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Do You Have To Be A "Bitch" To Be A Good Business Woman?


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Old 31-03-2007, 23:53
Marmite Baby
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Originally Posted by Makosi's pants
Your unecessary focus on looks says it all about why you'll never be a really good business woman. Personally, I'd follow Debra Meaden to the edge of the earth.
Blimey, have you gone back to a time before Galileo?
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Old 01-04-2007, 00:22
susie-4964
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Anyone care to speculate why Sir Alan chose Michelle last year over The Badger (whom I personally thought was great, but I'm Northern as well!)? Did his gonads get the better of him, or was Michelle genuinely better than Ruth?
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Old 01-04-2007, 00:27
Zelebs
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Michellle was the (****) candidate with the human story. Both his advisor's told him to avoid with the largest barge pole he could find, all his final interview interviewers said "**** no" but he said, "I vever make mistakes" .. I said she will last 6 months at most.
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Old 01-04-2007, 15:27
d'@ve
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Originally Posted by Zelebs
Michellle was the (****) candidate with the human story. Both his advisor's told him to avoid with the largest barge pole he could find, all his final interview interviewers said "**** no" but he said, "I vever make mistakes" .. I said she will last 6 months at most.
Don't forget that the series is about good TV and a compelling and newsworthy final show - more so than picking the actual best candidate. As long as these criteria are met, Sir Alan probably and the BBC certainly don't care two hoots who wins.

Michelle made the more "interesting and newsworthy" winner.

The current series will be done similarly.
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Old 01-04-2007, 17:54
Jamie181
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No, my bet is that SAS has learned his lesson with the whole Michelle debarcle and this year we'll see the most deserving person win the job.
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Old 01-04-2007, 19:43
brangdon
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Originally Posted by susie4964
Anyone care to speculate why Sir Alan chose Michelle last year over The Badger (whom I personally thought was great, but I'm Northern as well!)? Did his gonads get the better of him, or was Michelle genuinely better than Ruth?
Michelle was better than Ruth. Michelle was a lot better than she usually gets credit for. I think her good looks counted against her rather than for her. And her sob-story is something which was much more important to the media and the shows producers than to Sir Alan.

Ruth was also strong. However, her main strength was just sales, and she made some big mistakes when she was PM on the advert task.
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Old 04-04-2007, 22:10
alovera
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Michelle was much better then Ruth. She has had a rough ride in the media. A lot of it unjustified but seems to stem from the mistake she made of getting involved with Sayed.

Lest we forget, she was the youngest candidate and by far the most successful before the show. Once she saw what Big Al' really had to offer, she walked out of the door... i dont blame her.

Also, lets not forget that Big Al' chose Michelle over Ruth after working with them both for 6 months. Michelle obviously delivered or she would not have been hired.
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Old 04-04-2007, 22:20
pammi_i
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As I am sure I said on this thread before, but it seems to have been deleted any woman who is successful is considered to be a bitch and so therefore if a woman wins this she will be considered to be a bitch. She could be the nicest, fairest woman in the universe but if she is successful at this she wil be perceived to be a "bitch". It won't matter what she's actually like at all.
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Old 04-04-2007, 22:26
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Simple answer is no.

Neither do men have to be the equivalent.

