I dont think you are a troll actually. I think you genuinly believe what you are saying. All we can do is tell you that your interpretation is wrong as far as me and a lot of other posters here are concerned. Il agree he is a great singer, probabaly the best of them all. But, and Im sounding like a broken record now, I and a lot of others arent looking at this as a pure singing contest, its about entertainment. Ruby entertains me more than ANY of the others!.
Can you accept that MOST of us who support Ruby are doing it for reasons that have nothing at all to do with Racism?.

I do understand where you are coming from, I sometimes get really annoyed at the way women are treated in this world for eg, and the insulting comments some people make about them, but I always direct my views to the person concerned, rather than just accuse everyone of the same thing.

if you wernt then I apologise, but reading your initial post really did seem like you were calling all of us racists, when, in fact, your post seemed to be triggered by another post from ONE user.
which was quite Ironic, because that particular poster was really annoyed when Chris Ewbank got voted out of CBB1.
go figure.

Excellent post LondonGirl, but yikes I've just discovered that I'm a lurker! LOL I have been reading this thread and been increasing incensed by Zazza's annoying assumptions. I think someone continually trying to make a racist point when there wasn't any hint of racism in the first place actually can do more harm than good in the fight against racism. Yes there ARE morons in this world who ARE racist though I have seen no evidence than that on these forums but there are also people who will read Zazza's post and make their own assumptions that he/she is a yet another black person with a massive chip on his her/shoulder and so the seed of racism is sown. This is NOT how I think, this is what I have seen happen.

Kwame may well have been the best singer but he wasn't kept in (or rather he was thrown out as you put it) because he didn't have the comic entertainment value which was what it was all about.

If it was about comic entertainment value why didn't they have them all do stand up?

Derrr!!! It was because it was Comic relief 'does Fame Academy' not Fame Academy does the Stand Up Show. I can't understand why you have so much difficulty in understanding that, despite you being told over and over time and time again by everyone on this forum!!!!

Ok let's put it this way. Tonight on Comic Relief, French and Saunders are going to 'do Harry Potter'. I don't think they are expecting to get any Oscars out of it!

Sadly for your glib theorising I am not a troll. I actually do believe there ia lot of unconscious and not sdo unconscious racism going on in this country..

I am certainly not accusing everyone here of being a racist however, merely bemoaning the fact that, as can be seen by reading back on some of the hateful Lemar posts, ( 'He is an animal', 'he is a disgusting' etc ) you will see a very obvious pattern.. pick up on the slightest thing and use it to crucify...

Whenever this is pointed out.. and I admit I am doing this in a fairly confrontational way, the person who points it out is ALWAYS accused of being a racist themselves...

By putting up the posts 'I loathe Ruby' and 'Will intellectually challenged or what'? I was interested to see how the tone of the reaction varied from that to 'I HATE Kwame, I have had enough'

Interestingly the tone was very different...

That always happens on those sort of shows. you will always get post that say 'I hate so and so'. For most people its nothing to do with race. I mean, look at the posts in the BB forum here, youll get similar posts about Jonny, Kate, Alex etc etc....its the way people react when they get closly involved in a program. they will pick up on the slightest percieved 'character flaw' and exagerate it beyong all proportions. its the nature of the beast, and, isnt reserved for skin colour.
personally I do find it rather OTT when people use the word 'hate', but thats just me, as any here will testify . and I will sometimes point it out, but always directly to the person involved. however, most of the time, i understand that they dont really hate the person, just the 'image' they see on tv. because, we dont really know what any of them are like untill we meet them face to face for ourselves.

Exactly...and 'fame' encompasses many things, not just singing. Kwame wasn't the best in there when it comes to 'fame' IN MY OPINION.

zazza, I think you definitely have a point about unconscious racism and I think there was an element of that in the criticism of Lemar, although not nearly as much as there has been of contestants on shows like BB (expecially the women).

But the danger is that if you are aware of this you start to see it where it doesn't exist. The criticisms that have been made of Kwame have also been made of Will, that they are both taking the show far too seriously and have selfish career motives. Kwame is obviously a more intelligent man than Will so therefore he seems more devious. The people that are glad that Kwame is out would probably be equally glad if it had been Will, as by the end they were seen as a double act.

Lets face it, the people taking part in this show already have successful careers and most people watching don't want to see them trying to kickstart alternative careers. The motive for supporting Ruby is not racism, but the desire to see fun win out over ambition.

Also by comparing Kwame to Lemar you are doing both of them a disservice. Lemar is in a different league to Kwame who is very average imo.

A very sensible post Plant.

