DS Forums

 
 

What a Joke


 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14-03-2007, 23:57
micjay
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 337
I agree Reality shows do try and manipulate viewers and can choose whether to show someone positively or negatively.

I first warmed to Tara on IACGMOOH when although she showed a irritating, attention seeking bad side, she also showed a kind, sensitive, self deprecating and humourous good side.

Again on this show we have seen both sides of her and I still think the good side outweighs the bad. The last three or four evictees have all said they want her to win so she can't be a big spoiled diva behind the scenes. They have all lived with her and everyone who has left the academy has said she is nothing like the person they read about in the papers. They all agree she is barking mad and dizzy but accept that and like her faults and all.
micjay is offline  
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 15-03-2007, 00:05
lulu g
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 43,531
Originally Posted by Reality Sucks
But Ray has been artificially bigged up as much as Tara by Richard Park especially. I don't think anything the judges say has any bearing on how the public vote TBH. ...
Ray is another example of what I was talking about. If he hadn't been 'artificially bigged up' by the judges, do you really think he would have stayed so long?

Last edited by lulu g : 15-03-2007 at 00:10.
lulu g is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 00:50
Reality Sucks
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 26,363
Originally Posted by lulu g
Ray is another example of what I was talking about. If he hadn't been 'artificially bigged up' by the judges, do you really think he would have stayed so long?
I think he might have because he had some very good songs. Going Underground - Lola - Hit Me with Your Rythm Stick and you really don't need too much of a voice for them. Shaun's song choices have been a bit old fashioned to appeal to the masses and Trisha's disco diva stuff is also a bit dated though the Alicia Keys number was good.

Tara's had some good songs as has Colin and I'd say about 80% of success is due to the songs they pick as well as their personalities.
Reality Sucks is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 01:31
lulu g
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 43,531
Originally Posted by Reality Sucks
I think he might have because he had some very good songs. Going Underground - Lola - Hit Me with Your Rythm Stick and you really don't need too much of a voice for them. Shaun's song choices have been a bit old fashioned to appeal to the masses and Trisha's disco diva stuff is also a bit dated though the Alicia Keys number was good.

Tara's had some good songs as has Colin and I'd say about 80% of success is due to the songs they pick as well as their personalities.
Well, I still think that hype is a significant factor, but I will agree that song choice (both good and bad) can make a difference. In particular, I thought 'Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick' was an inspired choice for Ray. I have to say I was as astonished that he was in the bottom three that night as I was that he was not in the bottom three most nights.
lulu g is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 01:37
tomorrow
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WHATM - RIP BB
Posts: 31,478
Originally Posted by tuvok39tuvok
... and I am tone deaf (So what do I know)
Exactly.

You have highlighted your own deficiencies in that area - however, all is not lost. Visual performance is also of vital importance of the enjoyment of the voting viewer .... very important if you listen to the words of the song too ... so all is not lost.

Tomorrow evening ... watch and listen to the words of the song - you will see the performance itself is so very important - I expect you will probably want to make a vote or two for Tara then ....

Enjoy.
tomorrow is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 01:49
Reality Sucks
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 26,363
Originally Posted by lulu g
Well, I still think that hype is a significant factor, but I will agree that song choice (both good and bad) can make a difference. In particular, I thought 'Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick' was an inspired choice for Ray. I have to say I was as astonished that he was in the bottom three that night as I was that he was not in the bottom three most nights.

I've never yet met anyone who would admit to being influenced by the judges though - it's always "the others"
But you could be right - I just know that I vote for who I like.
Reality Sucks is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 02:14
lulu g
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 43,531
Originally Posted by Reality Sucks
I've never yet met anyone who would admit to being influenced by the judges though - it's always "the others"
But you could be right - I just know that I vote for who I like.
I've never met anyone who would admit to it either, but then you wouldn't expect them to, would you? Of course there will always be people who really do just vote for who they like regardless of what anyone else says, but there are also an awful lot of suggestible people.
lulu g is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 02:41
Alrightmate
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,736
Originally Posted by Reality Sucks
I think he might have because he had some very good songs. Going Underground - Lola - Hit Me with Your Rythm Stick and you really don't need too much of a voice for them. Shaun's song choices have been a bit old fashioned to appeal to the masses and Trisha's disco diva stuff is also a bit dated though the Alicia Keys number was good.

