Yeah, I have to agree with you there. I think he hardly even listens to them.

On LF he is great. He knows it's all a load of nonsense, unlike Trish and Colin and Shawn.

He's like Rudyard Kiplings' IF, he treats both the imposters of praise and damnation just the same.

It has NOWT to do with singing IMO.

Its now got to the stage where the judges have to start praising everyone left as it would otherwise give the game away they were nearly all rubbish. A final between people described as bland, soulless, unemotional and downright earache inducing wouldn't sound very credible. I expect they will have more goes at Tara too to get her more votes. As you say some will believe it. Not sure of Ray either - he does talk about performing well enough to get the public vote when he means badly enough.

I'm not sure about that. I actually wonder if he believes he's good.

Yes there is a subtlety to Mr Ray Stubbs that few people actually notice. He is always striving to say the right thing. Tonight for someone who doesn't care to me he looked like he was wetting himself when he ended up the bottom three. Only the pantomime episode with Lesley Garrett 'oh I don't know what to do' cue audience 'Stubbsy' 'ah yes Stubbsy'. Unbelievable considering Colin's worst vocal has been miles better than anything Ray has managed. Returning to the point I strongly suspect Stubbsy has an ego at least on a par with anyone in the competition.

Its time for you to start banging a different drum because he's still in there fighting and we know you don't like him so why do you need to go on about it.

In the other direction, it made sense that they criticised Tricia and Shaun arguably too much earlier, and then praised them more, since it gives them a story arc (aka journey).

But Ray has been heavily praised from the start - especially by Richard.

You answered the question for me - because he is still there. The subtle way he is attempting to gain votes is not something I have mentioned before. If everyone just made one post about someone this forum would shrink rapidly. If you want to defend mediocrity that's your bag - I guess you have made more than one positive comment about Ray and I am not going to suggest you stop doing it because for whatever reason you like him.

That's probably true about Tricia and Shaun... I suppose David and Carrie probably want to take credit for their improvement too!

I don't understand Richard's obsession with Ray being good. Does he really think last night's performance was the best act of the whole series or is he just trying to be funny?

I have to disagree some with that. I'm not saying it didn't happen as you said with the e-mails; but one thing I noticed when I was watching the BBC3 show last night was that whenever someone praised Tara, the male presenter (Dom?) would undermine it. It happened with Angelica, with Katrina, and with the fashion guy.

Also of the three guests who were there to comment on the night's performances, Ninia was very hostile to Tara, Little Chris (?) seemed negative, and only Katrina praised her. Katrina seemed very "off message" if we go by Dom's reactions. She praised Tara in quite strong terms, said she didn't understand Ray's popularity, and even made fun of his singing style in the way she imitated it.

The audience (though not necessarily the same people) seemed to like both Ray and Tara.

*plays Katrina and the Waves cd*
Last edited by Veri : 14-03-2007 at 10:45

But what is the "competition supposedly about"?

Because of the Academy element, it can't just be about who's the best singer.

Because it's for Comedy Relief, maybe comedy's important.

The judges comments are sometimes about singing, sometimes about other aspects of the performance, sometimes about progress.

When the comments are about singing, sometimes they're about hitting the right notes and being in time, sometimes they're about conveying emotion, sometimes they're about whether it was sung the way others have and as it "should" be, sometimes about "making it their own" by singing it differently.

The presenters encourage us to vote for the one we want to save, especially if they seem to be in danger.

The judges say one thing, Carrie and David another; the audience boos anything negative.

The votes often seem to be about which ones sing earlier in the show and which ones later!

It's a minefield for the celebs. If they cry, it's for the "sympathy vote". If they're confident, they're smug. If they ever mention winning, they're in it for the wrong reason. If the judges praise them, it's favouritism. If they improve, it's a "journey".

*shrugs*

I'll vote for the ones I enjoy watching or listening to and want to see more of, regardless of how good a singer they are by conventional standards.


I think something's gone wrong with all the "talent" shows recently. Both the judges' comments and the voting results seem to be all over the place.

I think part of the problem is that the people making the shows have noticed that judges' comments can work backwards (with praise losing someone votes and dissing bringing votes in). So sometimes the judges to try second-guess the voters and make comments designed to get the desired effect rather than to express their honest opinions. If they do that, it increases cynicism and confusion; but if they don't, the voting results can be perverse in terms of how deserving the performances actually were.

I think he pulls off the 'blokey, non-singer' thing quite well - compare Colin's attempts at 'ironic distance' during some of his performances and you'll see that Ray has an apparent genuine quality which is pretty effective.

If talking and very occasionally throwing in a little bit of singing (completely out of tune) is pulling it off then he does it brilliantly. The problem with the comparison to Colin is fact he can actually sing in tune. On a couple of nights Colin has been the best on the night whereas I will admit Ray has been more consistent in the fact he has turned in a bottom three effort every night.

Erm ... this is going to be one of those 'opinion' things but Colin really doesn't sound at all pleasant to my ears - but there you go, I guess that's what makes opinions opinions .

I just happen to find Ray's performances less gauche than Colin's.

Neither of them has done a performance fully in tune yet, but Colin's made a much more decent attempt and has at least shown a bit of improvement.

I've made a few positive comments about Ray, out of over 1,300 overall.

You've made a number of negative ones, but out of 79, and in doing so have started more than one anti-Stubbs thread. There's only one Stubbs appreciation thread.
Last edited by Faxy Fowler : 14-03-2007 at 18:03