to think that their favourite dancer has any other side to their personality than the one they see on TV.

These people are all entitled to their opinions, which are just as valid as my own. What I object to is people being personally abusive when opinions don't match.

Personally, I have escaped personal attack because (I hope!) other posters understand that when I challenge someone on a topic, I am not hurling an attack at them, but opening debate on an aspect of a perfromance/routine/dancer etc. The 'Go Karen' thread is an excellent example. I and a few others have been discussing how a good relationship with your partner can make a difference to a performance. I have not always enjoyed Karen's exploits during this series, but I respect her and those who do enjoy her performances.

Onto your points about bias on the judges part. It is annoying when a judge glosses over technical inconsistencies in order to give a high mark. Emma being the classic case in point. There was no hip action in her Rumba yet Len scored her well. This isn't me crying because Louisa got voted out of the competition, it is me being rightfully annoyed because he has been inconsistent with his remarks and scoring.

Anyway, for the most part, stay off the 'appreciation' threads if you have nothing nice to say about the subject therein. If you have something constructively critical to say then do so, but be ready for a small flurry of retaliation and take it in your stride.

As I've said, I do not get personally attacked for my opinions since I make it clear on what these opinions are based on and I refrain from making personal comments about the poster. If we all did this, it would be fine!

Well the main problem moonglow seems to be with some of the fans of your favourite dancer!

It is they who can let even the faintest reasoned criticism of her pass without leaping in with loud, boring and repetitive allegations of "bashing" or "abuse".

The other finalists have their fans and critics too, but don't feel the urge to start umpteen threads about "why this" and "why that" and "hy does nobody like her", then getting upset when the answers they get aren't all adulatory.

The vast majority of those who aren't Emma fans (there - I've said it now!) have said that they have no problems with her as a person, but mainly that they find her dancing boring to watch and overrated by the judges. Its only a few who have descended into the personal comments about her, and if I understand correctly, they have been banned from the forums for a time because of it.

The BBC and the judges have laid themselves wide open to the accusations of bias. As an avid viewer of the series I think only Arlene has not declared a preference for Emma in her judging or debates on ITT - I can already hear the howls of "Prove it !"so here goes.....

BBC bias
* allowing Emma to be a contestant knowing that she would be doing the CIN single which would give her an even higher profile than she had already among all the contestants
* allowing an unfair proportion of Emma's friends and supporters to appear on the likes of ITT and be interviewed on the main show. We haven't seen too many of Mark or Matt's friends and family on there - or even any of the other contestants in earlier rounds.
* allowing the programmes to show only the best clips from Emmas performances whilst showing mainly the errors from others/

Judges bias
* Craig's comments such as "You know how I feel about you" and "Emma has competition", and admitting that her smile distracted him from her faults (or something similar) - clearly showing that he has a preference for Emma which does appear at times to cloud his professional judgements
* Bruno's admission that he marked Emma up in ChaCha week because he knew that the others had marked her down for the faults in her performance.
* Len moving the rumba goalposts after Louisa had been marked down for a technically superior dance by admitting that both couples "danced rumba in the modern way which is all posturing and posing (or all sausage and no sizzle) and giving Emma higher marks.
* All of the judges ignoring Emma's mistakes in certain dances whilst giving others a hard time and low marks for the same mistakes - or even marking a technically bad routine by Emma higher than a good one by eg Claire (foxtrot)

Its not just FM's saying these things. Brendan said it quite clearly in his outburst, and it would appear from comments on the shows that the other pros and celebs are aware of the bias and favouritism too.

Now - there's a reasoned answer to your question - wait for it to be shot down in flames by a mad Emma fan who refuses to see what is as plain as the nose on their face!

Me personally?

I'm not a rabid fan of any of the final 3 - but in view of the above points - the men will be getting my votes this weekend as they have got there on their own merits and not through the assistance of others.

Of the 3 I think Mark when on form is way ahead of the others - and given what was hanging over his head last weekend - I thought he did brilliantly

Free speech to all! Lets stop all these people who 'claim' to know the pro dancers/celebrities and stop anyone else in the least bit criticising anyone!
I like to discuss and debate (sometimes strongly) everything and I hate it when forums become just fan sites where you can only praise! We should be able to say what we want without being accused of 'bashing'!

If the pros/celebrities want to read these forums thats up to them - we don't have to protect them! They probably read it to find out what we actually think - if you stop people saying what they think then that prevents the purpose of the forum!

Sticks and stones and all that!

I agree with you (amazingly ) but some comments shouldn't be even allowed on a forum... I remember that there was one awhile back which could have ended up in a lot of troube...

This forum is nuts sometimes, but just ignore the nonsense and contribute to the threads that you think are worthwhile (not that many in my case).

DerChef says

Well said , bit worried about agreeing with you in case I am accused of tag teaming with you on a certain anti male pro dancer line

I could not care less how many lessons people with a certain person and how great they are with animals and small children , I am only concerned with how I perceive they have behaved on SCD.

I have never on here and never will directly attack another poster and their intellect or character and have never invaded any of the "love in" threads. But everything else is fair game as far as I am concerned

I am a fan of big Karen Hardy and if people want to post that she has fat legs and needs to lose a stone weight thats fine by me , its then my mission then to make them look stupid .

Ohhhh Yeah

I take full responsibility for the anti-Brendan line, but have never posted threads about Karen's weight - I did start the discussion about not liking Karen's personality though! However, I totally agree with you - if you disagree you should (and did I remember ) argue your point strongly!

I'm not going to take it personally if people disagree with me! In all honesty (and I think this goes for the MAJORITY (I would hope!) of people on here) this forum is for fun and discussion and I don't think about it when I'm not on it!

Lets just all say what we want!

