[haggis999]

I have a Sony TV with four Scart inputs connected to a DVD Player, a DVD Recorder, a VHS Video Recorder and a Sky+ Digibox. The TV can display the output of any of these four devices. So far, so good. My problem lies with Line 3 Scart connections between these devices. As far as I can see, it is only possible to make one such connection.

Before I bought the DVD Recorder, the Sky+ Digibox was attached to my Video Recorder via the Line 3 Scart connections. This enabled me to make VHS tape recordings of Sky programmes. At present, the Sky+ Digibox is attached to my DVD Recorder via Line 3 Scart so that I can make DVD recordings of Sky programmes. However, I have lost the ability to record Sky on VHS tape (which I sometimes want to do on behalf of friends).

Other than replugging Scart cables, is there a way to enable VHS and DVD recording of Sky to coexist?

David

[gomezz]

What is this Line 3 SCART you speak of? Is it some Sonyism?

[haggis999]

It may well be an example of Sony-speak. All the kit I have mentioned, apart from the digibox, is manufactured by Sony.

The DVD Recorder, Video Recorder and DVD Player all label the Scart connector used for attaching to the TV as Line 1. The DVD Recorder and Video Recorder label the second Scart connector as Line 3. The DVD Player labels its second Scart as Line 2.

However, labels apart, have you any suggestions to offer for enabling Sky programmes to be recorded on both videotape and DVD? Would this perhaps require some sort of Scart switch box?

David

[niall campbell]

on the sony tv you can change the scart settings e.g change the way signals are sent . some will not send the signal back down the cable to the vcr but you can change this sometimes.

you will need to play about with it and all scarts have to be fully pinned to accept signals both ways

i would tell your mates to buy a dvd player and record onto dvd. use re-recordable discs or rewritable whatever you want to call it

[Scorpio]

Simple, same as my set up:
VCR AV1 (in/out scart) ---> Sky+ VCR scart (the top one......)
Sky+ TV Scart ---> DVDR AV2 (set Sky video setting and DVDR input to RGB)
DVDR AV1 ---> TV AV1 (an RGB scart)
DVD player ---> any other RGB enable scart on the TV

You can record from Sky+ to VHS or to DVD or play VHS or record 2 Sky channels and watch a DVD on the 2nd player at the same time.

Rgds,
Scorp

[niall campbell]

SKY+ av1 to TV av2

sky+ av2 to DVD av3

DVD av1 to TV av 1

DVD av2 to VIDEO av 2

VIDEO av1 to TV av 4

for sony equipment as sony dvd recorders are well equiped and use smartlink which connect all sony equipment together.

to record from dvd choose input 2/av2 on channel selector and press rec, simple

[haggis999]

Hi Scorpio,
Your proposed solution does not have either the Sky+ digibox or the VCR directly connected to a TV Scart socket (two of which would remain unused). Have I understood your explanation correctly? Does it degrade the Sky or VCR picture or sound in any way? I note that the VCR in particular is feeding its signal via two other devices before it reaches the TV.

Also, how does the TV select the required signal when VCR, Sky and DVDR all share the same Scart connection to the TV?

David

[haggis999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by niall campbell

SKY+ av1 to TV av2

sky+ av2 to DVD av3

DVD av1 to TV av 1

DVD av2 to VIDEO av 2

VIDEO av1 to TV av 4

Niall,
Thanks for the help, but I'm confused by your post. You don't make a distinction between my DVD Player and my DVD Recorder and your description of Scart connectors does not match my kit, e.g. the Sky+ box simply labels its Scarts as 'VCR' and 'TV'. For the Scart labelling on my other kit please see my second post.

David

[gomezz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggis999

The DVD Recorder, Video Recorder and DVD Player all label the Scart connector used for attaching to the TV as Line 1. The DVD Recorder and Video Recorder label the second Scart connector as Line 3. The DVD Player labels its second Scart as Line 2.

However, labels apart, have you any suggestions to offer for enabling Sky programmes to be recorded on both videotape and DVD? Would this perhaps require some sort of Scart switch box?

It sounds like it may be to do with the kind of video signal each SCART supports. Ideally you would want to watch and to record in the best format (RGB, S-Video or Composite - Best to Worst) supported by each device. A you seem to have got some answers from others, I will leave them to it.

