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Debranding firmware
CitySlicker
07-01-2007
Is it me, or are mobile companies doing their hardest to make phones function to only a fraction what they should? I've just downloaded some software to (perfectly legally) debrand my phone from the network. Because it's a 3G phone, the operator had disabled being able to switch to GSM mode only (which is useful if 3G coverage is patchy - otherwise calls sometimes get disconnected when switching between GSM and 3G).

The shop I purchased my phone from wanted £25 for something I've done myself at home, and the operator was running on old firmware - version 4 point something, compared to version 6 for the unbranded official firmware.

Seems like the £15 unlocking fee is no longer enough (which I'll still have to pay; the software won't unlock the phone, it just allows you to load on the manufacturer's standard software) - the shops want a part of it by charging a debranding fee!
BoBaDoB
08-01-2007
if you de brand your phone it actually voids the warranty you have on it i believe because in order to do that you need to change the id code of the phone to another country. and on the 3 network you are not allowed to roam to 2.5g as they have to piggyback off a differnent network and it costs them money for you being on 2.5g
sweep9
08-01-2007
Just debranded my Nokia 6680 as I left orange ages ago and been on O2 PAYG since (Paid Orange £20 to get it unlocked). As the OP says, some shops / sites were wanting £8 to £15 to change the software / debrand!

I made a mistake though because the software version I was recommended to set my phone to turned out to be the software for the '3' network! Didn't take too long to change it to the generic Nokia software tho.

It's amazing how much quicker the phone runs without the orange side bar on it!
CitySlicker
08-01-2007
Course you're 'allowed' to use 2g networks on the 3 network! It's just they don't want you to as it will cost them money.

The point is, at the end of the contract that phone is yours. So why keep it restricted? Vodafone for instance restrict certain music playback for digital rights reasons, yet they're the only operator who do.

Branding is one of the worst plagues to hit consumers since network locking as at best your phone has the original network logos all over it; at worst it can have only a tiny proportion of features it was designed to have. That makes for unreliable reviews - how do you know you're getting the same functionality as a phone that's been reviewed?
Garyo2
08-01-2007
Originally Posted by CitySlicker:
“Course you're 'allowed' to use 2g networks on the 3 network! It's just they don't want you to as it will cost them money.

The point is, at the end of the contract that phone is yours. So why keep it restricted? Vodafone for instance restrict certain music playback for digital rights reasons, yet they're the only operator who do.

Branding is one of the worst plagues to hit consumers since network locking as at best your phone has the original network logos all over it; at worst it can have only a tiny proportion of features it was designed to have. That makes for unreliable reviews - how do you know you're getting the same functionality as a phone that's been reviewed?”

You will find that if 3 catch you forcing your phone to use a 2G service often then you could be liable for disconnection as it breaks their terms and conditions.
CitySlicker
09-01-2007
Again more wrong information! I've been through the T&C's, and the closest they come to what you're saying is unfair use of the service in general. There is no mention anywhere about it being against T&C's to use 2G only. What about those who live in rural areas with no 3G coverage at all, who only ever use 2G? That just makes that argument fall to pieces.
Sean10
09-01-2007
I have a Nokia N80 on Vodafone, can anyone point me in the right direction of a reliable debrander? Also have a couple other handset that I would like to unlocked/debranded.

Sean
sweep9
09-01-2007
I searched on the web to do mine and found that the best and easiest debrander is the Genuine Nokia Update Software itself with the help of a program called NSS ("Nemesis Service Suite").

You also need to know the software number for your phone. Do a search for "product code N80"

Also when you do look on certain websites, they say you need a program called GSM MAGIC. You no longer need this program. NSS can do all the tasks you need itself.

Remember, taking Vodaphone software off their phones while it's under warranty will invalidate it!
CitySlicker
09-01-2007
I used Nemesis to change my product code. Sweep is right in saying you will lose warranty, but there's no way I'm going back to a branded firmware - it is well worth it. Once you've changed your product code as Sweep describes, you then launch the Nokia software updater which you should have already. Check and pay close attention when you start it that it has recognised your phone correctly (the wrong model and you'll break your phone), and if it comes up right you'll get a message that updated software is available. Use that and you'll be up and running.

At the moment the software will not allow SIM unlocking of BB5 phones, which yours is one of them. There's no public software to allow this, and there's only one piece of commercial equipment (costing around £200) which can do it. I wouldn't be surprised if this changes very soon though. We waited long enough for the functions NSS has given us, it eventually arrived. I can't see it being too long before SIM unlocking software is available too.
Last edited by CitySlicker : 09-01-2007 at 18:12
Garyo2
09-01-2007
Originally Posted by CitySlicker:
“Again more wrong information! I've been through the T&C's, and the closest they come to what you're saying is unfair use of the service in general. There is no mention anywhere about it being against T&C's to use 2G only. What about those who live in rural areas with no 3G coverage at all, who only ever use 2G? That just makes that argument fall to pieces.”

