Why do I get the feeling the Judoon will have gruff cockney accents?

Are you feeling alright tonight BG? you seem to have fallen into some bizarre 'Carry-on' film alternate universe???
Last edited by CAMERA OBSCURA : 20-03-2007 at 00:40

Yes but (un)fortunately my time machine remains active so I can just go back to 2005 and get another one!

*Is sure he'll wake up tomorrow with every thread replied to with the words "...a bit like the Slitheen!" just to gain revenge!"

Which may confuse a few 24, Stargate and Life on Mars fans, but meh, it'd be worth it!

He doesn't rubbish the old show though. I've yet to see an single example. I'm mystified as to where this impression comes from.


Go on - don't just make assertions - tell me of one occasion where Clay Hickman rubbished the old series. The best you'll find is a reference to the new series being able to do things with props and FX that the old couldn't - which is true.

And you completely ignored the full content of my post in favour of a cheap post. Seriously - is this the level of RTD criticism? The whole 'lets completely ignore context in favour of a cheap shot mischaracterisation of what happened'?

In full context... you're still extremely easily pleased!

Of course. Who's preventing people from voicing their opinions when they think something doesn't work? We all have our views. I thought Father's Day was a weak story - I think I'm in a major minority among fans. I loved Love & Monsters - I seem to be in a majority of fans - but only just. I loved The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit - there si seem to be in a majority amongst fans. That's a good thing - it shows the show is varied and tries lost of different things that work for different people to different degrees.

As long as people don't either a) rewrite history to pretend thinsg were received differently to how they actually were; and b) don't run away with the idea that their personal view represents a fan consensus.


Surley you joke? If anything JNT in the 80s listened to the fans too much. He gave us lots of stories that were filled with obsessive continuity (two multi-Doctor stories, a sequel to a story from 1966 for no good reason etc.). He even 'employed' Ian Levine, a 'super-fan' to act as a continuity advisor.

Sadly - once he gave the fans what they thought they wanted - many of them turned round and attacked him for doing so.


The only way that fans helped bring it back was that people work for the BBC now who loved the series way back and thought it a good idea to try it again. The few thousand people who continued in fandom from 1989 to 2005 were, in no way, a catalyst for bringing the series back. The people in charge merely considered it a property that could have mass appeal again in the right hands.

As for the 'episodes that don't work' - how does that work again? Firstly - those of us who are fans remain in the thousands - compared to an audience of millions (no episode yet has had less than 8 million over a week, five ended up with over 10 million). So even if every one of us agreed on any issue - it would be a drop in the ocean.

Secondly - there is no fan consensus on any issue. So what are we supposed to say and what are we supposed to be listened on? If you tell RTD that the Slitheen are a bad idea, I'll tell him they weren't. What should he do - toss a coin?

Finally - what's this about 'keeping it with us'? The show got better ratings in its second series than the first. The books sold more. The annual was huge. The toys sold more. The Doctor Who Adventures magazine went from second to best -selling kids magazine. The AI figures increased, on average, in series two. Just what possible fate are the views of fans going to save the show from? The very pinnacle of popularity it now holds?


No rumour. The Slitheen were due to be the slave race in TIP/TSP - but the Ood were developed instead.

But here is a prime example. I have no idea how popular/unpopular the Slitheen are with fans. I'm not aware of any poll - but I've heard opinions both ways. I'll tell you this though - I work with secondary age kids - and the Slitheen were big with them - they wanted to see them again in series 2. Not as big as the Daleks or Cybermen - but the next generation of fans will, I suspect, place them at number three just as older fans might put the Ice Warrors of Sontarans there. Even casual viewers I work with talk of the aliens with the zip (curiously - that's the description they use - no mention of farting) with fondness.

I'm not even saying the Slitheen are popular overall with the general viewer either - I really don't know. But it seems an odd assumption that RTD would listen to those fans who have one opinion of them and make any decision based on that.

Hell - I want to see more Raxacoricofallapitorians in the series...!

And you make sweeping, superficial statements - but we all have our faults...!

True. Still, thank the lucky stars confusing "juvenile shite" with "genius" isn't one of mine.

True - yours is mistaking genius for juvenile shite by completely ignoring context. I've never been good at that.

I am sure when we do finally see this genius we will be the first to acknowledge it!

they do say love is blind.........

think the company I keep on here brings out a side to me I never knew existed!

And yet I wasn't the only one to come away with that impression. I'm taking it you either know or have met the guy. Perhaps that's why you have taken a more favourable view of his comments. I came away from watching DWC with the thoughts "Do you even like the old series? Why are you writing for DWM about a show you seem to hate".

it is more the smug attitude that Who is so much better now Russell is in charge and in many ways he is right..in his role as Exec Producer..but as writer of sci-fi he will never up there with the likes of Holmes from the classic, nor Moffat/Shearman from the new.

sure the classic series was far from perfect but nor is the new either so it isn't a question of me preferring the old over the present. nor do I think it is wise or sensible to place things on a pedesatal or that one particular person should be revered..they normally come crashing down from up high or end up disappointing you at some point.

it was that kind of smugness and complacency back in the 80's that took Who down that slippery slope.

we have people already proclaiming that series 3 is fantastic when it hasn't even been transmitted as yet. they are basing that on a few clips as seen in the trailer. I really do hope that it is the success that it deserves to be but I will make my own mind up after I have seen it rather than jumping the gun and automatically assuming it will be just out of blind loyalty.
Last edited by Black Guardian : 20-03-2007 at 10:13

can I suggest you watch it without the rose tinted spectacles.

Steven Moffat or Robert Shearman should be head writer for Doctor Who.

Now I come to think of it, the Slitheen were okay - but the farting was what rubbished them for me. I know they had an explanation for it but nevertheless, they farted - a fart being something which is giggled upon often.

you will now have people rushing to defend them saying they were never meant to be taken seriously. some credible alien threat eh!

That statement may be true but are there not just as many claiming that the series will be rubbish based on the same few clips or episode titles or even the fact that RTD has written some episodes.

Like you I will make my own mind up when I see it - but there are just as many boo boys on here isnt there?

I'd still like to know how people can criticise Candyman from "The Happiness Patrol" yet defend the Slitheen. Both are Doctor Who at it's worst yet the Slitheen get defended and the Candyman doesn't.

will be honest Yorkie and say that the trailer/clips I have seen so far have not over excited me as the one's in previous years but I am still open minded and cautiously optimistic.

if people don't like his episodes or any others for that matter by a different writer then they should be able to voice that in the same way those who do can. wouldn't make much for a debate if everyone kept on saying the same thing.

Do you think that your attitude could just be the same thing that happens to all series though - its always more difficult to sustain the hype past more than about 2 series?

I am looking forward to seeing the new girl though and the 2 parter by Moffat.

I was very excited by series one and two prior to their transmission Yorkie. having been disappointed by some of the episodes in series two and then The Runaway Bride I am adopting a cautiously optimistic stance in the hope I will be surprised.

Steven Moffat is only penning one episode..Blink...this series. Paul Cornell has done one of the two parters along with Helen Raynor.

So - as I thought - no-one can actually point to an example of this supposed hatred for the old series.

Might I suggest you are looking for what you have already pre-determined must be there?

I'm just watching and noting the comments he actually makes. So unless someone can direct me to a comment to look at I'm genuinely puzzled as to what you are referring to.

You just watching the cut-down DWC on the DVD Boxset? Isn't that an edited 2.5 hours, compared to the 6.5 hours of DWC that actually screened?