3: It's £25 to downgrade!!

wavejockglw · 20-12-2006, 11:12

3 has taken another step to curb the poor-quality business that has harmed it in its dash for connections, by charging downgraders a £25 administration fee.

Downgrading customers can only avoid the fee by extending their contract by six months instead. The move comes six weeks after 3 introduced strict downgrading rules, as it tries to stamp out the active encouragement of downgrading as part of the sales pitch of many dealers and retailers.

Customers who are willing to pay the fee to downgrade will still have to wait 12 months before they can downgrade on an 18-month contract.

Some dealers have expressed concern that the move is retroactive and could cause big problems for dealers whose existing customers who have bought with the expressed intent of downgrading, often by several tiers.

One dealer said: 'We aren't worried about the new business. But it's going to cause a massive wave of complaints from existing customers who want to downgrade. They are going to say, “You told me I could drop my tariff to £20 and now you are telling me its going to cost £50 to do that”.'

Others have welcomed the change. Another dealer told Mobile: 'It's a good thing to have been introduced as it will stop people from encouraging customers to downgrade, which in turn loses the network money and gives dealers a bad name.'

A 3 spokesman said: 'We've been consistently competitive in the market this year and we are committed to partners who give us good-quality business.

'This step is not a significant change and is in line with other steps we've taken this year to deliver quality business. It means there is clarity and consistency for customers.'

From Mobile Today Website http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/content...sp?men=0&sub=1

intheknow · 20-12-2006, 15:45

This is great! Surely this detrimental change in T&C's means you can cancel your 3 contract? Like when they put the prices up and people got out of their 18 month contracts...?

You can't be bound to a changed contract that you didn't agree to in the first place. They agreed when you signed up that you could downgrade if you wanted after 6 months and 1 step at a time.

http://www.tescophones.com/help/medi...Conditions.pdf

Ignore the tesco link it's the only place I could find Three's full T&C's

Section 4.1 (II)

intheknow · 20-12-2006, 16:33

Sorry 10.1 D

20-12-2006, 17:52

Only if you request to cancel within 1 month of being advised of the change (so the clock's ticking!)...and then they'll probably just allow the downgrade for free rather than allow you to terminate the contract.

The contract (4.3) also states that any changes that could be detrimental to your terms require 1 months notice from them anyway.

wavejockglw · 20-12-2006, 18:11

Hopefully the 'detrimental clause' will apply as many will be caught out by this change.

3 are not the only ones tightning up as Orange have also introduced limits on when customers can downgarde (details at www.mobiletoday.co.uk).

Many customers have been mis-sold contracts by sales staff deliberately in major outlets. I have been told by staff in national chains to buy a deal and simply reduce to a lower one after 6 months when I have been shopping around. Dealers get big commissions on 3's VTT 1100 tarriff and can offer better quality phones free whilst making very big margins. This is a £45 a month deal and if one buys that now on an 18 month contract it would be 12 months before you could downgrade and even then you could only move to VTT 700 at £35 a month and you would have to pay £25 for the privilage.

3 should have made this new administration charge or contract extension apply to new customers only as it is not fair on the retailers or customers who bought deals to be subjected to additional punitive charges that did'nt apply when they enetered into the deal.

A very poorly thought out move by 3 that shafts their own customers rather than stopping the mis-selling that they and their dealers have benefitted from. Another reason to beware of 3 when considering a mobile and many will have good reason not to trust or recommend them after being affected by this.

intheknow · 21-12-2006, 03:51

Well I tried to cancel on the phone today and they refused on the grounds that those terms don't apply, I asked for a supervisor and spoke to them who agreed that this was a change to the Terms and Conditions rather than a price change, I then asked to speak to somebody higher and got the same reply.

I've written to the customer services in glasgow with the following:

Thee Customer Services
PO Box 333
Glasgow
GL2 9AG

Dear Sir / Madam,

I would like to give 30 days notice to terminate my contract as I feel the new £ 25 charge being introduced to change down price plan is likely to be detrimental to me. The original agreement with three stated that I could lower my price plan free after 6 months and then change up or down in steps.

The Terms and Conditions state that I may cancel:

(d) Within one month of a detrimental variation to
your agreement.
You can end the agreement within one month of us
telling you about a variation to your agreement
(which includes your Price Plan) which is likely to
be
of detriment to you. You must give written notice
to
3 Customer Services within that month and your
agreement will finish at the end of the month,
once we receive your notice.
(A Cancellation Fee will not be charged.)