[haggis999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

It sounds like it may be to do with the kind of video signal each SCART supports. Ideally you would want to watch and to record in the best format (RGB, S-Video or Composite - Best to Worst) supported by each device. A you seem to have got some answers from others, I will leave them to it.

Gomezz,
I think you may be missing the point of my original post. The quality of connection was not my core problem (that only arose with Scorpio's proposed solution).

I'm already directly connecting each device to the TV using the best available Scart connection. Two of the TV's four Scart connections support RGB and these are being used for the Sky+ digibox and the DVD player (the most important sources in my setup).

My problem lies purely with recording from Sky. The additional Scart connectors allow me to connect the Sky box to either the VCR or the DVD recorder, but not both - but I want both options to be available. How to achieve this without degrading the signal quality I get at present is what I would like to know. I don't yet have a clear answer from anyone, so any contribution would be much appreciated.

David

---

Last edited by haggis999 : 31-12-2006 at 14:59.

[gomezz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggis999

Gomezz,
I think you may be missing the point of my original post. The quality of connection was not my core problem (that only arose with Scorpio's proposed solution).

Not really. You were asking for help with a cabling problem. Without knowing the capabilities of the various bits of kit and of the SCART connectors then it is not possible to advise an optimum solution.

[Scorpio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggis999

Hi Scorpio,
Your proposed solution does not have either the Sky+ digibox or the VCR directly connected to a TV Scart socket (two of which would remain unused). Have I understood your explanation correctly? Does it degrade the Sky or VCR picture or sound in any way? I note that the VCR in particular is feeding its signal via two other devices before it reaches the TV.

Also, how does the TV select the required signal when VCR, Sky and DVDR all share the same Scart connection to the TV?

David

Hi Haggis, what i have proposed is a pretty 'standard' set up for these devices.

A VCR is usually 'upstream' of a parent device like Sky+ or DVD because you ma run into Macrovision issues if you try to play through the VCR.

The DVDR is downstream of Sky+ so that you can feed the DVDR the RGB (best) signal from Sky.

Just because you have 4 scarts on your TV, you dont have to use them all. To answer your question re device switching: there is a little voltage increase passed through the scart pin (No 8, I think) that sends a message down the line telling all devices that it has been turned on or that 'play' has been pressed.

EG, with the VCR, Sky and DVDR all turned on, the TV AV1 will be showing the DVDR signal. Press play on the VCR and the picture will change to the VCR. Press stop and it revers to the DVDR. Have a little play around, its really very easy.

Finally, no, it does not degrade when you pass it through. It also passes through fine when devices are in standby.

Rgds,
Scorp

[Scorpio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggis999

My problem lies purely with recording from Sky. The additional Scart connectors allow me to connect the Sky box to either the VCR or the DVD recorder, but not both - but I want both options to be available. How to achieve this without degrading the signal quality I get at present is what I would like to know. I don't yet have a clear answer from anyone, so any contribution would be much appreciated.

David

Yes, you do - I have advised a solution which allows you to connect Sky+ to both VCR (via composite) and to DVDR (via RGB). In turn, this RGB signal (from Sky or DVDR) is passed to the TV by the DVDR (as is the composite signal from the VCR).

Additionally, i have recommended that you connect the stnd alone DVD player to AV2 (either by RGB, if supported, or by S-video) to allow use of the DVD while other kit may be tied up in recording or archiving.

Rgds,
Scorp

[niall campbell]

has your sony dvd recorder not got 3 scarts plus a fourth connection which is s-video mine has

why have you got a dvd player and dvd-rec attached to your tv??

your tv could send the signal it receives say av2 to av3 for example.

so imagine your dvd player on av2 and video on av3. you press play on dvd player and record on video.choose input 1/av1 on front of video and you record dvd. simple eh?

however you need to go into av settings in your tv and then it gets complicated as you can send signal from av2 scart to av3 scart or s-video so take your time and think about it

[Scorpio]

To consider using the TV scarts to send some sort of signal back to a recording device is not what you should be doing - the only occasion (that I can think of) when this is useful is when you are using a TV with a digital tuner to source a VCR/DVDR without one.

