And RTD is Fab too 
RTD in the Metro
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Originally Posted by fightming:
“Critics are pseudo-intellectual hacks who use academic study and jaded cynicism to suck the lifeblood out of art. :yawn:
Artists are born, whether they're actors, writers, painters, musicians - and that's something that critics simply cannot cope with - because they just don't have the vision that artists have.
They're completely up their own backsides to a man - and woman. I haven't got a good word to say for them.
”
“Critics are pseudo-intellectual hacks who use academic study and jaded cynicism to suck the lifeblood out of art. :yawn:
Artists are born, whether they're actors, writers, painters, musicians - and that's something that critics simply cannot cope with - because they just don't have the vision that artists have.
They're completely up their own backsides to a man - and woman. I haven't got a good word to say for them.
”
really? i was one for 7 years and i know several VERY famous ones who are nothing like you say.
you seem to forget critics also praise..
and please lets stop using 'fab' - this is digitalspy, not G-A-Y.co.uk
The whole thing is here: http://www.metro.co.uk/fame/intervie...&in_page_id=11
He also explains why the new Cybermen are cr*p. Because he wanted the Daleks to beat them!
Last edited by The Slug : 29-03-2007 at 11:58
He also explains why the new Cybermen are cr*p. Because he wanted the Daleks to beat them!
Last edited by The Slug : 29-03-2007 at 11:58
Originally Posted by Nuallain:
“And, I mean, look at what he actually says: he conceeds that TW S1 wasn't as good as it could have been”
“And, I mean, look at what he actually says: he conceeds that TW S1 wasn't as good as it could have been”
No he doesn't.
Originally Posted by The Slug:
“He also explains why the new Cybermen are cr*p. Because he wanted the Daleks to beat them!”
“He also explains why the new Cybermen are cr*p. Because he wanted the Daleks to beat them!
”
He doesn't say that at all.. He says he prefers the daleks, and that's why he wrote the ep where the daleks kick their arses. Frankly, anyone who knows a bit about Dr Who would know the daleks would win in a fight. Although if I go any further into it, I fear I may 1) Start justifying the rather floppy episode 2) Turn into Comic Book Guy.
Originally Posted by The Slug:
“The whole thing is here: http://www.metro.co.uk/fame/intervie...&in_page_id=11
He also explains why the new Cybermen are cr*p. Because he wanted the Daleks to beat them!”
“The whole thing is here: http://www.metro.co.uk/fame/intervie...&in_page_id=11
He also explains why the new Cybermen are cr*p. Because he wanted the Daleks to beat them!
”
he justifies making them crap so the Daleks can beat them. whatever
idiot.
Last edited by Black Guardian : 29-03-2007 at 14:19
Originally Posted by Yoonix:
“No he doesn't.”
“No he doesn't.”
why do you think he says they want to make improvements to S2 then?
Originally Posted by PJ68:
“
and please lets stop using 'fab' - this is digitalspy, not G-A-Y.co.uk”
“
and please lets stop using 'fab' - this is digitalspy, not G-A-Y.co.uk”
Right! Handbags at dawn!
Originally Posted by fightming:
“Right! Handbags at dawn!”
“Right! Handbags at dawn!”
hehe
im not listening to critics of this thread
Originally Posted by PJ68:
“why do you think he says they want to make improvements to S2 then?”
“why do you think he says they want to make improvements to S2 then?”
Because that's a natural thing to do. You always want to make the next series better.
Originally Posted by PJ68:
“from todays metro:
Torchwood had a mixed reception…
What do you mean, a mixed reception?
Some people hated it.
You mean among online, moaning old minnies? We got the highest digital figures the BBC ever got so, frankly, we were laughing. We’re working on ways the second series can be improved, none of which has anything to do with online forums.”
“from todays metro:
Torchwood had a mixed reception…
What do you mean, a mixed reception?
Some people hated it.
You mean among online, moaning old minnies? We got the highest digital figures the BBC ever got so, frankly, we were laughing. We’re working on ways the second series can be improved, none of which has anything to do with online forums.”
He really seems to have a problem with viewers who use the internet.
He was like this, attacking internet users, in response to criticism of one or two Doctor Who episodes such as 'Love and Monsters'.
Are people who use the internet completely different to people who don't?