Note that the 'agreement' refers to the my complete agreement with Three, not just the price plan I have chosen:

About your agreement:
2.1 Your agreement is made up of these Terms for
3 Services and your Price Plan, along with any other
terms laid down in the3 Services on the Handset,
and in documents we have produced, including the
list of Services, User Guide and documents we may
produce in the future. Additional terms may apply to
any promotional or special offers.

As these are not the original Terms I agreed to and a new charge will be of detriment to me I would like to give notice to terminate my contract at no charge.

Sean10 · 21-12-2006, 09:37

It will be very interesting to see what reply you get from 3, if that is what is written in the T&Cs then they have little to stand on.

21-12-2006, 10:53

Well Three didn't exactly roll over when people initially tried to cancel their contracts because of price rises either.

Ultimately, you may need to pursue the matter through the courts for alleged breach of contract to force them to comply - it really depends how far you wish to press the matter and that is no doubt what Three are going to try and establish.

Satellite John · 27-12-2006, 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by intheknow

Well I tried to cancel on the phone today and they refused on the grounds that those terms don't apply, I asked for a supervisor and spoke to them who agreed that this was a change to the Terms and Conditions rather than a price change, I then asked to speak to somebody higher and got the same reply.

I've written to the customer services in glasgow with the following:

Thee Customer Services
PO Box 333
Glasgow
GL2 9AG

Dear Sir / Madam,

I would like to give 30 days notice to terminate my contract as I feel the new £ 25 charge being introduced to change down price plan is likely to be detrimental to me. The original agreement with three stated that I could lower my price plan free after 6 months and then change up or down in steps.

The Terms and Conditions state that I may cancel:

(d) Within one month of a detrimental variation to
your agreement.
You can end the agreement within one month of us
telling you about a variation to your agreement
(which includes your Price Plan) which is likely to
be
of detriment to you. You must give written notice
to
3 Customer Services within that month and your
agreement will finish at the end of the month,
once we receive your notice.
(A Cancellation Fee will not be charged.)

Note that the 'agreement' refers to the my complete agreement with Three, not just the price plan I have chosen:

About your agreement:
2.1 Your agreement is made up of these Terms for
3 Services and your Price Plan, along with any other
terms laid down in the3 Services on the Handset,
and in documents we have produced, including the
list of Services, User Guide and documents we may
produce in the future. Additional terms may apply to
any promotional or special offers.

As these are not the original Terms I agreed to and a new charge will be of detriment to me I would like to give notice to terminate my contract at no charge.

Please do post the result of your exchange with three. I very much want to get out of my three contract too. Cheers.

wavejockglw · 27-12-2006, 23:36

This policy is a disgrace..... it is detrimental and should count and you should be able to cancel.

Rumour has it that 3 will increase prices in January so that is a definate detrimental change but we shall have to wait and see.

3 have been pretty poor in terms of customer care lately.

Throttle · 28-12-2006, 00:24

£25 to downgrade

Im with three myself and my half price 6 month is due to end soon i might get a letter sent myself if you have much luck ....why my actual service has been no trouble i dont like fact that they are not sticking to there own t&c that i signed too and i couldnt downgrade at a later date without paying £25 is a rip off tbh

.

intheknow · 28-12-2006, 03:15

I'm still waiting to hear, they haven't relied yet!

bluechang · 28-12-2006, 18:49

if you don't get anywhere with three , may i also suggest speaking with your local trading standards authority and/or the citizens advice bureau, as the company are practically forcving you to stay in a contract you didnt sign upto!!! If you take the connection paperwork you signed when taking the contract out, they should be able to give you some assistance. If all fails, it may be necessary to take legal advice and legal action.

28-12-2006, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by intheknow

I'm still waiting to hear, they haven't relied yet!

I too have just written a complaint based on your letter. I only found out last night when I phoned to downgrade my plan. The irony was I was going to add some extras and would still have been paying them the same amount. I have added to my letter that I am contacting my Trading Standards office, which I will do tomorrow.

intheknow · 05-01-2007, 03:45

*bump* still waiting for a reply from three anyone else heard anything?

zounds · 05-01-2007, 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by intheknow

*bump* still waiting for a reply from three anyone else heard anything?

