As a parent of two daughters who love their ballroom dancing i've been to these competitions so know how they work and have met other parents.

My two are not No 1 in the country, and they never will be, but they enjoy it. Initially, i was a little disconcerted by the make up that the children are obliged to wear but they see it as part of the dressing up and the fun. The reason for it, by the way, is because the ballroom are quite dark and facial expression IS part of the marking - the laydeeees have to smile throughout.

The competition is healthy. Prizes are awarded to all finalists - the top 6. Both of my daughters have learned that losing is part of competition, which is healthy. One of them was a terrible loser until this lesson, but she has also done well enough to practice diligently, improve and get a third for her Samba...she was thrilled. She doesn't do the rhumba btw, i've never seen juveniles (u11) or Juniors dance that.

There ARE pushy parents out there, but last night i think people are seeing disgraceful parents where they want to, rather than taking it as a tv programme with (crucially) editing. Talk of social services is, frankly, nonsense.

Do any of you really think any dad would go to the trouble and expense of converting his daughter's bedroom into a dance studio when she didn't get any joy from dancing? Of course she enjoys it, but she also happens to be good so what he thinks he is doing, surely, is creating the best opportunity for his talented little girl to thrive? Talk of social services is a nonsense.

I would imagine there are 2 points that cause people to think they are bad parents. The first being Ellie's chat in the kitchen with her parents where they tell her to try harder and the second the Brummie mum's 'crap' chat. I'm not about to defend these, but what parent among hasn't moved mountains for their kids only to have a shrug of the shoulders or a lack of effort? I have, and i know how frustrating it is.

Ellie was No1 in the country...her parents see a golden opportunity for a girl to escape the drudgery of the 9-5 in the future, and with something she enjoys to boot. They have made it possible for her to try - but because encouragement doesn't make good telly and is not shown people assume they are bad pushy parents.

By the way, at competition the compere encourages the crowd to shout out the number of their favourite. Dance schools support their friends, as do parents (although i need a few beers first!)

If your sole impression of the juvenile and junior dancing world is based on last night's show then you need to delve a bit deeper - although yes, the music is THAT cheesy. Girls and boys, although mainly girls, up and down the country love it though. Only one can win, but they all want to take part.

Many thanks for posting Bluehaggis, I think some perspective is needed here.

It isn't a good thing it seems to strive and to try and do well. I had a beef with a couple of the parents manners but it's nothing to do with the fact that they obviously want their kid to do something better than checkout in Tesco.

And good for them.

Definitely all for proper dancing lessons being accessible at school - with lovely dance studios for the local dance teachers to use

I'm sure that programme would have been very different if we'd seen the children with their dance teachers, rather than their parents! Watching Ian and Vincent, smiling and being so supportive and lovely when dancing with little Ellie and Tabby on Richard and Judy, was a masterclass in how dance training SHOULD be

Who are the pros that get the best from their celebs on SCD? The kind, patient and supportive ones - but still with a steely focus and ambition to do as well as possible. Ooops, am becoming very much the armchair know it all !

PS: Its a dangerous lesson to make children think that unless they are succeeding in something amazing, then life isn't worth living. How many of us are actually excelling at anything particularly impressive (apart from life in general!)? Not many of us, but we still have fulfilling and decent lives. Even those on Tesco checkouts! Money, fame and glory are not the real meaning in life - but that's a whole other debate!
Last edited by SlinkyMalinky : 07-02-2007 at 14:58

Dance is compulsory on the curriculum at my son's comprehensive (until the age of 14, anyway) - it's part of the PE and drama curriculum, and they all love it. Because all the boys have to do it there's no mickey taking, as there probably would be if it was an optional club.

My problem is not with young girls dancing; it's the way that some parents either live their lives vicariously through their kids - or see their kids talents as a meal ticket. I do, however, have a problem with the over the top make up (this would equally apply if they were disco dancing)

I taught gymnastics for years, and the further you go up the competitive ladder the fewer smiles you used to see on the kids faces. When you consider how many hours you need to put into training for any sports, I think it's a shame if the enjoyment has gone and the kids are just doing it to please their parents.

Thanks for posting BlueHaggis. I was cringing through most of that documentary last night, but as you said it was a tv programme with editing.
Interesting to hear a little more about it and a different viewpoint.
Last edited by Stella Street : 07-02-2007 at 15:01

Thanks for your post Blue Haggis,

I've no doubt that 90% of the parents taking their children to these competitions do it for all the right reasons you list in your post.

I hate the idea of a father turning a bedroom into a dance studio (I missed that bit in the programme) - by doing this does it not make the child feel they have to do dance as a career as their parents pay and sacrafice so much, no child should feel at 10 they are dancing as a career!