I think that if Zazza had started a post pointing out that he thought that Kwame's expulsion was a symptom of a widespread unconcious racism which is evident in all reality shows, we could have had an interesting conversation.

However by jumping on one posters hatred of one black contestant claiming that it was clearly racially motivated Zazza has trivalised and clouded a very serious issue which is a shame.

Are those exact quotes, or just ones you made up? If they're exact quotes, can you find them so we can see the context? If you just made them up, can you accept that your argument has just lost any credibility it might have had?

After you've presented your evidence of racism against Lemar on these boards (and presumably forwarded that evidence on to the moderators), please do the same for Kwame.

Or are you just accusing people of racism with no evidence whatsoever?

Just thought I'd point out that, if zazza's previous posts during FA are correct, then Zazzaa is white. And now,zazzaa, please answer Mr P's point. I read every post during FA and I can recall no posts that were that derogatory to Lemar in the way you suggest. Dont make such accusations if you cant back them up

Of course it is all about being entertained but can't you be entertained by great singing?

People keep having a go at Kwame for taking it too seriously, when I think people would have more reason to be angry at him for taking the whole thing as a joke and not trying at all. Kwame has had a laugh in the academy but he's taken the singing part seriously - that's what I think they all did.

Errr , When?? Must have missed that!

Kwame has a real vocal talent, however I hope he doesn't turn around and make a record. I would much rather see him and Will Mellor take to the stage.

As for Zazza, He is indicative of the type of person who wants to see racism in everything that happens, and by doing that, he creates more obstacles for people to climb. He makes more of an issue than something, than actually exists.

Its a shame that some people, whether they are white, black, jew, hindu, sikh, christian, buddist, muslim, male, female or whatever they are in a minority of people like them, seem to constantly look for racist, sexist and anti-semetic reasoning to things. The only thing that is achieved are more barriers.

I don't know whether Zazza has an identity problem, or by looking for and finding indentity problems, he is in fact racist himself.

He seems to think that everyone should be apologetic because Kwame is black, and got voted off. He came third. Now, to come third is still in itself a great achievement, its just a shame Zazza cannot see that. He also doesn't notice that he came third out of nine people. Paul Ross, Ferne, Doon, Jo Brand, John Thompson and Ulrika were voted out before Kwame. If racism were the issue, Kwame would have been voted off long before he came to be third place.

I feel real pity for you Zazza. Looking for problems, will only cause problems. You've trivialised the idea that subconciously people might not vote for Kwame because he is black, something which could have proven an intelligent discussion.

Doesn't it occur to you Zazza, that people simply found Kwame, to be slightly sychopantic, as apposed to black and sychopantic?

(I've said him/he, but you maybe female, in which case I apologise)

I know I'm probably adding fuel to the fire but this is where zazza is coming from
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/...+is#post544182

Here's a couple, there are lots more but I'm not going to waste my time ...

Quote:

Watching Lemars behaviour on choice, constant silly banter and interruptions during Oily Parkes speeches, more stupid comments, then following Malachi uninvited into the Choice studio to put off Malachi's performance,

was simply pathetic and disgusting

. Drunk or just an ars*hole? He has so gone down in my estimation.

For a man whose dialogue is mostly eeeks and aahhhs

he certainly had too much to say for himself at the reunion party - like I really wanna be THE centre of attention here... I am THE Lemar! YUCK! POO!

gets my vote to leave FA ASAP!

End Quote:

Quote:

No way does Lemar "sing" at all, whether in tune or out of tune.


He sounds like an animal in pain.

He has no personality worth speaking of as far as entertainment goes,

he behaves very badly,

is impolite and shouts over people,

seems jealous of people.

I don't watch him if I can help it, I turn over...

All my opinion to which I am entitled. Ainslie and Malachi on the other hand had boundless personality, entertainment value, and could sing, in my opinion.....

End Quote:

And we get the same sort of diatribes against Kwame..

Wake up.. I'm not saying that everyone is racist.. just trying to alert people to the subtle predjudice that exists.. used to be blatant, now it's disguised.. people pick on something and use it as an excuse for character assasination....

Every study that has ever been done on schools, the police, institutions of all sorts has said the same thing... there is subtle and pernicious racism in all parts of our society....

I know I get accused of being racist and that people don't like to confront this sort of stuff 'there's no racism in our society any more', but there is, believe me. Nowadays however, it is mostly hidden.. Somehow the black guy doesn't get the job interview, or the job.. I'm just pointing it out in the hope that people will perhaps reflect on it...

