I don't think it can be that simple. Most here don't seem to buy the praise for Ray. Votes are often contrary to the judges' praise or ciriticism. Often the judges disagree with each other, or David / Carrie disagree with them. I had negative thoughts about Shaun and Tricia as soon as I heard them sing. And so on.

At the end of the day, people should be pleased that his votes are raising more and more money for Comice Relief. It's just a bit of fun all round. Shaun and Tricia are taking it far too seriously and people that want to moan about his popularity are doing exactly the same. As much as I support Tara, Angellica and Ray (yes, I'm a fan ), it's not the be all and end all if they're voted off...

I find all this Ray Stubbs conspiracy stuff hilarious

Do you think the producers have a five album deal set up for him when they fix it for him to win this? LOL.

Also, the accusers are invariably fans of those pitch perfect divas: Tara(I'm so vulnerable) and Angelica(I'm on a journey)

No you're quite right, it's not that simple. I mean the actual voting is all over the shop isn't it?
When I was speaking of 'the public' I was generalising really, in that they're likely to affect a lot of people although not everybody.
It's just that 'lot of people' tend to be polarised and which often outnumbers the scattered vote.

And I'd add that I think that the show has misjudged things a bit here. They're not infallible even if they can influence a lot of people.

The voting is all over the place though, no consistency. So it looks to me as though a fair proportion of people are resisting what the show appears to be trying to portray to some extent.

With these sorts of shows I always tend to get the sense of a bit of an 'Emperor's Clothes' atmosphere at the event, where most people in the studio appear to share the same beliefs.
For example, last night I watched a bit of BBC3 and that Dom guy was reading e-mails from a screen. He read one out which was supportive of Tara and then turned around to ask the studio audience if they liked Tara, to which they cheered. He knew full well that everybody there loved Tara and it just came across to me that he was seeking affirmation for the benefit of the cameras.

It also seems to be the same when guests come on to give their opinions. More often than not they appear to gauge the mood of the studio audience and just appear to be giving views that are popular with them.

So this weird rollercoaster of opinion appears to be evident there in the studios where everybody is somehow conforming to a majority opinion. And I guess that they are all so drawn into it that they think that everybody at home thinks the same as them.
It feels like a snowball effect that carries it's own momentum.

But I think that the show has pitched it all wrong because going by the vote things are just so unpredictable. Even if their approach appears to favour the people who they want, the ratings are pretty average.
They seem to be promoting certain people but they have still ended up in the bottom 3. For all we know they may have been ejected if it was purely down to the public vote.

I do feel that there is a degree of pressure put on us where we are 'supposed' to be supporting somebody in particular, and it almost feels as though there is an obligation for us to support them as well.

I think that the way that the show voting is constructed they will still manage to get the final that they appear to be seeking even if the actual voting is so inconsistent.

It's the same with all these voting talent/reality shows though, it feels as though the programme makers try to push for a certain outcome because they feel it would elicit the most votes, and they appear to rarely let fate take it's course. If they choose to promote somebody then they will be almost stubborn in their persistence to carry it through if they can. They do tend to find difficulty to change the script midway through a storyline.

I can't believe that they are trying to flog Ray to us as the star of the show. Has he been in the bottom 3 yet? If he hasn't then it may actually be working.
Last edited by Alrightmate : 13-03-2007 at 16:25

I'll bet you'll be in hysterics when you realise that not one person in this thread has said that they're fixing it for him to win.

And you must be wetting yourself to find out that Richard, the other judges and practically everybody involved with the presentation of the show are clearly rallying behind Ray and don't really have a bad word to say about his performances.

I don't think that they are that bothered if he doesn't win. It's surely more about trying to create stories that they think the public will like that have a beginning, a middle, and an end.

I think it would be quite plausible to suggest that they might want to promote certain people in order to get people more engaged so that they are more likely to vote.
Last edited by Alrightmate : 13-03-2007 at 16:46

As a footie fan... and it may have already been said on this thread... we are constantly being told to vote for Stubbsy on the digital BBC footie shows and are even shown clips.

Regards

They work for the BBC

Sheesh, it's for charity people! Blokes who have been made to watch the show by thier OHs prob vote for Ray because their OH is voting for Angelica or whoever... my OH watches about 10 mins or so a night of it but he's rooting for Ray just because... well it's Ray Stubbs and he grew up with him commentating on the footie (and my OH isn't even a massive footy fan). People vote for lots of reasons... what I find even more funny though are the contestants obviously taking the show and themselves faaaaaaar too seriously... it's all pantomine but we watch it because we like it, it's not a farce at all IMO, it's comic relief for gawds sake

No-one is being forced to vote for him.

I definately heard them say his Strangers in the Night performance was truly awful Which of course it was.

I am a bit confused why some FMs are getting bothered by Ray's staying in. As long as the votes are coming in, does anyone really care who wins ? I find the programme entertaining, and yes, there are those that have gone that I would have liked to see more of (Tim & Mel in particular), but I don't feel emotional about it - if people give money to RND by voting for a person they like rather than someone who can sing then that's fine by me.

I'm all for discussion of who's good & who's bad, but all the 'XXXX shouldn't be there threads' when XXXX is giving it a good effort for charity makes it seem like some FMs are taking it a bit too seriously

Well I hope that you don't think that I'm bothered.
I'm not bothered and I really don't care who wins.