In my opinion they are just TV viewers like anybody else and it makes no difference if they're online or they aren't. They like some things and will offer praise, or they're not so keen on other things and will offer more critical opinions.
What about the vast number of loyal online Doctor Who fans who have kept the memory of Doctor Who alive for many years since it was relaunched? Is their opinion valid?
What happened to the sentiment expressed by RTD just before Doctor Who was relaunched when he said that he 'likes' criticism because too much praise can be a bad thing?
Now they sound like very hollow words indeed.
RTD is an excellent publicist and self-promoter, but it appears that he is prepared to use blatant lies and bullshit to do this.
Is he 'Bashing' Doctor Who viewers?
That would be so wrong wouldn't it?
Last edited by Alrightmate : 29-03-2007 at 15:29
Originally Posted by Alrightmate:
“He really seems to have a problem with viewers who use the internet.
He was like this, attacking internet users, in response to criticism of one or two Doctor Who episodes such as 'Love and Monsters'.
Are people who use the internet completely different to people who don't?”
“He really seems to have a problem with viewers who use the internet.
He was like this, attacking internet users, in response to criticism of one or two Doctor Who episodes such as 'Love and Monsters'.
Are people who use the internet completely different to people who don't?”
Isn't it strange how different people can read a quote different ways.
He doesn't have a problem with viewers who use the internet. He doesn't agree with those that have a preconceived idea of what Torchwood and Dr Who should be like. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but with those that comment on forums like this, let's call it a hardcore (generous) 1000 posters. There are 7 million other viewers out there, so RTD is right not to solely pay attention to online forum members.
Read his online comment about Ipswich, I think that sums up how he views online forums.
Originally Posted by Alrightmate:
“What about the vast number of loyal online Doctor Who fans who have kept the memory of Doctor Who alive for many years since it was relaunched? Is their opinion valid?”
“What about the vast number of loyal online Doctor Who fans who have kept the memory of Doctor Who alive for many years since it was relaunched? Is their opinion valid?”
Yes - it is. However - since we account for about 0.25% of the total Doctor Who audience (at best) our views don't and shouldn't register with any greater force than is proportional (i.e. hardly at all). The sheer staggering bloody arrogance of some in fandom who feel they have ownership of something they are only a tiny part of - well that is considerably more difficult to take than RTD at his most confident.
Originally Posted by Dr Thete:
“Yes - it is. However - since we account for about 0.25% of the total Doctor Who audience (at best) our views don't and shouldn't register with any greater force than is proportional (i.e. hardly at all). The sheer staggering bloody arrogance of some in fandom who feel they have ownership of something they are only a tiny part of - well that is considerably more difficult to take than RTD at his most confident.”
“Yes - it is. However - since we account for about 0.25% of the total Doctor Who audience (at best) our views don't and shouldn't register with any greater force than is proportional (i.e. hardly at all). The sheer staggering bloody arrogance of some in fandom who feel they have ownership of something they are only a tiny part of - well that is considerably more difficult to take than RTD at his most confident.”
And he has every right to be confident. He brought us the sublime Queer As Folk, saved Dr. Who for the nation and gave us the gift of Torchwood - possibly the best adult oriented sci-fi series ever. The man is groovy
Originally Posted by fightming:
“And he has every right to be confident. He brought us the sublime Queer As Folk, saved Dr. Who for the nation and gave us the gift of Torchwood - possibly the best adult oriented sci-fi series ever. The man is groovy”
“And he has every right to be confident. He brought us the sublime Queer As Folk, saved Dr. Who for the nation and gave us the gift of Torchwood - possibly the best adult oriented sci-fi series ever. The man is groovy
”
Absolutely. I was making an oblique reference to the way that some insist on mistaking his confidence for arrogance. Apparently he's supposed to beat his breast and say 'I'm crap and got it all wrong' for making one of the most successful, popular and critically acclaimed series currently on TV.
Originally Posted by Nuallain:
“And, I mean, look at what he actually says: he conceeds that TW S1 wasn't as good as it could have been, says S2 will be better but says that the changes they're making for S2 are based on their own observations of what went wrong - not because the fans didn't like it.
Which all seems perfectly reasonable to me.”