Tara's had some good songs as has Colin and I'd say about 80% of success is due to the songs they pick as well as their personalities.
I agree. I think the public vote more on songs than they do performances.
I remember this even being discussed back in the early days of FA.

If you get a song that's a public favourite you're 75% there.
I remember it being no surpise in Fame Academy 2 when Alex Parks was given 'Imagine' to sing on the day of the final. It's only the UK general public's most popular song ever.

I think that like in The X Factor the vocal coaches have a big say in what songs contestants should sing.
I don't care if they say that the contestants get a say, I think that they are strongly advised which songs to go for.
I remember some songs this series that have been sung by contestants that are famous pop songs, but they don't really work as performance songs on this type of show and don't lend themselves well in scope of what can be done with them.
Colin and Ray got the big performance songs, the types of songs that are anthems or are very memorable.

Lightweight pop songs don't lend themselves very well for a big Fame Academy performance in my opinion.
I won't be too surprised if by sometime between now and the final Colin gets Steve Harley and Cockney Rebel's 'Smile' to sing. And he can't really go far wrong with something like that. It's a tune which is engrained in the public consciousness and is excellent for performance purposes.
I think of that last song sung by Angellica, that repetitively annoying 'nah nah nah, na na na nah nah' Kylie song, and she didn't have a prayer really no matter how well she sang it.

If on the day of the final one of them is given a very popular song by somebody like The Beatles or even the big one 'Imagine', then I think that they'll have won....no question.

Last edited by Alrightmate : 15-03-2007 at 02:52.
Alrightmate is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 07:45
rosieeee
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,504
Originally Posted by Reality Sucks
Hear hear, I voted for Tara and Colin tonight because their performance, though not technically perfect, moved me, something that Shaun and Tricia have failed to do from the start. Shaun has grown on me though as he's thrown himself into the experience. Tricia is only getting through because she's teacher's pet - I'm sure sh'd be gone by now if it was up to the public vote.
Yes if you are looking for singing ability Shaun and Tricia are the best in comparison to Colin and Tara - but Colin and Tara have charisma - Tara especially always seems to put her soul into it - Colin just enjoys it all - and they pull you in - when I watch Shaun and Tricia I think they are good - but I am sort of waiting for them to finish - yet I hate to miss watching Colin or Tara.
rosieeee is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 11:41
PeterWD
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lisburn
Posts: 1,723
Originally Posted by Alrightmate
I agree. I think the public vote more on songs than they do performances.
I remember this even being discussed back in the early days of FA.

If you get a song that's a public favourite you're 75% there.
I remember it being no surpise in Fame Academy 2 when Alex Parks was given 'Imagine' to sing on the day of the final. It's only the UK general public's most popular song ever.
During FA1 I correctly predicted the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in the final, four days beforehand. I must admit that I was unnerved when Richard Park made the same prediction on the afternoon of the final.

My reasoning was simple. All three of the students: David Sneddon, Sinead Quinn and Lemar Obika, were able to sing competently, leaving uncommitted voters to choose on the basis of their favourite music genre. At the time the most popular genre among the general public was Pop, followed by Rock, leaving Lemar's Hip-Hop/Urban in third place.
PeterWD is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 11:46
Reality Sucks
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 26,363
Originally Posted by Alrightmate
I agree. I think the public vote more on songs than they do performances.
I remember this even being discussed back in the early days of FA.

If you get a song that's a public favourite you're 75% there.
I remember it being no surpise in Fame Academy 2 when Alex Parks was given 'Imagine' to sing on the day of the final. It's only the UK general public's most popular song ever.

I think that like in The X Factor the vocal coaches have a big say in what songs contestants should sing.
I don't care if they say that the contestants get a say, I think that they are strongly advised which songs to go for.
I remember some songs this series that have been sung by contestants that are famous pop songs, but they don't really work as performance songs on this type of show and don't lend themselves well in scope of what can be done with them.
Colin and Ray got the big performance songs, the types of songs that are anthems or are very memorable.

