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Do You Have To Be A "Bitch" To Be A Good Business Woman?


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Old 28-03-2007, 22:23
ILoveMyDog
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Wondered what you thought?

Can a "nice" woman be successful in this business?
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Old 28-03-2007, 22:52
magnificent
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I wouldnt say a 'nice' woman would or could not be successful in business (because 'nice' is a bit of a non word in context), but i think as a woman in business you have to have mettle, be firm, not be affected by your womanhood; in your dealings with men in business (and this is my own personal preference) - have an air of androgeny, be a team player, show no outward weaknesses, be physically and mentally strong and never bet against your female instinct, and last but not least never rest the laurels of your looks to get you through in business - men will never let you live to forget it.

Bitching in business is futile and just makes you look bad amongst your peers both male and female.

Just a few things I've picked up along the way.......
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Old 28-03-2007, 23:09
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I didn't word my question how I wanted to, but you replied perfectly!

I don't mean to imply all business ladies are bitches, but when I think about them I always think of someone like Gerry from tonight's show- pretty scary!
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Old 28-03-2007, 23:17
rosieeee
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Originally Posted by magnificent
I wouldnt say a 'nice' woman would or could not be successful in business (because 'nice' is a bit of a non word in context), but i think as a woman in business you have to have mettle, be firm, not be affected by your womanhood; in your dealings with men in business (and this is my own personal preference) - have an air of androgeny, be a team player, show no outward weaknesses, be physically and mentally strong and never bet against your female instinct, and last but not least never rest the laurels of your looks to get you through in business - men will never let you live to forget it.

Bitching in business is futile and just makes you look bad amongst your peers both male and female.

Just a few things I've picked up along the way.......
couldn't have put it better - it still can be a mans world out there - and despite the 21st century - some men still feel women are inferior - so you have to be able to stand your ground - in a non-agressive but convincing way.
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Old 28-03-2007, 23:30
Jamie181
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There's a complete double standard though.

A strong business-woman is labelled as a bitch, but a strong man is assertive.
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Old 28-03-2007, 23:54
rosieeee
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Originally Posted by Jamie181
There's a complete double standard though.

A strong business-woman is labelled as a bitch, but a strong man is assertive.
yes unfortunately - that's life
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Old 28-03-2007, 23:57
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I'm nice and I'm successful
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Old 28-03-2007, 23:57
ILoveMyDog
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Yes, and more likely to have comments made about their bodies.

Yea, that's life
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Old 30-03-2007, 15:57
bltonrye
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I think you have to be quite 'hard nosed' in business whether you are male or female and remember that your staff are staff not friends.
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Old 30-03-2007, 16:09
Dan Sette
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Originally Posted by Jamie181
There's a complete double standard though.

A strong business-woman is labelled as a bitch, but a strong man is assertive.
I disagree. To get to the top in a big plc requires the same determination to get to the top in an SME.

That determination can be read as hard nosed, harsh, evil, unsympathetic, focussed call it what you will.

In a woman, those who are not as lucky/ envious will call her a bitch.

In a man he will be called a bastard.

There is no double standard there. And comments about bodies affect both sexes

(and i've been called most variants on these very forums)

Life is hard, then you drive home in a Bentley

PS, my less successful competitors have been known to ponder why I drive a Bentley. Apparently it is something to do with penis size.

Last edited by Dan Sette : 30-03-2007 at 16:11.
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Old 30-03-2007, 16:41
Alrightmate
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I think there is a misconception that to be succesful in business you have to treat people badly.

I'm sure you can be a good person and yet still have the determination and strength of character to succeed.

There's no rule that I know of that you have to be a bastard or a bitch, I think it's just a myth created by people who want to treat people badly and use the myth as an excuse to get away with it.
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Old 30-03-2007, 17:02
SWW (SWW)
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Originally Posted by Jamie181
There's a complete double standard though.

A strong business-woman is labelled as a bitch, but a strong man is assertive.

...was what I was going to write
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Old 30-03-2007, 17:11
Chisato Geeste
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There is also the problem that a "nice" business woman risks being labelled a flirt/sl*g in male dominated environments.
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Old 30-03-2007, 17:18
SapphicGrrl
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I was a manager once, and I soon decided I didn't like being the boss (you can be successful in business without having to be). I've been much happier since.

Besides, if you become a really good business woman, you might end up looking like that haggard old bag in Dragons Den - that's enough to frighten anyone off, lol!
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Old 30-03-2007, 17:54
Dollystanford
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I don't think you have to be a bitch but you have to be prepared to make unpopular decisions and have your gender used against you

and unfortunately, there are still women who use sex to get what they want in business and they give us all a bad name!
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Old 30-03-2007, 20:11
Jamie181
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Originally Posted by SWW (SWW)
...was what I was going to write
Well, better try and be a bit quicker next time then...
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Old 31-03-2007, 01:37
Makosi's pants
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Originally Posted by Bexi_Belle
I didn't word my question how I wanted to, but you replied perfectly!

I don't mean to imply all business ladies are bitches, but when I think about them I always think of someone like Gerry from tonight's show- pretty scary!
I think Gerry will be great value, but maybe I'm biased because I'm male. In my experience, women make better managers than men, (especially women who are nice and firm - and please don't read that the wrong way, lol) but when it comes down to business, if the woman is striking out on her own; then I think she has to be either super-smart and fairly ruthless or extremely ruthless and quite smart.