You appear to assume that people are emotional, but I think many people are just seeing it as discussion.
I do agree with the OP that it's a farce...but it doesn't mean that I'm that bothered. I expect it from these shows.
Last edited by Alrightmate : 13-03-2007 at 17:19

It's just that I'd prefer to see someone who isn't taking it too seriously win.

That's why I don't want Tricia or Shaun to win. They are trained singers and it would take away from the enjoyment of it if they did win

I didn't say you were bothered - but you do seem bothered that I might think you are bothered

It may be a farce, but I can't see the issue with that at all - it's all about raising money. If it were x-factor or something, when the outcome changes people's lives, then fair enough - but it's just a few celebs making idiots of themselves for charity

The OP has started a few threads on Mr Stubbs, so it does seem that they are bothered - I just don't see why

Well you were responding to my post so I thought I should clarify myself just in case you were.

I think the main issue people might have is that it makes proceedings come across as too forced and unnatural in respect to their enjoyment of the show.

It may well be about raising money, but it's still got to work as an entertainment show.
It's no good telling people that it's just a bit of entertainment, it's all for charidee, it's just meant to be a bit of fun. Because if people are put off by it then they won't be watching so therefore won't be voting anyway.

I'm not aware of what the OP has posted before, but other people in the thread may have all sorts of different points of views in the discussion. Not everybody is the OP, they might agree with something that the OP says but not necessarily everything.
Last edited by Alrightmate : 13-03-2007 at 17:40

Sorry - I was only really responding to the bit I highlighted (I was disgreeing by saying that Ray had been slated by the judges at some point). The rest was just a general discussion

I find the programme entertaining - even when the performances are bad - sometimes especially when the performances are bad

That's exactly it. I don't mind that much who wins, but I do care who I watch, and I really don't like the fact that so many of those left really aren't pleasant to listen to.

Oh It's okay. I said that he hadn't really had a bad word said against him, meaning in general.
They are all just too supportive of him.

He seems a likeable enough bloke, but even he seems bemused at the compliments. And if I'm honest he's pretty canny and uses the opportuinity to grab the mike and use the opportunity to say crowd pleasing platitudes.
So I believe that he wants to stay in as much as most of the others, but maybe not as much as others.

It would just be much better if the judges were more honest. It's more a criticism of the judges than Ray himself as far as I'm concerned.

Just now and again I'd wish the judges, and the other people involved in the show (Sara and Dom and other guests) were just honest and said that Ray was crap once or twice.
If he gets ejected, fine.
If he stays, equally fine.

It would just be better if the praise and criticisms were more honest and less fictional.

That rubbish. People vote for who they like not what they do for a living. I think hes so bad that hes good and thats why I like him.

As for comparing him to Jade and Chantelle Whats that all about

The public are not very good at picking when the answer is not obvious - its worse when there are fewer voting. Some shows like the recent DOI pull back at the end when more people are voting and put the best people into the final but its two people too late for this CFA. Its also because people don't all vote rationally for what the the competition is supposedly about . Most people according to psychological experiments leap to assumptions and pick up what story they are offered - experience tells us that. too. Some shows just go with that and offer up a winner with an unconvincing big story rather than let the contestants compete as equals.On this show, the best singers may not get there when the standard isn't as high as it was last time because its obvious no one is as good as past finalists and less obvious who deserves to be in the final.

it may be self fulfilling. The people who wanted good singing may not be watching this time. - lots of people are not by the ratings. The people who wanted comedy like Ruby Wax may be voting for Ray rather than Tim and Mel because their style here was more subtle. On the other hand, if Parkie knows all the votes are going to Ray he's going to build up Ray and gert more votes where he can. If being nasty to Angellica or Shaun or Tara brings in more votes than praising them - thats what he will do. As there is no one really good to win he may not care.
Last edited by thenetworkbabe : 13-03-2007 at 20:13

Yeah yeah yeah this is about the third or fourth anti Stubbs thread you've started. You'll have to get over disliking him I think.

We get the message, you don't like him so don't vote for him.

He was pilloried for his Sinatra and given it for the U2 performance as well. At least he takes it on the chin at the same time not getting carried away with some of the admittedly ott praise he had earlier in the competition.

Well I haven't voted for anyone for years. If I want to give to Comic Relief it'll be when they get ALL the money, not a percentage. Most pps are like me I think.

so that puts AM's and anyone elses conspiracy theories in the dustbin doesn't it?

But if I did vote, it wouldn't be for Ray. Laid back, nice fellow that he appears to be.
Last edited by tally : 13-03-2007 at 20:20

There's none of them that much cop as singers, even the one's they are raving about and certainly not Ray

I agree. They're sending out so many mixed messages about what people should be voting for. One minute they say that somebody provides emotion, the next minute it's about performance, the next minute it's about needing to save the best singers, and then they try to tell us what Comic Relief is all about.
They may as well say that it doesn't matter who progresses and just admit that their opinions are only relevent when it's convenient so we may as well ignore the judges comments and vote for any reason we feel like.
Which is probably what the people who are voting are doing anyway.

When one of the contestants is being praised for being terrible, whilst another is crucified for the same thing, and when the singing doesn't even matter according to the judges, then the viewers don't know whether they are coming or going then it probably ends up as one big mess where people can be evicted randomly.

And yes I agree that the ratings are much lower than I would have expected them to be. So although there may be polarised fanbases they are probably so few in number that the casual vote is possibly almost as powerful.
Last edited by Alrightmate : 13-03-2007 at 20:27

Ray almost looks like he's embarrassed by the praise, as though he knows that they're talking nonsense.