Just set up the devices as I described - as I said earlier, these are the recommended connections from the Digital TV Group

Rgds,
Scorp

[haggis999]

Hi Scorpio,
When I said earlier that I did not yet have a clear answer, my intended emphasis was on the word 'clear' as there were still several unanswered questions at that stage. Your latest posts have provided a lot more information and a link to an authoritative source - for which much thanks.

I have not yet had time to properly assimilate all the new information or experiment with your suggested setup so may return later with additional questions.

Your assistance is greatly appreciated. You are one of the key contributors that make DS such a useful resource!

Regards,
David

[Scorpio]

David, thank you for your confidence in me! I have spent many an hour (happy?) setting up systems for friends and family and am happy to pass on my practical experience. In fact, I have learnt so much here on DS through the very interaction we are having now. I will check on your progress later.

Good luck and Happy New Year.

Rgds,
Scorp

[niall campbell]

to send some sort of signal is not wrong. in the av set ups in modern tvs they allow you use more of the 21 pins in a scart. thats why if you look in the back of some appliances there can be an arrow pointing two ways and some are one way.

this allows a rgb signal to travel both ways. so you could watch sky on av1 while you have set the dvd-rec on av2 to record a video from av3. its quite simple. however it is confusing espically as when you go into av settings you can shift where the signal goes and into different cables. e.g av2 to av4 s-video or av2 to av4 scart.

so if you have a camcorder, video player, dvd player and dvd-rec you can inter-react with one another.

[Scorpio]

I understand that scart is multi directional depending on the pins used. Are you suggesting that you use the TV as a 'router' to direct AV signals in and out of attached devices? As I said, this sounds a little complex to a beginner and there must be the problem of what happens when the TV channel is changed?

Surely, a simple daisy chain with the TV just monitoring the end product of that chain is the most straight forward?

Also, by setting up in the way i described, the stand alone DVD payer can be used while other devices archive previously recorded material.

I'm not challenging what you say (I know you are correct), it's just that it seems more complex like that - to me anyway.

Rgds,
Scorp

[niall campbell]

it is complex, thats the problem.

however it is another option and I guess with all the machines that are trying to connect to the tv e.g x boxes, dvd players etc tv manufactors are having to look at the humble tv and add extra software to it.

it makes it easier for me to edit recordings but it is complicated. however you do use less scart leads.

I cant get my head around why he uses a standalone dvd player and a dvd-rec. but thats why we are all different.

the av settings have been around for about six years now and in both my toshiba and sony.

saying all that I think you have to set up your equipment the way you find easier. If you took 10 setups they would all be different.

We are both right and hopefully he can connect up without thinking too much about it..... sometimes you have to step a pace before you jump forward

cheers anyway and happy new year

[haggis999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by niall campbell

has your sony dvd recorder not got 3 scarts plus a fourth connection which is s-video mine has

why have you got a dvd player and dvd-rec attached to your tv??

Niall,
No, all of my kit (other than the TV) has only two Scart sockets, labelled as previously posted. None of Sony's current range of DVD recorders appear to have more than two Scarts.

Your question about having two DVD devices is a valid one, but I have my reasons. My Sony DVP-NS900 player was bought in 2002. I went looking for a fairly up-market machine to play commercial DVDs with quality of picture and sound being the primary factors. When I bought my Sony RDR-HXD860 DVD recorder in 2006, my primary aim was to get a good quality recorder with a large hard disk and a digital tuner. As it happens, both units cost nearly £400. My assumption is that the dedicated player is likely to have the edge for playback purposes. That would certainly be true if both units were bought at the same time. In my case, any improvements that have been made in DVD technology since 2002 will muddy the waters a bit. I have yet to do a proper comparison of the playback capabilities of each unit. However, even if I find that there is little to choose between them, having both allows me to watch a DVD while recording a TV programme to DVD.

By the way, you have not yet clarified your own proposed solution (ref my post of 13:32 yesterday). I still don't understand what connections you recommend.

