Sorry I was sure I read it was a Moffat 2 parter. Is this the same Cornell who wrote Fathers Day?

Were you really disappointed by more episodes in S2 than S1? - have to say for me it was the other way round. Judging by your other posts it seems that I tend to like more episodes than you.

what I said was the smug and rather arrogant attitude that came across in the programme that things were so much better in the new series than the old. without the classic series they wouldn't have a new one to gloat about. I appreciate that with a much higher budget and state of the art effects they can do much more but that should never compensate for the lack of a good story to go with it. in both old and new there are both.

you are a teacher didn't you say in one of your messages last night...I have every confidence that you can work it out.
Last edited by Black Guardian : 20-03-2007 at 20:05

I didn't realise I had entered a competition as to who liked more episodes.

It is indeed the same Paul Cornell from series one who has adapted one of his new adventures books..Human Nature.

Hell, I only ever watched one or two of those myself, and I noticed his joy at rubbishing of the old show. But you've heard of the old adage haven't you - those that can't, teach!?

Oh FFS. So - despite the list of criticisms I gave earlier of RTD stories and story elements I didn't like/have a problem with - you are going to simply assume that I can only see the Slitheen gas exchange/fart idea as genius because I blindly *love* RTD.

Are you actually interested in people disagreeing with your POV? Or have you decided that anyone with a different perspective must be blind to the truth? 'Cos that makes for really tedious discussions.

Believe it or not - when I say it is genius scripting - I absolutely mean it.

Y'know - I'm not making a direct comparison here but it is worth pointing out that Shakespeare, right up at the top of the scripting tree, used belching and farting for comical effect - and, on one occasion, to make a very poignant point. If it was good enough for him to fill his work with fart references - it seems a bit odd that people point to farting in a story now and say it is automatically a bad thing.

It reminds me of the dinner the Queen had with a new leader of a new African nation, a former tribal leader who was out of his depth. He was told many things - but prime amongst them was that he should always take his lead from the Queen. At some point in the meal the Queen let out a minor fart (which protocol suggests you ignore). He immediately let out a huge fart and loudly exclaimed: 'Thank you for farting your Majesty - I'm not sure I could have held it in any longer...!'.

The moral? That if someone at the top can get away with something - so can lesser lights. That, and that farting is intrinsically funny.

you are more than entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

never had a tedious discussion with anyone..until now.

Really? So the script for one episode is already out there? You read it, BG? Any good?

Ah - so it's attitude is it? Something as woolly as that? Still not seeing it I'm afraid. Point to something I can watch to see if I can see it too - or I'm just going to have to assume you are reading in what isn't there.

Yeah - and those who've never tried teaching have no idea what hard work is...!

When your opinion is 'You think differently to me therefore you simple blindly *love* RTD - then that is what makes things tedious.

that is what you would like to think and if that supports your arguement then so be it but I suggest you trawl back and read all of my messages rather than editing and selecting only one part of it whilst ignoring the rest.

if you think my messages tedious then again you are entitled to that opinion as well. I don't come on here to slag off RTD just for the sake of it or because I think it is funny. if I posted I hate RTD (as some do on here) and never backed that up then that is tedious but when I do I normally give detailed reasons as to why something didn't work for me.
Last edited by Black Guardian : 20-03-2007 at 20:27

You said: 'they do say love is blind'. The use of a smiley doesn't make it any the less of an attempt to undermine my opinion as a blind one.


I gave the reasons why I don't think that farting was bad scripting. The only replies I've had have been silly ones or the equivalent of 'you would say that'. I point out that I've wtahced the DWCs and can't see the slagging off that is supposed to be there. I ask for someone to point me to something - and get... nothing.

So why not demonstrate this 'backing up' you do? Instead of - y'know - posting tedious discussion breakers like: 'they do say love is blind' - which usually suggests someone who doesn't actually *have* an argument...

So because I've got better things to do than trawl through old episodes of DWC it proves you right? Give over. I'll tell you what, why don't you trawl through the episodes and compile the quotes. Then we can comment on them. Sound fair?

I don't have to justify myself to you as my record being a member of these forums for the past two years speak for themselves, as do my detailed messages on a variety of subjects. as someone who only dips in and out of here you can't judge me on the basis of a few messages that you did not like.

as for my use of smilies then if that offends you then so be it.

I said love is blind as someone's love for a series can blind them to it's faults..which I was guilty of myself once or twice with the classic series many years ago.

Generally those who make the assertion (i.e. that Clay Hickman is anti the old series in DWC) have the responsibility to back it up. If you can't point to anything - fine - but I'll just have to go by what I've observed rewatching them - namely that nothing of the sort happens.

Just because Shakespeare used it, doesn't mean it's going to be a "hit" in DW. He also covered rape and incest, but I'd rather they were kept to "Eastenders".

Not everything from back then, works today. Shakespeare also inhabited the same century as the Salem witch trials... very popular... seems a bit odd that people point to burning witches at the stake these days, and say it is automatically a bad thing. I've tried the "Shakespeare used it - was good enough for him" line, but nobody listens. Political Correctness gone mad!

there was a thread dedicated to this subject during the last series so use your wonderful research powers and go and find it.

You know - that would come across much better if, in response to my opinion, you had said - 'I disagree and have explained why elsewhere on these boards' rather than what you have actually done - attempt to portray me as blind to a series faults and use that to portray my arguments as weak.

I've covered in this very thread just how little 'love is blind as someone's love for a series can blind them to it's faults' applies to me. If your only response is going to be to continue to insinuate that - then you aren't really worth discussing with are you?

I'll tell you what I have observed here. Namely that many discussions on Who on Digital Spy end up being the same 5 or 6 people going over the same ground over and over. You might want to ponder why that is - just why people stay away and don't take part so much. Could it be that if anyone new raises their head above the parapets they don't get discussion, just the basis of their views mocked and rubbished?

Yes - I read it back then. It was small group of people interpeting the most inoccuous comments in the worst possible light for no good reason - and the same people complaining that people weren't being negative about the new series in DWC - a program with a supportive remit.

I just hoped that people could offer something more concrete this time. Ah well.

Listen - I get it. I interupted the five person circle jerk that normally goes on in Doctor Who threads here. My apologies - I'll leave you to it.

so that is your angle now? we attack and villify anyone who hold other opinions is that what you are suggesting? you can do better than that surely!

everyone who comes on here holds passionate views and I've had many a lengthy debate with people were others have interpreted as being hostile but it wasn't. it was just a group of people displaying their passion and love for a programme, just with different opinions.

But I'm not trying to prove myself, you are. So I'll repeat my request and suggest that you use your free time to compile the quotes (thats what, some 30 minutes x 28 episodes?). It's fair enough if you do not wish to do that but perhaps you shouldn't be asking people to do something you aren't willing to do yourself.

and then it was four! shame as I had just made you honourary President!
Last edited by Black Guardian : 20-03-2007 at 21:08

oh! you remember it now! took your time to mention that after asking us to provide examples... so surely you will remember that a lot were provided in that thread at the time.

I'm not sure I was taking this thread entirely seriously?

Surely Dr. Thete can't comment, as he's only watching the DWC's on the DVD, which is heavily edited and appears to have lost 4 hours of footage this season.