Imagine the guilt that whilst they loved dancing at 10 they hate it at 14 and no longer desire to see a dance shoe again can they really be honest about it?

LOL.

Hasn't it been tried in New York? Should be here.

We saw very little footage of the dance classes, pity. By the way, apart from a couple of things, though it's only 5 minutes footage out of a year have no strong view either way on the parents. It's not as if they're forcing the kids to do it. I don't think we're talking sending up chimneys time.

[quote=SlinkyMalinky

PS: Its a dangerous lesson to make children think that unless they are succeeding in something amazing, then life isn't worth living. How many of us are actually excelling at anything particularly impressive (apart from life in general!)? Not many of us, but we still have fulfilling and decent lives. Even those on Tesco checkouts! Money, fame and glory are not the real meaning in life - but that's a whole other debate![/QUOTE]

Please don't misunderstand me, as I'm allergic to the whole meaningless materialistic celeb thing.

I mean to say, that if a child does have a real talent at something than it should be encouraged as far as possible. Nothing wrong with that.

I watched this last night, and it made interesting viewing. I missed the forst 20mins, so had to pick it up quickly, form what I could gather 'Tabby' had only been doing it for 2 months? Also I didn't get to see how much they were practising a week.

Since becoming consumed in SCD, I have wanted to be part of the dancing scene, particulalry ballroom. I have thought I may be too old to be any good competitively now at 16 (apologies to any who feel offended by that, but I would imagine most competitors my age would have been dancing since a young age). I don't know what it is that makes me want to do it, I'm not a naturally showing person, or particularly camp.

Some of the scenes with the parents kinda put me off a little. Most were very middle class, and I just think back to the cricket days and how I despised those sort of attitudes.

I would want to be good you see, and make it my goal to at least compete, not neccessairily win, but just to be able to compete in the UK Nationals, or the Midlands championships (if there is such a thing?).

I know this isn't about SBB, more about me (sorry! ) but if anyone has any advice at all and can be bothered to PM me (instead of dragging this thread OT) I would be eternally grateful.

Dave

I'm so glad to find this thread and I agree with most of the comments about the parents. They are horrible! That really change my mind about the kids' dancing competition and the so called junior champion. I can't believe that the kids have to compete EVERY WEEK in order to stay in rank, I don't think it's purely the parents to be blamed, the whole industry is sick! To put the kids in such a stressful situation throughout their whole childhood is absolutely disgraceful.

I used to think that the kids go to dancing class every week, practise often and compete like half a year or once a year. I also thought that apart from dancing, they have other things like any other kids, dance is just a bonus. It is really horrifying to see the reality. Although only three parents have been shown in the programme, but from what we have seen in the competition it's not hard to imagine what other parents are like and what the other kids are suffering. It is absolutely terrible thing to watch and yet I'm glad to see what it's like.

I agree. The brother/sister partnership's mum is awful. How can she said other kid dancers are c**p' and that she rather go on holiday every 6 week after her son and daughter were knocked out of the competition? What sort of attitude she's instilling to her children? Not even a single word of encouragement. Also kept mentioning the money, dress, nail and all sort but never really mention about her kids' like dancing or not. I don't think she's doing it for them, but for her own satisfaction only, in a way it filled all her hobbies - shopping, making up her daughter like a doll , spending, winning and probably undermining others kids.

As I said before ,I took my daughter to Latin /disco classes for about 4 years and she did very well , working her way up through the grades in the exams .
She didn't go to any but her own dance centre's ( New Cottage Ystard Mynach) competitions .
Eventually, she gave up at about 12 as she could not continue lessons and do well at school . Others went to midweek classes and got into the formation team( New Cottage is nationally known ) .her " friends" many of whom were in junior school with her , made it very clear she was too fat and too unattractive to get anywhere .Their mothers ,whom I knew well , told me much the same .NOT the teachers at all , they were great , their teenage "teachers " however ,were to a girl unpleasant and rude to anyone they did not like !! Her dad went to one grade exam with her and was furious at what he saw and heard from one of these girlswho had to dance with Hannah for her exam .
I was never involved with the competition scene , but I saw enough from some parents just at classes and exams . It isn't every parent atall ,many give up time and spend a lot ofmoney encouraging their children .Hannah's best friend's brother is a champion dancer at 13 .He loves it and his mum is not at all pushy .
Hannah is now at Bristol uni ,has taken up dancing again and is going toher first compeition in Sheffield on Saturday . She is no longer too fat and ugly !

I have to say that I agree with Mel ,many parents whom I knew were living their lives vicariously through their children and it is those who are to be condemned not those who just want to support and encourage .
Last edited by arddunol : 07-02-2007 at 19:32

Karen and Lilia might have been dancing from a similar age but in the pics we saw of them and from the way they talked about their childhoods and dancing, it came across that it was something that they loved to do... and that their parents supported them as much as possible as a result of that. It didn't sound like they were doing it because their parents made them... which seemed to be the case in at least a couple of cases last night.