What about clause 9.1 (g) this states 3 have the right to suspend your service if they believe you have had your phone unlocked via ANY unauthorised method.

Other parts of the contract namely 5.4 state the software is licensed to you by the manufacturer for use with 3 software and that you are on a limited license. This limited license being you cannot make changes to the software. By debranding you are making changes to the software and thus breaking your licence agreement, which in turn is breaking your contractual obligation with 3 because it states you are NOT allowed to alter the software.

The argument could be that debranding is not unlocking however its a slippy slope. 3 phones cannot lock on to 2G networks soley as standard as this is what 3 have requested the manufacturer to do. Thus by adjusting the phone to do so IMO you break the contract.

Maybe they will never find out, maybe they will who knows. My interpretation is that its certainly NOT allowed, as i stated above.
CitySlicker
09-01-2007
Your interpretation is certainly removed from the facts though.

Clause 9.1(g) refers directly to SIM unlocking, which is nothing to do with debranding.

5.4 is also about SIM unlocking, and I can understand what you're saying about using software that isn't approved being against their terms, but the exact phrase used is 'you myst not permit your handset to be unlocked via any unauthorised manner... because this involves securing access to the software which is not authorised by the Handset manufacturer'.

There's two points to this. Firstly debranding is still using the manufacturer's software, so technically you can argue that you're still using authorised software. That argument can potentially go either way with the user entering a different product code using NSS, but the key point is the term here is stating 'you must not permit your handset to be unlocked'. The use of the word 'because' means if 3 took legal action over someone debranding a phone, it wouldn't stand up as their logic past the word 'because' doesn't stand as a binding cause; and the term is still specifically referring to SIM unlocking.

Because you're referring to SIM locks, I still maintain there is absolutely nothing to stop a 3 customer debranding, and their T&C's reflect this.
Last edited by CitySlicker : 09-01-2007 at 18:55
Garyo2
09-01-2007
Originally Posted by CitySlicker:
“Your interpretation is certainly removed from the facts though.

Clause 9.1(g) refers directly to SIM unlocking, which is nothing to do with debranding.

5.4 is also about SIM unlocking, and I can understand what you're saying about using software that isn't approved being against their terms, but the exact phrase used is 'you myst not permit your handset to be unlocked via any unauthorised manner... because this involves securing access to the software which is not authorised by the Handset manufacturer'.

There's two points to this. Firstly debranding is still using the manufacturer's software, so technically you can argue that you're still using authorised software. That argument can potentially go either way with the user entering a different product code using NSS, but the key point is the term here is stating 'you must not permit your handset to be unlocked'. The use of the word 'because' means if 3 took legal action over someone debranding a phone, it wouldn't stand up as their logic past the word 'because' doesn't stand as a binding cause; and the term is still specifically referring to SIM unlocking.

Because you're referring to SIM locks, I still maintain there is absolutely nothing to stop a 3 customer debranding, and their T&C's reflect this.”

The case is you are altering manufacturers software to do something 3 do not allow as standard.

You do NOT have a right to do this under the license you have from your manufacturer. Thus the reason manufacturers do not offer the service.

Using non approved phones (ie if the phone software has been altered it is then not an approved device) this means you are breaking the contract because 3 stipulate your sim must be used in an non approved device.

The obvious reason why the phone has to be 'approved' is to stop work arounds that you are trying to get your phone to permit.

At the end of the day you could argue either way until the cows come home as this is just what lawyers do.

Have you had any clarification from 3 regarding whether they allow this or not? IF not you are potentially putting people at risk of breaking their contract if what you are saying turns out to be bogus?
Last edited by Garyo2 : 09-01-2007 at 19:14
Garyo2
09-01-2007
BTW - I seem to recall this topic has been discussed before on here. I remember one person having their PAYG service barred because they used soley 2G (as it was a 2G phone).
Garyo2
09-01-2007
As an aside does anyone work for three who can inform us as whether the EIR or the ABS systems do actually run checks on customers accounts to detect 'odd behaviour'
CitySlicker
09-01-2007
Why is it then, if I'm so wrong and you're so right, that the Carphone Warehouse offer a debranding service as an approved Nokia Service Centre? What if someone wasn't on 3; and you suggest I'm putting people at risk of breaking their contract - I don't believe we're in a nanny state, what I'm saying here isn't illegal, it's up to individuals to make up their own mind and I'm certainly not going to tell them what to do!

Can you provide a link to the thread for the person being barred?
Garyo2
09-01-2007
I am only referring to 3 (as per my orginal post and subsequent ones!)

I know 3 are very proactive in their attempts to reduce this type of 'abuse' (their words) happening. They have a right to protect their infrastructure because if everyone did what you are trying to do then the networkwould be down the pan within a matter of weeks.