Lightweight pop songs don't lend themselves very well for a big Fame Academy performance in my opinion.
I won't be too surprised if by sometime between now and the final Colin gets Steve Harley and Cockney Rebel's 'Smile' to sing. And he can't really go far wrong with something like that. It's a tune which is engrained in the public consciousness and is excellent for performance purposes.
I think of that last song sung by Angellica, that repetitively annoying 'nah nah nah, na na na nah nah' Kylie song, and she didn't have a prayer really no matter how well she sang it.

If on the day of the final one of them is given a very popular song by somebody like The Beatles or even the big one 'Imagine', then I think that they'll have won....no question.

I could be wrong, but I had the impression that they brought a list of songs that they had chosen for themselves into the Academy with them and they had to stick with the list. I think the duets and so on are picked by the tutors.

Colin's doing "The Boys are back in Town tonight" which isn't far off Cockney Rebel. I think apart from Love and Marriage and Unchained Melody his song choices have been very good.

If you're right though expect a rendition of Goodbye England's Rose from Shaun in the final
Reality Sucks is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 13:27
booklover
 
Posts: n/a
I like Tara. She is crackers, and I agree she is very manipulative. She reminds me a little child who gets the sulks when she doesn't get her own way. But despite all that, I do like her. However, she can't really sing very well. Her piano playing is amazing, and she did do a great performance of These Boots Were Made For Walking, but that's about it.

I really don't see the attraction in Colin. He's an arrogant upstart, and most of his performances have been dismal. Their duet last night was really really painful. I was amazed that those two got through on the public vote.
 
Old 15-03-2007, 16:03
jos
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Yorkshire Wolds
Posts: 9,783
Can all the popular recording artists sing?
I think not. It is about interpretation, presentation and an individual style not just a good singing voice.

There are thousands of club/pub singers around who have terrific voices but can't get a break because they all sound the same nothing individual that makes them stand out.

That's why Tara is popular - simply it is her whole round individual performance.
jos is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 17:05
MsApplePie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 493
Originally Posted by Alrightmate
I think that like in The X Factor the vocal coaches have a big say in what songs contestants should sing.
I don't care if they say that the contestants get a say, I think that they are strongly advised which songs to go for.
I remember some songs this series that have been sung by contestants that are famous pop songs, but they don't really work as performance songs on this type of show and don't lend themselves well in scope of what can be done with them.
Colin and Ray got the big performance songs, the types of songs that are anthems or are very memorable.
I overheard - i think on live feed the other day - someone say they have to give in a list of about 50 songs they'd like to sing. Then, the final selection of what songs they actually get is done by the tutors - they find out the day before what songs they are going to do the next day. but there does seem to be a bit of swapping about . Unless they made a mistake on BBC3 last night, Tricia was going to have Penny Lane but now Tara has it.

Originally Posted by Alrightmate
If on the day of the final one of them is given a very popular song by somebody like The Beatles or even the big one 'Imagine', then I think that they'll have won....no question.
hmmm!

Last edited by MsApplePie : 15-03-2007 at 17:08.
MsApplePie is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 17:14
Phil2003
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,334
Originally Posted by booklover
I like Tara. She is crackers, and I agree she is very manipulative. She reminds me a little child who gets the sulks when she doesn't get her own way. But despite all that, I do like her. However, she can't really sing very well. Her piano playing is amazing, and she did do a great performance of These Boots Were Made For Walking, but that's about it.

I really don't see the attraction in Colin. He's an arrogant upstart, and most of his performances have been dismal. Their duet last night was really really painful. I was amazed that those two got through on the public vote.
I agree with most of what you say. There is something very likeable about Tara's performances, but her singing is just not that great.

Colin doesn't even have the likeability factor and his singing hasn't really improved at all. I don't understand the attraction either.
Phil2003 is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 17:19
mossy2103
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 68,697
Originally Posted by Phil2003
I agree with most of what you say. There is something very likeable about Tara's performances, but her singing is just not that great.
Yes, the same could be said of Bob Dylan, or perhaps Morrissey (not that I am in any way suggeting that TPT is anywhere near the level of brilliance of these artists).

