Well put Erinfan, my sentiments exactly.

I personally like the friendly rivalary aswell but their is an appetite from some parts of the population for unfriendly rivalary as seen with the success of wife swap,the apprentice and holiday showdown.Some not me like it, the bbc tried to show that carol felt miffed by being overscored they didnt try to make it out to be an full scale war.

After watching CarolCam I think they did try to make it a massive issue, but Carol was careful with what she said and limited the controversy that was created. It certainly didn't become a massive thing on the show, but there have been many other things going on.

I see your point, you're right that some people do like to see unfriendliness and controversy at every corner like on Wife Swap, holiday apprentice etc - but SCD is a completely different style of show catering to a different audience and would hope that it would never begin to become similar.

Does manipulation always have to be there? Viewers are increasingly wise to the ways of the producers. Up to a point its quite fun to play 'spot the bias' but there will come a tipping point where the audience will switch off because they are tired of the programme makers playing them for fools.

I get so fed up when they try to force feed me a simplistic 'tabloid' view of the contestants. This refusal to recognise nuance and subtlety in people's motivations makes me feel that we, as an audience, are being talked down to.

I get the impression that the participants have been as friendly to one another as ever this year but we have not seen enough of this on screen. In my opinion this has detracted from the 'fun' factor.

Why is it that some people persist in thinking that when someone shows a 'bad' side to their personality (which we all have) that this negates any good qualities. Mostly we try our best to get along with one another, making myriad adjustments to accommodate all the different personalities we encounter. Sometimes this breaks down - I know that even people I am close to irritate me sometimes - and I'm sure I do them. But all it is is one aspect of some one's personality, not the whole person.

The reality bubble is going to burst sooner or later. Maybe the BBC should take a lead in rejecting the negative and corrosive aspects of the genre, especially in a programme than can be sheer unambiguous fun.

Great post, I agree completely! Reality TV became successful because for the first time there was something that seemed real on TV, even if it wasn't, and that fascinated people. If you take this feature away from it you're just left with low budget, high volume television that quickly gets boring. (I'm talking of other general reality shows - SCD is much more than the average reality show although the 'reality' aspect is of course still very important and the need to be presented as real is just as high)
Last edited by Erinfan : 17-12-2006 at 18:25

I wonder if the beeb approved of carol cam,i think the beeb are too desperate for it to be the number 1 show, the coming up features at the begining of the show are way overblown.I watched the x factor last year as well as strictly.At the begining of series 3 it was losing to the x factor by an small margin in the ratings, the x factor uses the same overblown coming up segment at the begining of the show and the similar over dramatic 'still to come'.Suddenly in the middle of the run last year strictly introduced the same 2 things and began winning against the x factor again

Oh don’t get me wrong I agree with you. All I meant was that a degree of manipulation is inevitable, when we see several hours/ days are compressed and edited into a very small period time. The only way to avoid this is to show completely live footage completely unedited; as much as I would love to see this, most TV channels probably lack the resources to be able to provide such a service.


I personally would much rather see healthy competition, but with ultimately friendship and camaraderie backstage, as indeed there does seem to be again this year. But what I meant was that the producers of shows like this seem to feel that we need to see backbiting etc. in order to keep us interested. You can take it away for me, and I would be nothing but happy about it. I would much rather see people having fun together than having a row.



Honestly, I don’t think this, and I can’t begin to imagine how I gave that impression. If Carol has said this then I don’t think any the worse of her for it at all, I just think it was perhaps a touch naïve not to expect it at all, especially given her experience in this genre itself.

I also thought Carolcam indicated a number of times that they were having to be careful with what they said and how they 'projected' themselves on the vt's of training sent back to London.

One of Carol's reasons for doing Carolcam may have been her reticence about reality tv shows and their format. It was very brave (foolhardy) of someone with a tv career to promote to challenge the executives in such a way.

Carol has complete editing control of Carolcam, and she didn't have to share with us the piece on the BBC talking to her husband. Matthew being careful what he said to camera for the BBC camera crew. Her problems with the editing of her pieces on Emma and how she resolved it. But she did and for that she should be commended.

Lastly, I don't know if I've said this before, but watch the ITT exit interview again. When they're talking about going out Carol says "maybe I had it coming" (about 1:20-1:30 on youtube clip).

Like Erinfan, I think there was something else going on and the two most obvious items would be:
a) carolcam
b) celebrities refusing to accept a couple returning.

For me she was a grown-up person demanding to be treated like a grown up and not just a body to enhance ratings. She danced with my favourite dancer and thoroughly added to the SCD experience this series.

Hmmm! Am I the only one thinking that maybe the manipulating is being done by Carol and/or her agent to the newspapers? After all, Carol is still getting headlines 3 weeks after being voted off the show!

This is not a criticism. Promotion is a big part of maintaining a career in showbiz and Carol is experienced enough to know the rules of engagement. She is very carefully criticising the judges/producers rather than her fellow competitors. She also says how great the overall experience has been to show no grudges to the BBC!

Anyway, I hope that she is behind this and, if so, hats off to her for playing the game so well.

Er, SCD is not reality TV, it belongs to another department called Light Entertainment.

