good on yer Doll!
This forum!
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Originally Posted by Quirky shazzer:
“Exactly - Far too much seriousness (on both sides of the argument) !”
“Exactly - Far too much seriousness (on both sides of the argument) !”
I fully agree with this. I think making a point about free speech but then berate people on what they should be saying is not quite right.
Being an avid reader of the forums (note the plural) on DS it does amaze me at times how vociferous some people can be in regards to their own opinion. Before anyone jumps on me, I totally agree that everyone should voice their opinion but at the end of the day that's all it is - an opinion. It doesn't automatically make what an individual posts right, but many seem to think that it does and get quite aggresive in defending it which can often lead to personalising the subject being discussed.
There has of course been a huge amount of discussion regarding Emma and the 'BBC conspiracy' to make her win. Now my opinion is that there is no conspiracy and from what I have seen on TV the majority of people interviewed praise Emma for her dancing ability and agree that she is one of the best this year. Some may question the amount of coverage she is getting but as she is in the middle of promoting her new CD is it any wonder that her agent/promoter is not taking full advantage of the situation. Many people seem to have a problem with this but lets face it Emma is looking to prolong her career and I think anyone in the same situation would do the same and at the end of the day who are we to judge.
It's interesting that last year I posted an opionion that I didn't agree with other posters saying everyone should vote for the best dancer, as I felt that was not the purpose of SCD. Yes I know that dancing is an important part of the program but as we are told each week "you are voting for your favourite couple" and for me this is about more than dancing. I would be the first to admit that lat year Colin was by far the more accomplished dancer but I voted for Darren & Lillia as to me (my opinion) they were the most enjoyable to watch for a number of reasons. Would I have been insensed with rage if they had lost and started calling it all a fix - not at all. Whoever wins does so by a combination of judges votes and public votes and if that happens to be not the couple I like then so be it.
It's easy of course to shout 'conspiracy' or 'fix' when something doesn't go the way you want and I'm sure we have all accused refs of being biased when our favourite side is losing or an officials decision seems to disadvantage 'our team'. Of course after the event we all know that there is nothing to support these claims and this is what makes the conspiracy claims about the BBC and Emma so amusing to read. As far as i can tell not one person has come up with anything beyond 'their opinion' as to the supposed collusion between Emma, the BBC, the judges, the other pro dancers, Tess, the other dancers, the voters etc. etc. etc.
Not that this is just restricted to SCD and Emma. Seconds after Zara Phillips winning the SPOTY award the boards were awash with people claiming it was all a 'fix' and the BBC 'wanted her to win' and that it was only because she was a Royal etc. etc. etc. Personally (and in my opinion) I thought she was a worthy winner and had achieved her win through hard work and training. Should she have won - well that's really up to your own viewpoint on what individual you feel deserved the honour, for whatever reason.
It's great having discussions and debates on here but I really think some of the more personal postings have been unacceptable and beyond just expressing an opinion. At the end of the day all the contestants on SCD have put in a lot of time and effort and to some extent put their lives on hold for 3 months or more. For that I think they all deserve to be treated with respect and their final position accepted as being the vote of the majority, where ever that may be.
All IMO of course
There has of course been a huge amount of discussion regarding Emma and the 'BBC conspiracy' to make her win. Now my opinion is that there is no conspiracy and from what I have seen on TV the majority of people interviewed praise Emma for her dancing ability and agree that she is one of the best this year. Some may question the amount of coverage she is getting but as she is in the middle of promoting her new CD is it any wonder that her agent/promoter is not taking full advantage of the situation. Many people seem to have a problem with this but lets face it Emma is looking to prolong her career and I think anyone in the same situation would do the same and at the end of the day who are we to judge.
It's interesting that last year I posted an opionion that I didn't agree with other posters saying everyone should vote for the best dancer, as I felt that was not the purpose of SCD. Yes I know that dancing is an important part of the program but as we are told each week "you are voting for your favourite couple" and for me this is about more than dancing. I would be the first to admit that lat year Colin was by far the more accomplished dancer but I voted for Darren & Lillia as to me (my opinion) they were the most enjoyable to watch for a number of reasons. Would I have been insensed with rage if they had lost and started calling it all a fix - not at all. Whoever wins does so by a combination of judges votes and public votes and if that happens to be not the couple I like then so be it.
It's easy of course to shout 'conspiracy' or 'fix' when something doesn't go the way you want and I'm sure we have all accused refs of being biased when our favourite side is losing or an officials decision seems to disadvantage 'our team'. Of course after the event we all know that there is nothing to support these claims and this is what makes the conspiracy claims about the BBC and Emma so amusing to read. As far as i can tell not one person has come up with anything beyond 'their opinion' as to the supposed collusion between Emma, the BBC, the judges, the other pro dancers, Tess, the other dancers, the voters etc. etc. etc.
Not that this is just restricted to SCD and Emma. Seconds after Zara Phillips winning the SPOTY award the boards were awash with people claiming it was all a 'fix' and the BBC 'wanted her to win' and that it was only because she was a Royal etc. etc. etc. Personally (and in my opinion) I thought she was a worthy winner and had achieved her win through hard work and training. Should she have won - well that's really up to your own viewpoint on what individual you feel deserved the honour, for whatever reason.