David

[niall campbell]

yep i didnt answer your question too clearly and now understand why you want to use your good standalone dvd player

i have sony dvd-rec rdr-hx510 with hard drive

it has 2 scart sockets and 2 s-video/ composite connections

I would take it your tv is quite modern and has four scarts. mine has 3 and a fourth connection is composite

taking your tv is modern i am presuming it has smartlink and has to go on av1 for this to work. also your tv aerial should go to sky box first then dvd rec then tv. this is for the smartlink to work.

everything will work fine if you dont do this, its only a suggestion.

this what i would do if i was you

your sky box has 2 rf outputs. use them. rf1 to your dvd-rec and the rf2 goes to the aerial in on your video recorder. this will allow you to record sky to dvd-rec and to vhs if you want. THUS taking everything into account presuming your tv has 4 scarts this would be my setup

dvd-rec av1 to tv av1

sky av1 to tv av2

sky av2 to dvd-rec av2

dvd av1 to tv av 3

video av1 to tv av 4

aerial from roof goes to sky box aerial in

sky box rf1 out to dvd-rec aerial in

sky box rf2 out to video aerial in

dvd-rec aerial out to tv aerial in

now to rec from sky to vhs tune video to pick up rf signal from sky. make it number 6 as you will still get rf signal looped through the sky box.

select channel 6 on video and record from sky. anything you are watching on sky will record on video.

now i hope you are not using sky in another room. the quality will be quite clear. the dilemma you have is your standalone dvd player as probally av3 is not rgb enabled so you are not getting the best results from it. the rf2 signal output is good from sky boxes and adequate for recording to vhs

hope this helps and is only a suggestion

[Scorpio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by niall campbell

rf1 to your dvd-rec. this will allow you to record sky to dvd-rec.

Nial, you're not really suggesting using RF as an input to an RGB enabled DVD recorder are you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by niall campbell

now i hope you are not using sky in another room........

as you wont be able to because you've just tied up RF2 which is designed to accept the 2-way signal from a Sky Magic Eye remote controller

Quote:

Originally Posted by niall campbell

the dilemma you have is your standalone dvd player as probally av3 is not rgb enabled so you are not getting the best results from it.

which is why I suggested that it connect to TV AV2 (RGB hopefully)

Quote:

Originally Posted by niall campbell

the rf2 signal output is good from sky boxes and adequate for recording to vhs.

but does not allow for widescreen broadcasts in 16:9 which would happen if the VCRs AV1 scart socket was connected to the Sky VCR scart as in my example.

I'm not trying to knock your post but, if we are going to give advice to someone then it has to have a good reason to vary from the established standards. Connecting devices via RF lines is definitely not standard and loses all the benefits of scart: widescreen switching, scart control on play/stop, RGB quality.

I just feel that there are two many 'difficulties' with your set up suggestion and that David (Haggis) would be far better off with the simple set up I (and the DTV) suggests.

In fairness, i havent commented to David on the required RF set up as this was not asked for. If there is a requirement, I will help if I can.

Rgds,
Scorp

Rgds,
Scorp

[niall campbell]

you need to pick up the rf signal to send to video. if the rf 2 signal is set to widescreen and not 4.3 he will record in 16.9 and also in stereo and will go to the tv in widescreen and be shown on the tv in widescreen and stereo.

the quality o picture from rf2 is not a problem.

why does haggis not find if I am talking crap or not. the system i have laid out is straightforward and easy to use and does not degrade his rf aerial quality.

it seemed quite difficult for scorpio to comprehend a modern tv to route signals down fully pinned scarts with a universal based system. you are complicating haggis further and i would rather wait for haggis to reply. i have gone right back to basics for him which is why i included the positioning of his rf leads

[haggis999]

Niall,
I think I have now worked out what you mean. I assume by Sky av1 and av2 you really mean the Scart sockets labelled TV and VCR respectively. However, your proposed layout raises a potential quality issue. As I understand it, the signal available via RF is inferior to that available via Scart. Your solution therefore appears to offer a poorer quality signal for videotape recordings from Sky compared to that for DVD recordings. I already have full RF connectivity to permit viewing of Sky and videotape signals in other rooms (using a distribution amp in my attic) but I want to retain maximum available quality for all recordings.

I have not yet fully analysed Scorpio's suggestions, but he has made no mention of RF connections and appears to be offering a Scart-only solution. Is that not likely to offer a better result?

By the way, let me make a plea for the use of initial capital letters to indicate the beginning of your sentences. Call me a pedantic old goat if you will, but adhering to such a convention greatly improves the readability of any text. Mind you, missing out initial capitals is much less of a problem than 'SHOUTING' everything in uppercase!

Best regards,
David

PS - I wrote this before seeing the last two posts.