Becca, I see there is really no point in continuing this conversation when all you do is reiterate that nobody else knows as much as you do and continue to be offensive. It's sad really, but there you are.

You are a dedicated fan of a particular performer, just like other forum members, and cannot bear anyone who expresses a different view to yours - it must be because we are stupid in comparison to you is your only thought process.

Do you enjoy every single form of Dance?

I did not enjoy the exhibition dance I saw on SCD by Hanna and Partner, and I will not be bullied or intimidated by you or any other so called *expert* on this forum into being afraid to express my opinion. Goodnight!

I have not once called myself an 'expert' and certainly don't consider myself to be, thanks. And a bully? Me! Ha! Hardly! I think I'm being perfectly civilised. I'm allowed to voice my thoughts just as much as you are, and I don't consider you to be 'bullying' me at all. What a strange thing to say!

I have no intention of causing offense, unlike you, seeing as though you clearly highlighted my very first and very innocent comment in the knowledge that I adore Hanna and intentionally directed your following comment, which was most certainly not a nice one, to me . . . I mean, what's the sense in that? Telling ME not to be offensive when you're doing so yourself? Hypocritical, I say.

In response to your question . . . yes, I most certainly do enjoy every form of dance where technique, artistry and precision are involved, (After all, what is dance without them!) although I only specialise in Standard and Latin myself. I particularly love Ballet for those reasons.
Last edited by * Becca * : 07-01-2007 at 00:54

Can I just ask this again - does Becca know of more accomplished AT performers? Only in Buenos Aires, surely ?

Sorry about that! I didn't realise at first that you were directing the question to me, I thought it was just for anybody to answer.

As they are the world champions, I expect that there will be no better competitors than them. I know of none, but then again I don't follow Argentine Tango closely enough to know for sure.

I watched them perfom their Argentine Tango live in early October and have to say that it was fantastic. They are truly worthy of their numerous titles.

Although, saying that, I wasn't particularly a fan of the way that the routine they performed on SCD was presented . . . I would have much preferred them to have stuck with their beautifully stunning routine from the Night Of 100 Stars and performed that, as it was an absolutely fantastic performance. Just the pair of them and the dancefloor, nothing else . . . it was pleasing enough in the simplicity that it was presented without including extra performers to supposedly enhance the show quality of it.
Last edited by * Becca * : 07-01-2007 at 01:08

Bullying I would describe as when every poster who comes on to say they didn't enjoy Hanna's exhibition you question their intelligence or whether they *know about Dance* - I would say that was assuming yourself to be an expert.

If you think that everybody who loves Dance loves *all* forms of Dance you would be quite mistaken. I personally am not a fan of hip hop or the type of Exhibition we have been arguing about tonight. Some people don't appreciate Folk Dancing - I do. I certainly wouldn't assume they were ignorant if they didn't.

I'm also passionate about particular dancers, and I don't pretend that I'm not, or am an objective voice, it's quite revealing that your feelings about Hanna are so wrapped up in personal emotion - I wouldn't call that objective, you're a Fan. Nothing wrong with that at all, but why can't you see that you're merely expressing an opinion like every one else instead of being *superior* and stating that your opinions are *fact*, and if we disagree we're *wrong*. I found that offensive.

Thanks for that I completely agree - throughout both the 2005 and 2006 AT Pro Performances on SCD, I only had eyes for Vincent and Flavia - the others were completely superfluous.

I do admit that I think there is a certain amount of ignorance from some people who are unwilling to 'look outside of the box' so to speak - just because they are familiar with one style of dance and that is all they are accustomed to seeing, they don't like to give any other styles a chance. I've come across that so often in the past, so I guess I tend to assume that is most people's reason for being unwilling to appreciate anything other than what they know and love.

I certainly don't love all forms of dance. I agree, I also dislike hip hop dancing as to me there is no clear sense of technique or artistry involved, although I do appreciate it is predominately about performance, I do not think that performance alone is enough to make dance dance.

I don't think you are wrong in having an opinion that differs. All I disagree with is how you stated it so harshly, which I interpreted as being a little cruel. The use of the word 'ugly' especially, as I can't see how some of the incredible things Hanna can create - bear in mind I'm not talking about particular figures, lifts or lines here - can be described as that. They are art. It just upsets me and I end up taking it personally.

The only thing that I state as a fact here is that Hanna is a brilliant dancer. Whether or not anybody likes or dislikes that particular performance that was shown, it still remains true.

It just takes you to another level completely when you see a performance of such a standard; I don't blame you for admiring Vincent and Flavia throughout . . . nobody I've ever seen comes close.

The true wonder and beauty of dance - (like many art forms) it has the ability to move and touch all of us, at whatever level we're able to appreciate it. I'm getting a bit pretentious and in over my head now so I'd better push off Night!

Okay it seems to have calmed down a little in here, so I thought it might be safe to post.

I am not going to mention Hannah's showdance, although I have very strong opinions on it.

My favourite pro dances ever are the jive from SCD 3 and the AT from this year.

My favorite Pro dance is the group Pro Cha cha,....Matthew Cutler and Jimmy Jordan,.....*thud*

I too have watched th discussion develop and feel I can now post something .
I have strong opinions about the showdance of Hanna and Victor , for a number of reasons . Bit afraid to express them and that should not be the case as I would not be offensieve or post anything untoward .However I FEEL I cannot make my point .
I loved this year's AT demonstration, and this year's jive .In fact I always enjoy the professional demonstrations .