Work hard, get on with people, know your business and your market and you'll go far.
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Old 05-04-2007, 00:14
SapphicGrrl
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Originally Posted by Makosi's pants
Let me put it this way; if Debra was Derrick would you still think she was nasty and arrogant or just firm and decisive?
Erm....still nasty and arrogant, sorry!! (There's a kind of cold cruelty about her that I would avoid like the plague, whatever the gender! )
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Old 05-04-2007, 08:47
The Prumeister
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No, you do not have to be a bitch - but you need resilience, determination, assertion and self awareness.
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Old 05-04-2007, 15:36
oulandy
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Originally Posted by susie4964
Anyone care to speculate why Sir Alan chose Michelle last year over The Badger (whom I personally thought was great, but I'm Northern as well!)? Did his gonads get the better of him, or was Michelle genuinely better than Ruth?
Yes, Ruth was outstanding. Sugar is a dinosaur in his attitude to able, strong women, hence he was never going to pick her, despite her ability. The fat bloke interviewer who advises him has a positively Neanderthal antipathy to strong women which comprehensively attacks and destroys the chances of the ablest women such as Saira and Ruth. I suspect he might have felt that Michelle seemed less threatening to the ego than Ruth and thus would be a safer bet if a woman was to win. Then there is always a sentimental and social reason that seems to weigh unduly with this programme - remember Sugar's final interview with Michelle about her background and working hard all her life ('Sob, sob'), and the year before that with the eventual winner as well - East End immigrant, like me, etc -'Sob, sob')
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Old 06-04-2007, 13:55
SapphicGrrl
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Originally Posted by oulandy
Yes, Ruth was outstanding. Sugar is a dinosaur in his attitude to able, strong women, hence he was never going to pick her, despite her ability. The fat bloke interviewer who advises him has a positively Neanderthal antipathy to strong women which comprehensively attacks and destroys the chances of the ablest women such as Saira and Ruth. I suspect he might have felt that Michelle seemed less threatening to the ego than Ruth and thus would be a safer bet if a woman was to win. Then there is always a sentimental and social reason that seems to weigh unduly with this programme - remember Sugar's final interview with Michelle about her background and working hard all her life ('Sob, sob'), and the year before that with the eventual winner as well - East End immigrant, like me, etc -'Sob, sob')
Hear, hear! Sir A pretends to appreciate businesswomen, but when it comes to it, he's in the dark ages (and so easily swayed by a sob story, as you've said). (I wonder what Margaret actually is? Executive or just 'PA' or similar - would be interesting to find out?!)
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Old 06-04-2007, 16:22
oulandy
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Originally Posted by SapphicGrrl
Hear, hear! Sir A pretends to appreciate businesswomen, but when it comes to it, he's in the dark ages (and so easily swayed by a sob story, as you've said). (I wonder what Margaret actually is? Executive or just 'PA' or similar - would be interesting to find out?!)
The truth is even more interesting when you find out that Margaret never actually worked for him as an employee - and neither did Nick, for that matter, although you get the impression that they did when he introduces them and says that they have been with him for 26 years.

Margaret was in fact a lawyer with a City firm and worked on deals for him in that capacity. I think she is retired now or semi-retired. Nick worked in a PR firm and is also retired.

So I would imagine most female employees in Sugar's firm being in the junior roles and as PAs, secretaries and the like. I have read that he has a senior woman in one of his business offshoots in somewhere like Hong Kong. Well that's one, but no mention of any in his business here.
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Old 06-04-2007, 19:29
KingCanute
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Originally Posted by Bexi_Belle
Wondered what you thought?

Can a "nice" woman be successful in this business?
For women to be successful in business, it requires them to be more of a "man" than the men that they work with.

I saw part of a repeat of one of the first series of Dragon's Den, with Rachel Elnaugh. In it she invested in the snowbone, a crappy bmx/snowboard thing. None of the other dragons were interested, and she caved in during the negotiation.

Look where she is now, and where the other dragons are. Rachel Elnaugh is too weak, and "nice".
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Old 06-04-2007, 22:34
gadders
 
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Originally Posted by KingCanute
For women to be successful in business, it requires them to be more of a "man" than the men that they work with.
Are you speaking from experience?

Because I totally disagree with you.
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Old 07-04-2007, 12:33
SapphicGrrl
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Originally Posted by oulandy
The truth is even more interesting when you find out that Margaret never actually worked for him as an employee - and neither did Nick, for that matter, although you get the impression that they did when he introduces them and says that they have been with him for 26 years.

Margaret was in fact a lawyer with a City firm and worked on deals for him in that capacity. I think she is retired now or semi-retired. Nick worked in a PR firm and is also retired.
Aha - interesting!! You would think they were his 'old retainers', wouldn't you?! He puts them over as if they too are ex-apprentices, who 'done good' under the wings of Sir A!!
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Old 08-04-2007, 13:00
KingCanute
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Originally Posted by gadders
Are you speaking from experience?

Because I totally disagree with you.
Yes, I am speaking from experience.

I used the Rachel Elnaugh things as an example that more people could relate to.

While I'm at it, how about Maggie Thatcher? She was hardly "nice" and womanly during her stint in politics.

What is it that you disagree with? A bit of healthy discussion is always a good thing gadders.

Last edited by KingCanute : 08-04-2007 at 13:02.
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