The 2G network argreement is for backup measures and is there as a fail safe only and not to be used day in day out.

I have no connection, or affiliation with 3. I own non of their products nor will i ever own any.
Jac Naylor
09-01-2007
I can confirm that Three DO run checks on usage of mobile phones. I have a friend who bought one of those Motorola phones on Three for £29.99 but decided to use their SIM card in a Nokia 6230. They received a text from Three to ask them to please use the SIM card provided in a 3G phone.

I don't think they've been cut off, as they are still using the Three SIM in the 6230, and this text was early December.
Major Blink
11-01-2007
Originally Posted by sweep9:
“I searched on the web to do mine and found that the best and easiest debrander is the Genuine Nokia Update Software itself with the help of a program called NSS ("Nemesis Service Suite").

You also need to know the software number for your phone. Do a search for "product code N80"

Also when you do look on certain websites, they say you need a program called GSM MAGIC. You no longer need this program. NSS can do all the tasks you need itself.

Remember, taking Vodaphone software off their phones while it's under warranty will invalidate it!”

Well done sweep, you're a star. Debranded my Orange PAYG Nokia 6630 with the method you described. Now running the latest firmware (v6.03.08) with no problems at all. Got rid of that annoying Orange sidebar and the wallpapers are viewed properly, and the phone seems a bit quicker now. Props to ya man!!
Sean10
11-01-2007
Originally Posted by sweep9:
“I searched on the web to do mine and found that the best and easiest debrander is the Genuine Nokia Update Software itself with the help of a program called NSS ("Nemesis Service Suite").

You also need to know the software number for your phone. Do a search for "product code N80"

Also when you do look on certain websites, they say you need a program called GSM MAGIC. You no longer need this program. NSS can do all the tasks you need itself.

Remember, taking Vodaphone software off their phones while it's under warranty will invalidate it!”

Thanks for the advice and help. I will look into it more, though may wait until I upgrade.
CitySlicker
11-01-2007
Originally Posted by logik19:
“Well done sweep, you're a star. Debranded my Orange PAYG Nokia 6630 with the method you described. Now running the latest firmware (v6.03.08) with no problems at all. Got rid of that annoying Orange sidebar and the wallpapers are viewed properly, and the phone seems a bit quicker now. Props to ya man!! ”

It's well worth doing isn't it! These networks would like to think you've practically 'leased' the phone from them and they have the right to own it for life. This is giving proper functionality back to how it should be on mobiles.
Major Blink
12-01-2007
The phone is running a hell of a lot quicker, like a pc being formatted with a fresh install of XP/Other OS etc.

I re-installed FExplorer (latest version 1.16 Beta) and the C: Drive is now a respectable 8204Kb free from 9928Kb, which improves speed (think of your PC's Crive cluttered up after 6 months of installs/uninstalls), FreeMemory is up to over 6mb free, this increases the speed of programs loading such as TomTom (requires a lot of system free ram).

I only have 2 themes installed (apart from the default Nokia one) one of which is Windows Vista, which looks quite nice.

I recommend anyone with an S60 phone to debrand it, its a vast improvement and you won't look back!!
Major Blink
12-01-2007
I've also figured out how to change my font to the default one used on the new S60 3rd Edition phones such as the E61, N80 etc. This is ideal if your using an older phone such as the 6600, 6630, 6680, 7610 etc.

You need 2 programs: FExplorer and Font Remover (google them). You also need the font to install (the N80 default font I'm using is called niimaiNSerieNew.gdr).

1. First copy the font to the root of your memory card.

2. Install FEexplorer and Font Remover.

3. Run Font Remover and get it to find any fonts, when it asks you to reboot, don't! Exit the program.

4. Run FExplorer, goto the C drive of your phone and go into c:\system. In there create a folder called "Fonts". Then copy the niimaiNSerieNew.gdr file into the folder.

5. Once copied, select Options, Phone, then Restart. All being well the phone will restart with the new font running, giving your phone that N80 style, this looks really good with the Windows Vista theme. PM me if you want me to email you links for the theme and the font.

I have a 6630, and works perfectly on mine. Any questions, feel free to PM me.
Last edited by Major Blink : 12-01-2007 at 04:31
CitySlicker
12-01-2007
I'm so pleased this thread has been the inspiration to some to debrand your phone. It does make a difference and uncripples the network restrictions, my phone runs a lot faster and only has the things I want on the phone, not what my network wants.
sweep9
12-01-2007
Trying my best now to Debrand / Unlock a Sony Ericsson S700i thats sat around...

... for free BTW!
sweep9
24-01-2007
Originally Posted by sweep9:
“Trying my best now to Debrand / Unlock a Sony Ericsson S700i thats sat around...

... for free BTW!”

Done it!!

Only took me 12 days and a couple of quid off e-bay for a cable...
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