I fell compelled to comment about the remarks made about the relative standard of the current pro dancers on SCD . I found them condescending in the extreme , and full of implied criticism .They are only opinions and we all have those .

Some of the retired Pros , such as Karen were the VERY best in their time competing and it is impossioble to compare the professioanl achievements of those still competing and those not . Karen won so much and achieved so much , the Carl Alan Award , coaching awards , she even invented a step which is now accepted internationally .
I enjoy dances for a variety of reasons , for me performance is one of the most important factors and so I prefer some dances to others for that fact alone .

It's a shame you feel you can't express your opinions without being vilified, though I do know what you mean. Sometimes it gets a little heated and I too feel a little wary of saying exactly what I feel about some Pro dances - the showdance in particular!

However, I would like to say I completely respect all the professional dancers, clearly they are all dedicated and talented in their own field!

I think it's a shame as well, you shouldn't be made to feel like that. Don't let the fact that some people take things way to personal keep you from expressing your opinion.

I didn't like Hanna and Victor's showdance either, I think there's nothing wrong with saying that.

I love most of them. I don't know if they have more professional dances this series or they are better that I remember more. I hope they can keep this up and have at least one professional dance every week next year. This year they seem to focus a lot on Vincent and Flavia, I hope next year we can have the chance to see more of the other professional dancers. All and all, well done to them all and big thanks.

My favourite pro dance was the medley at the start, with special mention for Anton and Erin's quickstep contained within it and Nicole and Matthew's paso.

Like many others I strongly disliked Hanna and Victor's exhibition dance and I don't think that makes me "narrow-minded". I have not seen Hanna dance often and fully accept that she may be a fantastic dancer but that dance did not appeal to me at all. It looked ugly and was a disappointment. It seemed to me like there was no connection between the dance and the music they were dancing to, and to me that is the definition of dance, using your body in a way to interpret music.

This is my opinion, and I would prefer if others did not tell me I was wrong, because an opinion is personal and their opinion is not necessarily more valid than mine.

Oh, and I may not know much about exhibition dance, but I studied ballet for 12 years, am currently taking latin dance lessons and watch any dance competition I come across, so I do try to broaden my horizons as much as I can.

I too dance and have taken Latin classes for nearly 20 years, I have never achieved a high standard and I am no expert, but I know what I like and what I don't......

I loved all the pro dances except Hanna and Victor's, in fact I don't even count it now when I think of the SCD4 pro dances, made easier by the fact that neither of them was on the show.

My fave - really hard to choose! I loved V&F's AT, but I could be biased as I go to AT classes and love the dance. The group paso was brilliant.. I think that's my choice for now. Must say the pro dances were the highlight of the show for me, gave me something to aspire to in my S&L classes!
Last edited by pasodabble : 07-01-2007 at 11:59

That was great and I also liked the Group Samba and the AT.

I have not once said that anybody was 'wrong' for disliking the Exhibition performance. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, it would be absolutely pathetic if I were trying to change that, which I'm most certainly not.

All that I think is wrong is when people completely disrespect the performers by making horrible comments about the number, with no regard for the artistry and obvious talent that was demonstrated within it.

Am I so wrong for thinking that?

I think the problem is that you think we are disrespecting the performers by thinking the dance is ugly, whereas I feel that that is just my opinion. I'm sure Hanna and Victor are lovely people and I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but I don't think it was artistic. Athletic yes, but artistic, no.

I agree with you, I do think it was ugly too. However, I have respect for them as performers, just not my cup of tea - that's all.

No .
But that is how you SEEM to dismiss the work of others , so it is grossly out of order to not allow us to dislike something you adore .
I thought Hanna and Victor's dance , if it can be called that ,was very clever , worth my admiration but I did not like it .
It was ugly and for me there was no connection between the two .I did not like the catsuit at all and Victor did not dance . It was very similar to the acrobatic acts from Eastern europe and the USSR which we used to see in the circus . I admired their skill but it left me cold .
That is personal choice .
The second reason is that Both Tess and Bruce held it up as an example , Bruce even used the word inspiration , for the showdances in the final .

As a result we had Maren's very uplifting dance , again brilliant lifts , I loved it ,
BUT I would have rathered see them DANCE . AND it sparked the particualrly abusive and offensive thread about the showdance .
For that reason alone ,I sincerely wish SCD had not asked Hanna and Victor to perform , at least not at that juncture .
It should never have been held up as an example of the type of freestyle dance Karen and Lilia had to choreograph .

As Len would say Not my cup of tea .

I admire ALL of these supremely talented and highly trained pro dancers , but that doesn't mean I like all they do .
Last edited by arddunol : 07-01-2007 at 12:40

Argentine Tango Cos Vincent & Flavia are amazing! And foxtrot, cos I was in the studio. And V&F were amazing!!!

I also have a huge problem with that. The performances in the final were South American Showdance performances, and NOT Exhibition. I don't understand why they brought Victor and Hanna in to demonstrate a totally different style of dance.

To date, it's only Colin and Erin who haven't danced South American Showdance, so I'm sure that all along they were EXPECTING both Matt and Mark to perform it in the final also. Although I was under the impression, due to Matt's music choice, that he would dance Classic Showdance, also due to his preference for Standard.

It doesn't make sense to me.

If anybody doesn't understand what I mean by artistry in the Exhibition performance, I'm not talking about what was danced, but how it was danced.

Look at the squeeze and action in Hanna's body, her hip rotation, the way she turns. Even in the Latin American world, she is unrivalled for this.

That's purely art.