In the majority of cases when it comes to the best in the world, they might have been taken along to their first lessons in whatever sport by their parents, or fallen into it along with school friends or whatever... but from a fairly early age, it's usually their own drive that takes over at some stage and pushes them forwards. Not that of their parents.

Karen for example started dance classes because her Mum wanted some peace to go and do the shopping at weekends. It didn't sound at all like her Mum became fixated on her winning as some of the parents on SBB seemed to be, but rather would take Karen to the various competitions around the country because it was something she loved doing. From the way Karen still seems to love dance, it doesn't take much imagination to guess she probably loved it from an early age.

Yep, I noticed that when I was watching the American Ballroom Challenge (?) on raphael's site. Thought it was an American thing or maybe just for the t.v. cameras. As an outsider, I think its very, very odd.

In my quote about "social services" being called in, I never made any comment about whether or not that was a good or a bad thing. I never said that where social services are involved/called in was justified. The point I was making, the level of concerns, and the array of concerns that an hour long programme like that could and did engender, would in some quarter, set alarm bells ringing.

My point being, when it comes to certain activitities, and the potential levels of money involved, different processes and rules seem to come into play. If you are in a certain income bracket, and are deemed to be in a particular social class, there would be another word/s used instead of "pushy".

I love the world of dancing, and I accept that the 3 parents on display last night (because it was more about them than children dancing) were extreme examples, in order to make good tv. I somehow doubt, that any of the children shown last night, will be dancing in 10 years time, or if they do, it will be on their own terms.

I do not regard any of my posts as nonsence, and I respect all points of view displayed on here.

The programme was just one aspect of the dancing world. It probably did not encourage people to take up dancing, and I suspect, it would not deter anyone either. My underlying belief on the paretns shown last night is that even when they watch a playback of the show, I doubt that they will see anything wrong in how they may have come across, and if they do, the editing will be blamed.

I honestly hope they do. I hope it's just C4 usual trick to make a debatable programme. I believe most of the parents are encouraging and supportive and want the best for their kids.

But one thing I can't understand is, why do the kids needs to compete EVERY WEEK to stay in the rank? If this is the truth, then why? It doesn't make sense.

I don't know why this is, but I think Karen Hardy said when she was a child she had to compete every weekend in different parts of the country. Sounds like its been like that for a while. (Hope I'm not making that up.)

Sorry I don't know how to PM.

I'm sure I heard somewhere that Anton du Beke started to learn ballroom when he was 14, so you may not be too late Pingman. I'm no expert, but probably a dance school could give you advice on whether you would be able to compete.

It certainly has. When you register with the regulatory body, you get ranked depending on your performance at certain competitions. A comp in a church hall somewhere just for the fun of it is not going to be important, but a championship comp carries rankings depending on your place in the final.

To keep your 'scores' up, regular competition is essential. Of course, a lot of young couples have no aspirations to rise to the top and so this is less important. For others, it is vital.

I agree. Particularly the girl who when intervierwed on her own, mentioned that her parents go quiet when she talks about giving up and how much money they have spent.

There is nothing sadder than a girl who dances for the sake of her parents. I have seen it myself many times over and it's not healthy for anyone concerned.

My own parents were wonderful. They never pushed despite early indications of my ability. They never made me feel pressurised and always told me that it should be fun and that the moment it stopped being fun, I should call it a day.

I competed very much on my own terms and the experience was all the better for it.

You have it spot on. Todays professionals are where they are because they are passionate about dance and long to do it. If you dance to please someone else, there is no way you can stay the course.

Do you dance professionally Thess?

That's the impression I got from today's professional. Of course I'm not familiar with it, but from what they said and show it seems they love dancing and it's them that's waht drove their parents to support them, not the other way around. I also think that to be a top dancers the emotional must be from inside and not to be put on by their parents.

I wonder how many of those top junior champion stay as a professional dancer when they grown up? Maybe some of the future top professionals simply focus more on improving their dancing rather than focusing on competing in order to please their parents.

Spot on, Thess. It's the same in all sports. How many get caught up in it in my sport - the dreaded Pony Club mum or parent with loads of money and able to buy a wonderful dressage horse that is totally unsuitable (potentially dangerous ) for their son/daughter.

(By the way, I was a Pony Club mum, for a time. They can be very supportive and without them PC events just wouldn't take place) it's all a matter of balance.

Not any more! My story is very similar to Karens, except that it was I who split the partnership. Her comments on how she coped post-split really resonate with me.

After the split I danced with someone else for a while and then gave up competition altogether. I taught for a while but had to give up after my son was born. Arthritis you see. God clearly has a sick sense of humour!