It's great having discussions and debates on here but I really think some of the more personal postings have been unacceptable and beyond just expressing an opinion. At the end of the day all the contestants on SCD have put in a lot of time and effort and to some extent put their lives on hold for 3 months or more. For that I think they all deserve to be treated with respect and their final position accepted as being the vote of the majority, where ever that may be.
All IMO of course
Originally Posted by Dollystanford:
“I couldn't give a monkeys what anyone on this forum says about my opinions, they're mine and I have a right to have them!”
“I couldn't give a monkeys what anyone on this forum says about my opinions, they're mine and I have a right to have them!”
Exactly Dolly
You have a right to your opinions - and the rest of the FMs have the same right to have their own!
Just because we don't see certain performances with those special glasses or contact lenses which blur out the mistakes made by our favourite couple, doesn't mean that our opinions about the performances aren't just as valid as yours.
Fortunately we live in a democracy where we believe in free speech - but what that means is that we may not agree with what you say but we defend to the death your right to say it!
Originally Posted by camdish:
“...
It's easy of course to shout 'conspiracy' or 'fix' when something doesn't go the way you want and I'm sure we have all accused refs of being biased when our favourite side is losing or an officials decision seems to disadvantage 'our team'. Of course after the event we all know that there is nothing to support these claims and this is what makes the conspiracy claims about the BBC and Emma so amusing to read. As far as i can tell not one person has come up with anything beyond 'their opinion' as to the supposed collusion between Emma, the BBC, the judges, the other pro dancers, Tess, the other dancers, the voters etc. etc. etc.”
“...
It's easy of course to shout 'conspiracy' or 'fix' when something doesn't go the way you want and I'm sure we have all accused refs of being biased when our favourite side is losing or an officials decision seems to disadvantage 'our team'. Of course after the event we all know that there is nothing to support these claims and this is what makes the conspiracy claims about the BBC and Emma so amusing to read. As far as i can tell not one person has come up with anything beyond 'their opinion' as to the supposed collusion between Emma, the BBC, the judges, the other pro dancers, Tess, the other dancers, the voters etc. etc. etc.”
Humm. It's not quite true that people have only "their opinion". They have reasons for their opinion, and they post them.
Originally Posted by CaroUK:
“... You have a right to your opinions - and the rest of the FMs have the same right to have their own!
Just because we don't see certain performances with those special glasses or contact lenses which blur out the mistakes made by our favourite couple, doesn't mean that our opinions about the performances aren't just as valid as yours.
Fortunately we live in a democracy where we believe in free speech - but what that means is that we may not agree with what you say but we defend to the death your right to say it!”
“... You have a right to your opinions - and the rest of the FMs have the same right to have their own!
Just because we don't see certain performances with those special glasses or contact lenses which blur out the mistakes made by our favourite couple, doesn't mean that our opinions about the performances aren't just as valid as yours.
Fortunately we live in a democracy where we believe in free speech - but what that means is that we may not agree with what you say but we defend to the death your right to say it!”
None of that makes all opinions equally valid, though.
Some opinions can be better supported by arguments and indeed the facts than others. People don't agree about which ones those are, and often there's no way to settle it decisively, but the attempt to work it out is one reason for having discussions rather than just having everyone post their opinions with no one ever replying to anyone else.
Originally Posted by Thess:
“Anyway, for the most part, stay off the 'appreciation' threads if you have nothing nice to say about the subject therein. If you have something constructively critical to say then do so, but be ready for a small flurry of retaliation and take it in your stride. ”
“Anyway, for the most part, stay off the 'appreciation' threads if you have nothing nice to say about the subject therein. If you have something constructively critical to say then do so, but be ready for a small flurry of retaliation and take it in your stride. ”
I would agree with this. The OP herself has gone into appreciation threads to slag off the person being appreciated. If you give it out you have to expect it back, in regard to your fave, my fave, the judges fave...whatever.
End.
Originally Posted by Veri:
“Humm. It's not quite true that people have only "their opinion". They have reasons for their opinion, and they post them.”
“Humm. It's not quite true that people have only "their opinion". They have reasons for their opinion, and they post them.”
Yup fair comment. What I was trying to get across is that if people make quite serious statements about things then this needs to be backed up (and challenged) by posting actual facts and not just reasons based on their opinions. I'm not saying anyone's opinions are wrong just that in some cases they need to be expanded on with facts.
For example:
I come on here and post that in my opinion Mark and Karen are having an affair. When challenged on why I state that I simply say well in my opinion the way they act together means they are having an affair. I would be jumped all over (and quite rightly) for not being able to back my statement up with anything but my opinion. If I could prove the affair was fact then both my statement and opinion would be correct. That is why I have asked for any evidence beyond peoples own individual opinions, bias, perceived viewpoints in showing that the BBC and others are involved in a conspiracy.
At the end of the day it's all about discussion.
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