Smarts alone won't get you there and there is no way to do it without ruthlessness because men are simply more competitive than women. And before I get flamed, just let me try to explain why. On a fundamental level we all want sex. To get it, men have to compete against the most ruthless animal on earth; other men. And they also have to cope with the everyday possibility of rejection by women. On ther hand, women to attract men, women only have to compete against football. One's a cage fight, the other is a fight over the remote control. There's no contest really is there?
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Old 31-03-2007, 01:39
Makosi's pants
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Originally Posted by SapphicGrrl
I was a manager once, and I soon decided I didn't like being the boss (you can be successful in business without having to be). I've been much happier since.

Besides, if you become a really good business woman, you might end up looking like that haggard old bag in Dragons Den - that's enough to frighten anyone off, lol!
Your unecessary focus on looks says it all about why you'll never be a really good business woman. Personally, I'd follow Debra Meaden to the edge of the earth.
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Old 31-03-2007, 17:27
SapphicGrrl
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Originally Posted by Makosi's pants
Personally, I'd follow Debra Meaden to the edge of the earth.
What?!! Forget her looks, she's a really nasty arrogant person, and there's no need for that whoever you are. You must be some sort of a masochist, surely!
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Old 31-03-2007, 19:29
Makosi's pants
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Originally Posted by SapphicGrrl
What?!! Forget her looks, she's a really nasty arrogant person, and there's no need for that whoever you are. You must be some sort of a masochist, surely!
Let me put it this way; if Debra was Derrick would you still think she was nasty and arrogant or just firm and decisive?
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Old 31-03-2007, 19:49
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Originally Posted by Makosi's pants
I think Gerry will be great value, but maybe I'm biased because I'm male. In my experience, women make better managers than men, (especially women who are nice and firm - and please don't read that the wrong way, lol) but when it comes down to business, if the woman is striking out on her own; then I think she has to be either super-smart and fairly ruthless or extremely ruthless and quite smart.

Smarts alone won't get you there and there is no way to do it without ruthlessness because men are simply more competitive than women. And before I get flamed, just let me try to explain why. On a fundamental level we all want sex. To get it, men have to compete against the most ruthless animal on earth; other men. And they also have to cope with the everyday possibility of rejection by women. On ther hand, women to attract men, women only have to compete against football. One's a cage fight, the other is a fight over the remote control. There's no contest really is there?
So Makosi, after reading your posts I wonder who your favourites from Series 1 and 2 were?

Are you an Adele-man, Saira, Karen, Ruth, Michelle?

Who floated your boat?
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Old 31-03-2007, 20:07
Makosi's pants
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Originally Posted by Socha
So Makosi, after reading your posts I wonder who your favourites from Series 1 and 2 were?

Are you an Adele-man, Saira, Karen, Ruth, Michelle?

Who floated your boat?
Okay I'll bite. And let's get it straight, we're talking about floating my business boat, yeah?

Series 1

I could not stand Saira. Admired her sensational sales qualities, but if her personality was a product she wouldn't be able to give it away. Couldn't work with her, or for her.

My favourite in Series 1 was Miriam. Calm, confident and competent. Would have made a great apprentice.

Series 2

In Series 2 I liked Karen she reminded me of Miriam except she did seem slightly arrogant which I think SAS picked up on. Could easily work with her, not sure if I could work for her.

And of course, I liked the Badger. Couldn't work with her, but could easily work for her as a boss.

What about you Socha? Do you ever hum the pussycat girl's song and change the lyrics to "So'cha wish your girlfriend was hot like me..."
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Old 31-03-2007, 20:29
Socha
 
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Originally Posted by Makosi's pants
Okay I'll bite. And let's get it straight, we're talking about floating my business boat, yeah?

Series 1

I could not stand Saira. Admired her sensational sales qualities, but if her personality was a product she wouldn't be able to give it away. Couldn't work with her, or for her.

My favourite in Series 1 was Miriam. Calm, confident and competent. Would have made a great apprentice.

Series 2

In Series 2 I liked Karen she reminded me of Miriam except she did seem slightly arrogant which I think SAS picked up on. Could easily work with her, not sure if I could work for her.

And of course, I liked the Badger. Couldn't work with her, but could easily work for her as a boss.

What about you Socha? Do you ever hum the pussycat girl's song and change the lyrics to "So'cha wish your girlfriend was hot like me..."
I'm a female, so I might have a different perspective, but we seem to agree mostly.

My favourite women from series 1 and 2 were also Miriam and Karen.

I think Miriam was really good; Karen was competent but in my opinion a little too selfconscious and overconfident. She did play the sex-card a little too much to my liking and without it being necessary.

Could have worked for both of them.

I enjoyed watching Adele, Saira, Ruth etc, but could never have worked for them. We would have clashed immediately.

The one I truly disliked was vague Sharon doing nothing, just being vague and telling everyone how immensely crreeeeaaaaative she was. ARRRGH..........

I'm not sure if Saira had realy selling capabilities or that she would just not give up.

Ruth I admired for her sales tactics. She would just talk people into buying as if she was Derren Brown.
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Old 31-03-2007, 20:51
Makosi's pants
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Originally Posted by Socha
Karen was competent but in my opinion a little too selfconscious and overconfident. She did play the sex-card a little too much to my liking and without it being necessary.
Is it ever necessary, lol, but I think I know what you mean.

Originally Posted by Socha
Ruth I admired for her sales tactics. She would just talk people into buying as if she was Derren Brown.
Ha ha.

Got to go now but hopefully I'll see you around on the boards Socha (and I went on that Internet forum with Andy as well. I didn't post but I can see what you mean about having to be more diplomatic than you might like. Nobody really asked Andy any hard questions about himself, like why he felt it so necessary to rush to hold the doors open for the women, even when they get to them first!)
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Old 31-03-2007, 23:48
Zelebs
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you have to be hard and intelligent.

If you are hard because you think you have to be hard you will be exposed.
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