Debate is fantastic!

What I am getting tired of is this BBC conspiracy tin hat brigade. It's just getting tiresome to read about it over and over and over and over again.

Brendan said yesterday that he thought Emma should win because she's the best dancer there and someone on here actually suggested this morning that he only did so because he wants to cosy up to his BBC bosses to secure his job. WTF?! Brendan is massively popular and great publicity for the show - do people really believe they'd get rid of him for not supporting Emma.

I think some people need to just bring it down a notch. In the end the public have a massive say in who wins and, based on the last few weeks public result, it won't be Emma.

I could turn round and say that 'Ooo, the BBC have told Tess to play up and keep mentioning Mark's sex symbol status so that more women vote for him and tune in to see him every week! See it's a BBC conspiracy!' or 'Ooo, the BBC have been constantly told people to bang about Matt's j-word so that people vote for him! They clearly want him in the final because he's a BBC employee and it's good publicity for other shows! See it's a BBC conspiracy!' Anything can be a conspiracy if you look for it.

In the end, so what if the BBC are using Emma's fame or Mark's chest or Matt 'J' to get more viewers? Clearly this so called conspiracy doesn't work because Emma's certainly not way out in front with the public!

It must be clear to whoever sees the voting figures at the BBC that Mark and Matt are the most popular contestants remaining therefore surely it is in the corporation's best interests to make sure they get to the final (and hence bring in the biggest audience), not the least popular of the remaining celebs.

[/ end rant]
Last edited by claire2281 : 13-12-2006 at 12:46

Just to point out that, even though this is the Internet; designed for the free exchange of information & opinions (originally between American universities engaged in defence research) doesn't mean that the usual laws regarding slander & libel don't apply.

The fact that you are posting on a public forum. or a dedicated website, doesn't mean that you can make unsubstantiated allegations; nor does it give you the right to make personal attacks, without the possibility of a legal response from the person or organisation against whom the remarks or allegations are directed (one of the reasons forums such as this impose rules & have all members agree to them at the time of registration).

Freedom of speech is a wonderful idea, but it just isn't practical to allow people to say what they like about anyone or anything.

Remember that the biggest libel settlement in British legal history was imposed on two campaigners who thought that they could make wildly untrue claims regarding McDonalds restaurants, on the Internet, & not be touched for doing so.

I agree with just about everything people are saying on here and its so refreshing to hear other people feel the same way.

well done Moonglow - good thread.

I would add however that it seems easier to get away with criticising some dancers than others (maybe a bias with the moderators).

Or maybe reflective of who the favourite dancers/celebs are on this forum, which is directly proportional to the number of angry alert button pushers there may be when that celeb/dancer is criticised.

I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed reading your intelligent, articulate posting and how much I agree with you. It is so nice to read a posting from someone who is not hysterical and can calmly itemize her points of view. The judges have driven me demented through this whole series and have spoilt the show for me this year.

Well said, Claire. Another example I can think of is Mark and Karen saying on ITT last night that they only wanted to come in on Tuesdays due to superstition. If that had been Emma and Darren, there would have been cries of conspiracy and unfairness that one couple, from nearly the beginning of the series, is always allowed to bagsie one night of the week on ITT irrespective of the time/previous commitments/convenience of the other 13 contestants.

Personally I have no problem with Maren Tuesdays. But then I have no problem with how many times Emma appears either. There really is no conspiracy!
Last edited by Shappy : 13-12-2006 at 14:16

I think you may be right Shappy

YEP! Criticise Karen and you might as well hang yourself!

There are so many people who claim to 'know' her and therefore warn moderators if you so much as question her choreography!

Yep - but there shouldn't be a problem if you are just voicing an opinion! You can say 'I hate/dislike/like/love/worship' whoever you want and comment on what you think of them, right!

I mean it would be wrong lawfully to start of rumours and things about them, I agree!

Excellent post. Just wanted to add to your list, if I may:

BBC naivety by including a contestant who was going to bring out an album during the run of the programme.
With the economic pressures of securing sales, it must be very difficult for Emma's record promotions company to resist the urge to use SCD to save on pre-album promotional costs.

Shappy, you have never said a truer word love.

So, we are allowed to critizise a dancer and not be accused of bashing, which many of your allies of Emma (and you) often do?
If you do not see the bias, then fair enough, the BBC have managed to convince someone. But many people do think there is, and as you pointed out, this is our opinion and so is not wrong.
Good OP,though.

I have not been on this forum since Friday, and am quite Shocked at some of the postings - so Moonglow as you started this post and also the Lilia one - I quite agree with the majority of your comments.

You will always find however, that mutual opinions of posters lead to warm exchanges as well as negative ones and to bang on about people personally messaging each other is where I was concerned - an over-exaggeration as friendships (albeit virtual ones) do happen on a fan-based forum. I made the most dreadful mistake of saying "Goodnight"(ONCE!!!!!) to one of the posters whom had been contributing to the same thread I had been (Lilia's), only to be reprimanded by yourself and alerted to DS Forum. Some things can be taken too seriously you know!

Therefore what made your original points seem very interesting and justified - (the extreme and personal attack postings) I can't help feeling that you are way too serious about some of the others points - but you are entitled to free speech - as am I

Yer, us over on the Brendan thread do like to talk to each other, we're trying our best now and even have our own forum to talk on but I think its nice that some of us have kept in touch over the year on this forum and still talk in a friendly way... Its one of the things I loved last year is that we were all like a family and we all knew each other... This year just seems a little more negative and some of the people I loved talking to last year seem to have disappeared because of it ...

Exactly - Far too much seriousness (on both sides of the argument) !

I couldn't give a monkeys what anyone on this forum says about my opinions, they're mine and I have a right to have them!