To give an example, a Nigerian friend of mine (who has a degree in Molecular Biology) tried for two year to get a job. He didn't get a single interview. Then he changed his name on his CV to an 'english' name. In 1 week he got 5 interviews. Of course, none of the people concerned would ever admit that they were racist.. and they'd probably call me one!

Peace

An apology would be nice Mr 'Oh so pompous' Partridge.

well, approx half the voting public agree with you (The vote between Ruby and Will is approx 50/50 (only 7% in it, dont know which way). )
So, yes, you can be entertained by great singing, but also by humour and personality(as the other 50% do). I choose to vote the personality way
Yes... I love music, and I love good singing voices. I also love it when someone makes me laugh and entertains me that way. I can honestly say that the person who has entertained me the most all week is Ruby. Maybe its cos I have interactive and see her in the academy a lot. Her wit is just so quick and sharp. Has me in stiches.

Dont think so.
I see nothing in that post that has any hint of racism in it. exactly the same sort of things were said about many of the contestants in all the BB shows for eg, regardless of race.

You are right about one thing. There is more of racism in this country than thier should be, but the way round it isnt to jump on people discussing a TV show.
Oh what the heck...Listen to Ms Dynamites songs. she says it much better than I can.

[quote]Originally posted by zazza

. Drunk or just an ars*hole? He has so gone down in my estimation.

For a man whose dialogue is mostly eeeks and aahhhs

he certainly had too much to say for himself at the reunion party - like I really wanna be THE centre of attention here... I am THE Lemar! YUCK! POO!
gets my vote to leave FA ASAP!
No way does Lemar "sing" at all, whether in tune or out of tune.
He sounds like an animal in pain.
He has no personality worth speaking of as far as entertainment goes,
he behaves very badly,
is impolite and shouts over people,
seems jealous of people.
I don't watch him if I can help it, I turn over...
All my opinion to which I am entitled. Ainslie and Malachi on the other hand had boundless personality, entertainment value, and could sing, in my opinion.....
End Quote:
Good god Zazza- I could and did say all that about Nige. He was far worse than those quotes! In fact my dislike of Nige knows no bounds-especially when he got drunk!

Totally agree metafis. Zazza, like I said when this was raised ( by you) during FA, there's a time and a place. Start a thread on the General Discussion forum and we can debate it sensibly.

Eww.. what planet do you live on?


Yeah, cos it doesn't really happen does it Peej?

If only those pesky minorities would stop complaining, racism would go away eh?

Silly ole us!

You feel pity for me.. Aww shucks.. hope it makes you feel good, cos you really a moron...

My sister is the only white member of staff in her office. Her boss and colleages(5 of them)are black and all voted Ruby. They all agreed Kwame had a good voice, but found Ruby more entertaining, and in the spirit of Comic Relief, want her to win.

Race really is not an issue in the context of Comic Relief FA..

[quote]Originally posted by tally

Quote:
“Originally posted by zazza

. Drunk or just an ars*hole? He has so gone down in my estimation.

For a man whose dialogue is mostly eeeks and aahhhs

he certainly had too much to say for himself at the reunion party - like I really wanna be THE centre of attention here... I am THE Lemar! YUCK! POO!
gets my vote to leave FA ASAP!
No way does Lemar "sing" at all, whether in tune or out of tune.
He sounds like an animal in pain.
He has no personality worth speaking of as far as entertainment goes,
he behaves very badly,
is impolite and shouts over people,
seems jealous of people.
I don't watch him if I can help it, I turn over...
All my opinion to which I am entitled. Ainslie and Malachi on the other hand had boundless personality, entertainment value, and could sing, in my opinion.....
End Quote:
Good god Zazza- I could and did say all that about Nige. He was far worse than those quotes! In fact my dislike of Nige knows no bounds-especially when he got drunk!”

I said all those things about David and no-one said a thing.....Oh hang on, yes they did, at length, over several Mesostim beating posts.

For what, exactly? Where's your evidence of racism against Lemar or Kwame? I absolutely agree with you that racism is rampant in the UK (and elsewhere, of course), and that it can be quite subtle. And of course there will be some people who don't like Lemar or Kwame because of their colour - there are some racists in our society. Some of them may even frequent or post on this board. But, apart from the general point that racism exists and that it can be disguised - which I think most people here readily accept - you seem to be convinced that racism has seen Lemar and Kwame "thrown off" these shows. If so, you're going to have to show some evidence of that, or you're just accusing people with no grounds. I could accuse you of all manner of things, too, and when questioned on my proof say "Well, it's just quite well disguised."

I don't see how picking out any comment that is rude about Lemar or Kwame and saying it's racially motivated is responsible, fair or constructive.

Sorry if that's pompous of me, zazza.