Er, It is still based around reality TV hence every minute of their training being recorded. As I said the reality element is quite small compared to other shows, but it's still there.

[QUOTE=gritty]I .

Like Erinfan, I think there was something else going on and the two most obvious items would be:
a) carolcam
b) celebrities refusing to accept a couple returning.

QUOTE]
I can see producers being miffed about both, i

I'm not convinced she even went to the papers. I think someone had found an old interview or CarolCam and brought it all up again as an "exclusive" story.

Bruce keeps calling it family light entertainment but I think I'm right in saying it is usually called competitive reality tv. (the reality bit being that tv cameras follow you around all the time and use clips on the main programme).

I would hope before Bruce retires he uses his influence and joins with Carol is trying to stem the drift of SCD into something less family orientated. The horror of the circus show that Carol suggests has overtaken other reality shows.

So what are they supposed to do?

When you've got a one minute video you can hardly stop and start every two seconds to seperate out all the comments. The videos tell a story.

You cant have...

Matthew: I hated Dance number 1
Carol: I loved last week's show
Matthew: Dance number 2 was good
Carol: I liked Dance number 1

It would make much more sense to put them in order:

Carol: I loved last week's show
Carol: I liked Dance number 1
Matthew: I hated Dance number 1
Matthew: Dance number 2 was good

Now, that would make it sound like Matthew was disagreeing directly with Carol, when in fact it was totally unrelated, but there is no much you can do and it tells the story much better.

When you've got such a short VT you cant afford to seperate out ALL the comments. Comment PAUSE Comment PAUSE Comment PAUSE - that wouldnt flow.

Putting together Carol's comments about Emma's overmarking and the judges having favourites is just linking two comments - both criticisms of the judges.

That’s probably the most likely scenario.

You certainly didn't give this impression and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. It was just me carrying on a train of thought.

As I read it you were simply taking a pragmatic view of how reality television is and how you expect it to be in the future.

I'm afraid you are more likely to be right in your assessment than I am but I try to be optimistic.

Which reminds me of one of my favourite observations.

Optimist - someone who thinks we live in the best of all possible worlds.

Pessimist - someone who thinks we live in the best of all possible worlds.

Ah fair enough, I’m sorry if I seemed defensive in return.

I think you're spot on Erinfan..... someone has found an old interview on carolcam and used it as an exclusive!!
In fact the first diary entry from week 9 is still on carols website and it refers to this..... don't think its the exact one but i do recall watching her talk about this in a previous entry....

I missed this post yesterday so am unashamedly 'bumping' it this morning - because it needs to be said and it needs to be read!!

In the early series SCD was a well balanced, light entertainment programme. On the whole, viewers were left to make up their own minds - and although everyone will have their favourites (Chris Parker anyone?) the public voted for what they actually saw - and the judges marked what they saw!

The manipulation this year with so much footage of Emma, and her undoubted over marking - in comparison - on occasion, and certainly last week, an almost total lack of reference to Matt & Lilia, has changed the flavour of the programme.

The BBC need to consider their options - do they want to turn SCD into another Big Brother-style show - or do they want to give the viewing public what an overwhelming majority of us, actually want.

What did Carol say about Emma?

I wholeheartedly agree with Professor Christine Geraghty (see OP).

Carol Smillie is either demonstrating incredible stupidity or has her own agenda (which IMHO is much more likely). She's been in enough editing suites to know the game as well as anyone.

So are some people saying she shouldn't have given any interviews to the production team while she was still in the competition?

As this is your second statement on Carol:
a. her harsh, formulaic style
b. her own agenda

As a supporter of Carol and Matthew, I would be very interested in trying to understand your viewpoint on Carol. If we haven't discussed before, please be assured I am happy to accept your position but having commented twice, I assume you would like to opportunity to expand your statements with justifying comment.

Fair enough, I'll try to be a bit clearer.

Firstly, the disclaimer: I don't know Carol Smillie as a person, and make no judgement about her personality.

What I do judge her on is what she shows us of herself as a TV personality. In other words I judge her presenting skills, and any other statements or comments which she communicates via the media.

My first comment which you quoted, is my personal opinion of her presenting style. She comes across to me as meticulously rehearsed and extremely professional - both of which make her a slightly stiff and unnatural presenter. Compare this with Claudia Winkleman - she may well be as well-rehearsed and professional as Carol, but she doesn't appear to be - and as a result is a more spontaneous and genuine presenter in my opinion.

My second comment which you quote (that she has her own agenda) comes from the fact that she has worked within TV and other broadcast media for many years, and therefore has long experience of editing, soundbites and what quotes will or will not make good media copy. In other words, she knows how she is likely to be edited and presented, and is in a good position to control this to a certain extent. She also has PR representatives and a management company who will keep a close eye on this.

On a wider level, no TV show is spontaneous or real, no matter how much effort is made to portray it as such - the fact that Carol works in this industry and has made a success of herself in it is a clear sign that she knows the game and how to play it.

I should stress that I don't think these are negative points in themselves, but they do mean that when I read that someone with the depth of experience that Carol Smillie has expresses herself as "shocked" by editing, then I'm afraid I don't buy it.