Exactly the point I wanted to make. All these criticisms of Lemar are no worse than the comments that David has recieved, rightly or wrongly, on the FA forum. And whilst those of us who like David have had our disagreements with the people who've said those comments, at no time have we accused them of having some kind of prejudice against Scots, or in my case and i presume many others, even considered that they may have.

Zazza, you're argument has more flaws than I'd care to point out, especially as others have done so far more articulately than I could. It's a shame you can't see that.

Zazza, you'll be telling us that Carrie's a racist next!

I just enjoy the expression on her face when the best singers get voted out time after time...

Remember the 'Poor Katie' saga. she looked fit to explode..

And when David was criticised nearly everyone defended him. When Lemar was crticised, nearly everyone joined in.

Same with Kwame and Will.

i didnt like Kwame or Will.

What the hell am i?

opininated?

Sorry but that's, to be polite, nonsense. David's recieved a hell of a lot more criticism than Lemar ever has, and whilst there were/are a small group of people (myself included) who defended David, to say nearly everyone did is patently untrue, just go read some of the threads.

Sure, Lemar got some criticism, and like David, some of it was justified, some not. To say nearly everyone joined in is again totally untrue. Simple fact is people didn't care as much about Lemar (both positively and negatively) as they did David, Sinéad, Ainslie or Malachi, simply because of the way he came across to FA viewers. Therefore the criticism was less fierce, and the defence equallt apathetic.

I personally quite liked him but didn't have the live feed so my judgements were based purely on the showdowns and the BBC1 highlight shows, which IMO were, like a lot of the competition, slightly biased in Lemar's favour.

And one last point, surely your last sentence completely ruins your whole argument? "Same with Kwame and Will". How can it be racially motivated if two people of such different race are being treated the same?

DON'T YOU DARE CALL ME RACIST
HOW DARE YOU, YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ME.

The problem exists when someone WANTS to be put on. Obviously your seeing us lot being racist, where their is no racial problem. The only racist here Zazza, is YOU. You wanted Kwame to win because he was black. That is racist. We here wanted the best one to win. It was nothing about Kwame's colour. People just found him a bit pompus.

Your just looking for problems where they don't exist. People simply didn't like Kwame... Colour or no colour, I found him to be an excellent singer, but a rather pompous git, who spouted too much sycophantic bullshit.

But at least he said it thinking about people and the feelings they have... You just want race divides where they're aren't any. Stop looking for trouble. I find you calling me a moron heavily ironic to be honest, and totally funny. Your nothing more than a flamer, so I will be reporting you to the Mods.

I think your obsession with this is making you see what you want to see.


I saw similar things written about Nigel the night he got drunk. And David has had far worse things said about him.


You've come on here accusing people of racism, with no real evidence. You wanted Kwame to win because he's black - you're the one voting for (and therefore - against) a colour. Most people here voted on personality, and Ruby was simply more likeable than the pretentious Kwame for the majority of us.



You don't think maybe it's because Ruby and Will were just more likeable people than Kwame?

The same one as everyone around here apart from you Zazza.

I hate people who want division, and find problems between people with different characteristics. Your like the woman who goes round telling people how all men hate women.

I think all Sneddon haters would have been happier to have seen Lemar win.. and Lemar has a much better voice than Kwame - he is so overrated, and I too thought he let it all go to his head

And I think Will deserved to win anyway!

Where did I accuse you of being a racist?

The reason I supported Kwame was because he was the best singer by a country mile... which should be obvious to anyone who isn't tone deaf..

I am glad you are amused.. now if it wasn't for those pesky whining minorities I guess your life would perfect..

Since I have specfically pointed out that I am not accusing everyone here of being a racist, I find that comment a trifle illogical.

So you hate me eh? I want division? It is all my fault?

Gee, you argue like 6 year old.

Lemar/David

Kwame/Will

gettit?

So, anyone reading this thread who isn't racist, will probably remain that way, although a little worried that they may end up saying something that could end up being seen as racist by certain people. And the people who are genuinely racist are probably angrier than ever.

Tremendous.

What?

You are worried about upsetting the racists? making them angry?

I don't quite know what to make of that statement...

Care to clarify?

Yeah, I see the point your making. It's still nonsense, as your whole argument has been.