Just been reading the thread here:

http://www.3g.co.uk/3GForum/showthre...t=49294&page=6

From the old t+c's:

Quote:

"you can ask to change to the next lower available Price Plan than the one you originally joined us on (on such terms as specified by 3)."

As someone else said:

Quote:

it is a problem with the dealers promising one thing, rather than anything 3 have done technicaly wrong.

Last edited by zounds : 05-01-2007 at 08:50.

intheknow · 05-01-2007, 19:12

Well they sent me a standard letter like they hadn't even read mine saying if I wanted to cancel I would have to pay the remaining line rental and giving me the 3 indian call centre number, it's like banging your head against a brick wall. I'm amazed the letter got here at all considering they didn't even seal the envelope at all.

I'm tempted to cancel the direct debit until they respond to my concerns and reply appropriately to my request, and to write a letter explaining why I have cancelled it.

05-01-2007, 23:55

Still waiting for a reply but have spoken to Consumer Direct and have a case number, I intend to pursue it through them. They did tell me to allow them 14 days to reply. If I get the same letter, I will refer back to Consumer Direct and post updates as they happen.
I think the Sunday Times has a consumer page, might consider using that too.

07-01-2007, 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by intheknow

I'm tempted to cancel the direct debit until they respond to my concerns and reply appropriately to my request, and to write a letter explaining why I have cancelled it.

You are at the end of a corridor and you can see a little wooden door.

There is a green sign on the door which says "HELL" in curly black letters.

Dude. Do not open the door.

17-01-2007, 18:26

Still no response to my letter. Second one goes tomorrow, recorded delivery this time.

neo6776 · 06-02-2007, 01:27

Any word back yet?

20-12-2006, 11:12	#1
wavejockglw Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glasgow Posts: 10,276	3: It's £25 to downgrade!! 3 has taken another step to curb the poor-quality business that has harmed it in its dash for connections, by charging downgraders a £25 administration fee. Downgrading customers can only avoid the fee by extending their contract by six months instead. The move comes six weeks after 3 introduced strict downgrading rules, as it tries to stamp out the active encouragement of downgrading as part of the sales pitch of many dealers and retailers. Customers who are willing to pay the fee to downgrade will still have to wait 12 months before they can downgrade on an 18-month contract. Some dealers have expressed concern that the move is retroactive and could cause big problems for dealers whose existing customers who have bought with the expressed intent of downgrading, often by several tiers. One dealer said: 'We aren't worried about the new business. But it's going to cause a massive wave of complaints from existing customers who want to downgrade. They are going to say, “You told me I could drop my tariff to £20 and now you are telling me its going to cost £50 to do that”.' Others have welcomed the change. Another dealer told Mobile: 'It's a good thing to have been introduced as it will stop people from encouraging customers to downgrade, which in turn loses the network money and gives dealers a bad name.' A 3 spokesman said: 'We've been consistently competitive in the market this year and we are committed to partners who give us good-quality business. 'This step is not a significant change and is in line with other steps we've taken this year to deliver quality business. It means there is clarity and consistency for customers.' From Mobile Today Website http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/content...sp?men=0&sub=1

20-12-2006, 15:45	#2
intheknow Banned User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bristol Posts: 4,837	This is great! Surely this detrimental change in T&C's means you can cancel your 3 contract? Like when they put the prices up and people got out of their 18 month contracts...? You can't be bound to a changed contract that you didn't agree to in the first place. They agreed when you signed up that you could downgrade if you wanted after 6 months and 1 step at a time. http://www.tescophones.com/help/medi...Conditions.pdf Ignore the tesco link it's the only place I could find Three's full T&C's Section 4.1 (II) Last edited by intheknow : 20-12-2006 at 16:06.

