That new Russian judge is laughable. What happened to Kres? She always had something cosntructive to say.

Laughable....you're kidding right? OK her English may not be the best but she was T & D's closest competition back in the day, so I think she knows her stuff.

Yes silver medalists at the 1984 Olympics behind T & D - I thought she did admirably.

What is laughable is how ignorant Stephen Mulhearne is to treat natalia Bestemianova, an Ice Dance Legend is such an embarrassingly offhand way. He should be ashamed.

Defrosted lets the main show down very badly, and is a poor excuse for comedy and entertainment. Plus the presenter knows NOTHING about Skating!

I liked Krez very much, but having invited Natalia, they should make her feel more welcome than that.

Oh I really didn't know she was as good as that. I was only 18 months old when T&D won gold.

That's okay sparklebabe. I'm really pleased you started this thread.

It's not your fault at all, as the show is very bad at highlighting the skaters and Judge's achievements, often getting it wrong [describing Nicky Slater as a "Figure Skater" - No! He was an Ice Dancer!].

Just for the record, Natalia Bestemianova and her partner Andrei Bukhin won Olympic Gold in 1988 and several European and World Titles after T&D retired from competition.

They also led the Russian DOI over the Autumn/Winter.

I have to say that I never liked Natalia and her partner Alndrei Bukin's style of ice dancing (more like the pairs than ice dance to me), so I was pleased that they were always second in competition to T&D -
European championships in 1982 and 1984.
World championships in 82, 83, and 84, and the Olympics in 84.
Natalia and Andrei won the Europeans in 83 (think Jayne and Chris couldn't skate for some reason) and it was at that championship that Karen and Nicky (the judges) won a bronze medal.
After T&D turned professional in 84, Natalia and Andrei then went on to win European and World titles in 85, 86, 87, and 88, and the Olympic title in 88.
So basically if you diss Natalia you also diss Jayne and Chris.
I also suspect that she speaks better English than most viewers speak Russian.

EDIT: sorry, I'm a much slower typist than La Rhumba
Last edited by nelliek : 21-01-2007 at 00:29

Not at all nellie. ITA agree with you, I personally always preferred Klimova & Ponomarenko in the post T&D era [the 2nd Russians], as IMO Andrei was a very weak partner, and I found Natalia's style a bit OTT for my tastes.

That's right, Jayne's shoulder was injured at Europeans 83, as it was the season of Barnum, and she had a mishap practising a lift. But ofcourse it gave Nicky & Karen a chance to win their only medal.

Hasn't her hubby Stephen Pickavance aged in the VT? He was such a blonde cutie when skating in Singles, but he's gone bald. [Sorry for being shallow].

Nice to have so many skating fans on here!

Especially for you sparklebabe, here's a video of B&B [as we called them] skating in their heyday. Hope you like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEyfj...elated&search=

I was .................. ahem ................. a little more than 18 months old at the time ..................

Natalia and her partner were excellent and ran T&D very close a lot of times.


Not really as ice dancing and pairs skating are two different disciplines with different rules and when a pair ventures into moves only allowed in the other discipline, they are marked down.
Last edited by Forever Awkward : 21-01-2007 at 01:01

Er, sorry, but without wishing to turn this into an icedance debate about the past, no way were they ever "very close" to T&D. Not in the CDs [they weren't in the same league there] or the OSP or the Freedance...so how were they close? Not at all IMO.

I'm sure nellie knows the difference between Pairs and Dance. It's a style criticism she's making, as the No.2s K&P were always more Ballroomy.

Thanks for all the info guys!!!! I was roughly minus 18 months when T&D won gold

Okay, rub it in Cat!

As La Rhumba has pointed out, it's the style of B&B's skating that I didn't like. Count the number of lifts in the youtube link La Rhumba posted (for which many thanks). The lifts may not be as flamboyant as those in the pairs, but there were a lot of them - and it was supposed to be ice dance. And then remember the flak T&D got from their 'somersault' in 1994 when the rest of T&D's performance had been pure dance. (Still makes my blood boil, because T&D were well and truly robbed that year.)

Still doesn't take away from the fact that Natalia is/was one of the world's greatest ice dancers - right up there with T&Dand actually won more championships than they did!(yes I know I speak heresy!)

The odd one out in the line up (apart from Jason "I want to be Craig Revel Horwood" Gardiner) is acutally Robin Cousins - who never was an ice dancer.

I thought Natalia was actually quite good last night - she marked fairly and her comments were constructive

This si going to sound so silly, but has anyone got a picture of Kres? The name rings a bell, but I can't for the life of me remember what she looks like

I agree they were. But the reason for the judges being harsh on them was nothing to do with any element of their performance, that was just the "official" reason given, but because of resentment at them having turned professional and then returning to competition.

For what it's worth, though I always preferred Christopher to Alexander (they were both equally elegant but I think Chris had more finesse), I preferred Natalia to Jayne by miles. Partly because of her obvious enthusiasm but mainly because she was far more gainly on the ice.

There really was no-one to come even close to T&D in the ice dancing stakes, no-one told a story the way they did and I don't think anyone ever has since. Not that we get to see a lot of the ice dancing on telly anymore now that 'we' aren't winning!

I think that the russian judge was good (how embarrassing is that, I've forgotten her name) but I was really embarrassed by the way everyone screeched with laughter everytime she tried to say something about 'liking someone's arms' was the audience made up of school children?

Wow thanks for that. They were really good.

Yes they won even more Championships (of all varieties)than T&D did......

Hmmm? Of the Championships that matter, ie Euros, Olympics and Worlds, T&D won them all between 1981 and 1984 apart from 83 Euros when Jayne was injured and they didn't compete.

After T&D retired from Amateurs, B&B won them all from 1985 till 88, so apart fron one Euros, what's the difference in numbers?

As far as ice dance couples are concerned B&B aren't even considered the best Russians of all time. Andrei Bukhin was a very wooden partner, and far from "elegant" as someone described him earlier [he wouldn't even be ranked in the top 10 all time male Russian Dancers] and as a couple B&B were not on a level with T&D. Even the great Russian Coaches Moskvina and Tarasova think so.

We saw B&B skate in our local rink in about 1992. They were amazing.

On the same bill a couple of local skaters were also performing. At that point they were skating in figure skating competitions. It was several years later they became Ice Dance partners.

Sinead managed to get B&B's autographs for us.

Sinead and John are at present in Warsaw for the European Championships this week.

GOOD LUCK!!!!!

Why odd one out?

He's a superb former skater and choreographer, having been with Holiday on Ice for decades, both as a performer and Director, choreographing the current show on Tour in the UK. Plus he's skated with a partner before, very beautifully with Roslyn Summners in the 1987 production of Sleeping Beauty, so I would say he's very well qualified as a Judge myself.

BTW for people bemoaning the lack of skating coverage on TV nowadays, you need to get access to Eurosport - Europeans from Warsaw are starting tomorrow, and the Kerr's have a good chance of being placed top 5.

Thanks for that lovely story! I may quote your post on their MB if you don't mind.

You can all visit there to wish them GOOD LUCK!!!

http://absoluteskating.*********37.c...i?board=sinead

Their website: www.sineadandjohn.com