Lemar/David = David has had far more criticism, and therefore more people defending him from this. Lemar's had comparatively mild criticism, and few defended him simply because he didn't inspire the same level of devotion from the public during his time in the Academy. I think few people actually hated Lemar, they just simply saw little about him that made them a fan of his. Face facts - David was more popular than Lemar with the public, by millions of votes. Are all those people racist?

Kwame/Will = Totally different. For a start, sure, Kwame was the best singer, but don't kid yourself he was even fit to lace Lemar's boots. Secondly, this was Comic Relief Fame Academy, so talent was in no way the only factor. Thirdly, Kwame came across as pretentious and taking the whole thing too seriously. Why shouldn't he be voted out? You think people should have kept Kwame in just because of his colour? Is that not treating someone differently because of their race, the very definition of racism? Its such a simple thing you're failing to realise - people liked Will more than they liked Kwame, not because he was white but because he was they preferred his personality. You're seeing racism where, from the vast majority of the voting public, there is none. And in doing that, you're harming the very cause you're fighting for.

Nick I agree with everything you've said.




Isn't it time this thread came to an end. Everyone's going round in circles now?

The point is, this thread has done nothing but make people feel a little uneasy about what they can and can't say... I'm fed up with having to feel that way because of people like you, looking for racism whenever anyone says something negative about someone who just happens to be black.

I would never even think of voting for the BNP party, but I wonder how many people who have had this same fed up feeling as me, have gone and done that...

You can't honestly think that anything you've written in this thread has helped your fight against racism.

sigh.. at least try to address the points that I was making not straw men that u can then knock down..

1) don't kid yourself he was even fit to lace Lemar's boots

A: I wasn't comparing lemar to kwame in terms of vocal talent..

2) You think people should have kept Kwame in just because of his colour?

A: No, because he is the best singer (for the millionth time)

3) Lemar's had comparatively mild criticism

A: In your opinion, certainly not in mine...

4) Are all those people racist?

A: No, not all of them.. but enough to make a difference..

5) Kwame came across as pretentious and taking the whole thing too seriously. Why shouldn't he be voted out?

A: Will came across as self-indulgent idot.. why shouldn't he be voted out? What's your point?

6) You're seeing racism where, from the vast majority of the voting public, there is none.

a: How do you know that, have you ever experienced racism?

7) And in doing that, you're harming the very cause you're fighting

A: In your opinion. I am not a subscriber to the 'shut up and the problem will go away' theory.

This is twice in a matter of days now. Where's David when you need him, this can't go on

Isn't it time this thread came to an end. Everyone's going round in circles now?

Definitely. If Zazza wants to keep it going, up to them, but personally I don't think the argument has anywhere left to go, if Zazza doesn't get what we're saying now, she never will.

Let me ask you guys a couple of questions and see if you can answer ithem.

Q: How many black male university lectures are there in this country?

Q: Why?

I understand perfectly what you are saying Big Nick.. unfortunately, it's unsound, confused and incorrect..

No idea, I'm sure this question and it's answer has a point but how is it relevant to a discussion on Celebrity Fame Academy? If you want to carry this on and have a serious discussion about racism in our society or whatever, try the General Discussion forum, I'm sure it'll make an interesting thread on there. You've still failed to come up with any evidence of racism by any forum members with regards to Kwame being criticised or voted out, which is what you have alleged.

I understand perfectly what you are saying Big Nick.. unfortunately, it's unsound, confused and incorrect..

Until you come up with the evidence of the racism you allege some FM's are guilty of, then that's purely you're opinion, and one that I don't think I'd be wrong to say is at odds with that of the vast majority of FM's. Back up your argument and I'll admit I've been wrong. I think we know that's not going to happen though, is it?

having just read this thread from start to finsh i can't help but feel saddened. Clearly Zazza has some issues regarding CelebFA but going on the offensive only results in offending other people, regardless of wether you are right or wrong. There are clearly a lot of irate and angered people in this thread.

I don't personally feel there has been any element of racisim involved in the voting of contestents. I believe that people took the show for what it was and voted to keep those people who entertained them in the academy. Yes Kwarme took it seriously, yes he probably was the most talented singer there but did he give the most entertaining performance of all the contestents? i feel not. Hence why Ruby progressed becuase people were entertained by her.

What has that got to do with anything? What is the percentage of blacks of this country's population. University lecturers aren't well paid anyway, so i wouldn't expect them to be there. However, i know i lot of black lawyers (for some reason, not sure why).