20-12-2006, 18:11	#5
wavejockglw Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glasgow Posts: 10,276	Hopefully the 'detrimental clause' will apply as many will be caught out by this change. 3 are not the only ones tightning up as Orange have also introduced limits on when customers can downgarde (details at www.mobiletoday.co.uk). Many customers have been mis-sold contracts by sales staff deliberately in major outlets. I have been told by staff in national chains to buy a deal and simply reduce to a lower one after 6 months when I have been shopping around. Dealers get big commissions on 3's VTT 1100 tarriff and can offer better quality phones free whilst making very big margins. This is a £45 a month deal and if one buys that now on an 18 month contract it would be 12 months before you could downgrade and even then you could only move to VTT 700 at £35 a month and you would have to pay £25 for the privilage. 3 should have made this new administration charge or contract extension apply to new customers only as it is not fair on the retailers or customers who bought deals to be subjected to additional punitive charges that did'nt apply when they enetered into the deal. A very poorly thought out move by 3 that shafts their own customers rather than stopping the mis-selling that they and their dealers have benefitted from. Another reason to beware of 3 when considering a mobile and many will have good reason not to trust or recommend them after being affected by this. Last edited by wavejockglw : 20-12-2006 at 18:19.

17-01-2007, 18:26	#20
epsomsalts Posts: n/a	Still no response to my letter. Second one goes tomorrow, recorded delivery this time. Last edited by epsomsalts : 17-01-2007 at 18:26. Reason: spelling

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20-12-2006, 16:33	#3
intheknow Banned User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bristol Posts: 4,837	Sorry 10.1 D

20-12-2006, 17:52	#4
dawson Posts: n/a	Only if you request to cancel within 1 month of being advised of the change (so the clock's ticking!)...and then they'll probably just allow the downgrade for free rather than allow you to terminate the contract. The contract (4.3) also states that any changes that could be detrimental to your terms require 1 months notice from them anyway.

21-12-2006, 03:51	#6
intheknow Banned User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bristol Posts: 4,837	Well I tried to cancel on the phone today and they refused on the grounds that those terms don't apply, I asked for a supervisor and spoke to them who agreed that this was a change to the Terms and Conditions rather than a price change, I then asked to speak to somebody higher and got the same reply. I've written to the customer services in glasgow with the following: Thee Customer Services PO Box 333 Glasgow GL2 9AG Dear Sir / Madam, I would like to give 30 days notice to terminate my contract as I feel the new £ 25 charge being introduced to change down price plan is likely to be detrimental to me. The original agreement with three stated that I could lower my price plan free after 6 months and then change up or down in steps. The Terms and Conditions state that I may cancel: (d) Within one month of a detrimental variation to your agreement. You can end the agreement within one month of us telling you about a variation to your agreement (which includes your Price Plan) which is likely to be of detriment to you. You must give written notice to 3 Customer Services within that month and your agreement will finish at the end of the month, once we receive your notice. (A Cancellation Fee will not be charged.) Note that the 'agreement' refers to the my complete agreement with Three, not just the price plan I have chosen: About your agreement: 2.1 Your agreement is made up of these Terms for 3 Services and your Price Plan, along with any other terms laid down in the3 Services on the Handset, and in documents we have produced, including the list of Services, User Guide and documents we may produce in the future. Additional terms may apply to any promotional or special offers. As these are not the original Terms I agreed to and a new charge will be of detriment to me I would like to give notice to terminate my contract at no charge.

21-12-2006, 09:37	#7
Sean10 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Plymouth, Devon Posts: 340	It will be very interesting to see what reply you get from 3, if that is what is written in the T&Cs then they have little to stand on.

21-12-2006, 10:53	#8
dawson Posts: n/a	Well Three didn't exactly roll over when people initially tried to cancel their contracts because of price rises either. Ultimately, you may need to pursue the matter through the courts for alleged breach of contract to force them to comply - it really depends how far you wish to press the matter and that is no doubt what Three are going to try and establish.

27-12-2006, 22:41	#9
Satellite John Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: London Posts: 1,825	Quote: Originally Posted by intheknow Well I tried to cancel on the phone today and they refused on the grounds that those terms don't apply, I asked for a supervisor and spoke to them who agreed that this was a change to the Terms and Conditions rather than a price change, I then asked to speak to somebody higher and got the same reply. I've written to the customer services in glasgow with the following: Thee Customer Services PO Box 333 Glasgow GL2 9AG Dear Sir / Madam, I would like to give 30 days notice to terminate my contract as I feel the new £ 25 charge being introduced to change down price plan is likely to be detrimental to me. The original agreement with three stated that I could lower my price plan free after 6 months and then change up or down in steps. The Terms and Conditions state that I may cancel: (d) Within one month of a detrimental variation to your agreement. You can end the agreement within one month of us telling you about a variation to your agreement (which includes your Price Plan) which is likely to be of detriment to you. You must give written notice to 3 Customer Services within that month and your agreement will finish at the end of the month, once we receive your notice. (A Cancellation Fee will not be charged.) Note that the 'agreement' refers to the my complete agreement with Three, not just the price plan I have chosen: About your agreement: 2.1 Your agreement is made up of these Terms for 3 Services and your Price Plan, along with any other terms laid down in the3 Services on the Handset, and in documents we have produced, including the list of Services, User Guide and documents we may produce in the future. Additional terms may apply to any promotional or special offers. As these are not the original Terms I agreed to and a new charge will be of detriment to me I would like to give notice to terminate my contract at no charge. Please do post the result of your exchange with three. I very much want to get out of my three contract too. Cheers.