And as for singing in general, what about that Icelandic woman Bjork? Jeez, what a voice!
mossy2103 is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 17:24
lulu g
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 43,531
Originally Posted by MsApplePie
I overheard - i think on live feed the other day - someone say they have to give in a list of about 50 songs they'd like to sing. Then, the final selection of what songs they actually get is done by the tutors - they find out the day before what songs they are going to do the next day. but there does seem to be a bit of swapping about . Unless they made a mistake on BBC3 last night, Tricia was going to have Penny Lane but now Tara has it.



hmmm!
Hmmm indeed!
lulu g is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 17:28
cherry o
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 12,904
Originally Posted by MsApplePie
I overheard - i think on live feed the other day - someone say they have to give in a list of about 50 songs they'd like to sing. Then, the final selection of what songs they actually get is done by the tutors - they find out the day before what songs they are going to do the next day. but there does seem to be a bit of swapping about . Unless they made a mistake on BBC3 last night, Tricia was going to have Penny Lane but now Tara has it.



hmmm!
They definately said Tara would be singing Penny lane on the BBc3 show last night. We had a discussion about it afterwards in our household.
cherry o is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 18:04
JTW
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 41,094
Originally Posted by cherry o
They definately said Tara would be singing Penny lane on the BBc3 show last night. We had a discussion about it afterwards in our household.
Just watched her practising with Kevin when I tuned into livefeed and Tara is definitely singing Penny Lane tonight.

I don't really feel confident about her singing upeat songs (with the exception of "These Boots Were Made for Walking").

I much prefer her doing ballads as it's the emotion she puts into it that wins her through.
It's too close to the final for her to sing a song that is unsuitable for what has primarily sold her to the public so far.

I hope this is not a bad night for her.
JTW is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 22:28
Veri
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 90,767
Originally Posted by lulu g
Ray is another example of what I was talking about. If he hadn't been 'artificially bigged up' by the judges, do you really think he would have stayed so long?
Since I don't know why he stayed so long (and neither does anyone else here), I can't say whether changing one factor would have made any difference.

I'm suspicious of the theory that Ray was popular becuase he was "bigged up". Often, when the judges praise someone it seems to work against them.

The way you and Alrightmate are going, nothing is true, no reaction is genuine, and it all comes down to which "memes" have been planted and happen to take.
Veri is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 22:40
lulu g
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 43,531
Originally Posted by Veri
... The way you and Alrightmate are going, nothing is true, no reaction is genuine, and it all comes down to which "memes" have been planted and happen to take.
No, that is not my view at all, and I don't think it's Alrightmate's (though he can correct me if I'm wrong). Some things really are true, some reactions really are genuine, but a lot of people are easily influenced. I'm sure you have witnessed that before, perhaps even in the DS forums?
lulu g is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 22:53
loddellbosh
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sussex
Posts: 4,749
I like Tara but she shouldn't be in the final.

Shaun and Tricia are the only two out of the whole thirteen contestants that could sing.
None of the final five (memory won't go back further than that at the mo) were my favourites, but it should have been a Shaun/Tricia final.

But oh well.
loddellbosh is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 23:05
ItHasPotential
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,689
so a coke head gets put through to the final, here's me thinking the GBP had brains.
ItHasPotential is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 23:05
JTW
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 41,094
Seems we have a combination of theories here on who should be through and why.

We have the editing and subliminal messages from the pro 'whoever' camp from the show itself who gradually feed their own hype into our heads all week. Added to that are influences from other people who may persuade us...like forums, media etc.

And then we have people who firmly believe it is a singing contest and the best with most technical ability deserves to win.

And then we have people who think it shouldn't be taken at all seriously because it's for Comedy Relief and therefore a comedian or someone of less technical but improvable qualities should win.

And then there's personality, emotion and the livefeed side of things that entertains who should win.

Some of us are a combination of any of the above and some of us again like or dislike through past knowledge of a contestant.

It certainly sounds a bit more complex than just summing it up as just one of the reasons given above and is far more likely to be a combination of either one of them.
JTW is offline  
Old 15-03-2007, 23:08
rosieeee
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,504
in the end does it matter? As long as it raises masses of money for the cause it is intended for?
rosieeee is offline  
 
 




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:54.