27-12-2006, 23:36	#10
wavejockglw Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glasgow Posts: 10,276	This policy is a disgrace..... it is detrimental and should count and you should be able to cancel. Rumour has it that 3 will increase prices in January so that is a definate detrimental change but we shall have to wait and see. 3 have been pretty poor in terms of customer care lately.

28-12-2006, 00:24	#11
Throttle Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 21	£25 to downgrade Im with three myself and my half price 6 month is due to end soon i might get a letter sent myself if you have much luck ....why my actual service has been no trouble i dont like fact that they are not sticking to there own t&c that i signed too and i couldnt downgrade at a later date without paying £25 is a rip off tbh .

28-12-2006, 03:15	#12
intheknow Banned User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bristol Posts: 4,837	I'm still waiting to hear, they haven't relied yet!

28-12-2006, 18:49	#13
bluechang Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,836	if you don't get anywhere with three , may i also suggest speaking with your local trading standards authority and/or the citizens advice bureau, as the company are practically forcving you to stay in a contract you didnt sign upto!!! If you take the connection paperwork you signed when taking the contract out, they should be able to give you some assistance. If all fails, it may be necessary to take legal advice and legal action.

28-12-2006, 19:39	#14
epsomsalts Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally Posted by intheknow I'm still waiting to hear, they haven't relied yet! I too have just written a complaint based on your letter. I only found out last night when I phoned to downgrade my plan. The irony was I was going to add some extras and would still have been paying them the same amount. I have added to my letter that I am contacting my Trading Standards office, which I will do tomorrow.

05-01-2007, 03:45	#15
intheknow Banned User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bristol Posts: 4,837	bump still waiting for a reply from three anyone else heard anything?

05-01-2007, 08:44	#16
zounds Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Kent Posts: 9,781	Quote: Originally Posted by intheknow bump still waiting for a reply from three anyone else heard anything? Just been reading the thread here: http://www.3g.co.uk/3GForum/showthre...t=49294&page=6 From the old t+c's: Quote: "you can ask to change to the next lower available Price Plan than the one you originally joined us on (on such terms as specified by 3)." As someone else said: Quote: it is a problem with the dealers promising one thing, rather than anything 3 have done technicaly wrong. Last edited by zounds : 05-01-2007 at 08:50.

05-01-2007, 19:12	#17
intheknow Banned User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bristol Posts: 4,837	Well they sent me a standard letter like they hadn't even read mine saying if I wanted to cancel I would have to pay the remaining line rental and giving me the 3 indian call centre number, it's like banging your head against a brick wall. I'm amazed the letter got here at all considering they didn't even seal the envelope at all. I'm tempted to cancel the direct debit until they respond to my concerns and reply appropriately to my request, and to write a letter explaining why I have cancelled it.

05-01-2007, 23:55	#18
epsomsalts Posts: n/a	Still waiting for a reply but have spoken to Consumer Direct and have a case number, I intend to pursue it through them. They did tell me to allow them 14 days to reply. If I get the same letter, I will refer back to Consumer Direct and post updates as they happen. I think the Sunday Times has a consumer page, might consider using that too.

07-01-2007, 09:19	#19
UNcabled Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally Posted by intheknow I'm tempted to cancel the direct debit until they respond to my concerns and reply appropriately to my request, and to write a letter explaining why I have cancelled it. You are at the end of a corridor and you can see a little wooden door. There is a green sign on the door which says "HELL" in curly black letters. Dude. Do not open the door.

06-02-2007, 01:27	#21
neo6776 Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Dundee, Scotland ♂ Posts: 9,026	Any word back yet?

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3: It's £25 to downgrade!!