“And, I mean, look at what he actually says: he conceeds that TW S1 wasn't as good as it could have been, says S2 will be better but says that the changes they're making for S2 are based on their own observations of what went wrong - not because the fans didn't like it.
Which all seems perfectly reasonable to me.”
The guy is dismissive of anyone who says anything negative about his work, the source of that criticism is irrelevent. He seems to have developed a George Lucas complex so I expect he'll continue ignoring people unless they praise him. I bet that when the ratings drop he'll be blaming the audience for "not being clever enough to appreciate his brilliance"
Quote:
“Because that's a natural thing to do. You always want to make the next series better.”
“Because that's a natural thing to do. You always want to make the next series better.”
Compare it to his comments on DW, though. When asked about 'raising his game' etc. from S1 to S2 and from S2 and S3 he (and Producer Phil Collinson) are always firm in their 'no'. There are things that improve naturally because they're more practiced and experienced but their intention from season to season has always been 'more of the same' - no changes made in an attempt to improve the show or format.
For Davies to say, then, that they're making changes to Torchwood to make it better in S2 really is a concession that S1 wasn't as good as he'd have liked.
Originally Posted by Salford_Who:
“Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but with those that comment on forums like this, let's call it a hardcore (generous) 1000 posters. There are 7 million other viewers out there, so RTD is right not to solely pay attention to online forum members.”
“Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but with those that comment on forums like this, let's call it a hardcore (generous) 1000 posters. There are 7 million other viewers out there, so RTD is right not to solely pay attention to online forum members.”
Depends on how you view the forums. If you get the majority of forum posters (across various different forums) posting their dislike of an episode then I'd think that would be representative of the wider audience, especially on a forum such as this one which has a pretty wide demographic. Would it be exact? Doubtful. But it would be blinkered to suggest that everyone who doesn't post on a forum loves the show. We've had this debate before though.
I really hope RTD isn't as arrogant as he comes across and has actually done a bit of market research into people's opinion of the show.
Originally Posted by Rooks:
“Depends on how you view the forums. If you get the majority of forum posters (across various different forums) posting their dislike of an episode then I'd think that would be representative of the wider audience, especially on a forum such as this one which has a pretty wide demographic. Would it be exact? Doubtful. But it would be blinkered to suggest that everyone who doesn't post on a forum loves the show. We've had this debate before though. I really hope RTD isn't as arrogant as he comes across and has actually done a bit of market research into people's opinion of the show.”
“Depends on how you view the forums. If you get the majority of forum posters (across various different forums) posting their dislike of an episode then I'd think that would be representative of the wider audience, especially on a forum such as this one which has a pretty wide demographic. Would it be exact? Doubtful. But it would be blinkered to suggest that everyone who doesn't post on a forum loves the show. We've had this debate before though.
I really hope RTD isn't as arrogant as he comes across and has actually done a bit of market research into people's opinion of the show.”
If RTD wants to have an idea of what the audience thinks - he has access to the demographically weighted 15,000 strong Pulse panel who regularly complete feedback surveys. More guaranteed to be representative than any online forum - and considerably more focused in the nature of their feedback too.
Originally Posted by The Slug:
“The whole thing is here: http://www.metro.co.uk/fame/intervie...&in_page_id=11
He also explains why the new Cybermen are cr*p. Because he wanted the Daleks to beat them!”
“The whole thing is here: http://www.metro.co.uk/fame/intervie...&in_page_id=11
He also explains why the new Cybermen are cr*p. Because he wanted the Daleks to beat them!
”
That's what I said in a post the other day.
I just recently got freeview and caught an episode of Doctor Who Confidential. One of the people being interviewed said something like the big battle at the end was to show that the Daleks were the best.
Also in an issue of the Radio Times last year RTD implied that he just wanted a robot army and that the Cybermen would do.
Originally Posted by Dr Thete:
“Absolutely. I was making an oblique reference to the way that some insist on mistaking his confidence for arrogance. Apparently he's supposed to beat his breast and say 'I'm crap and got it all wrong' for making one of the most successful, popular and critically acclaimed series currently on TV.”
“Absolutely. I was making an oblique reference to the way that some insist on mistaking his confidence for arrogance. Apparently he's supposed to beat his breast and say 'I'm crap and got it all wrong' for making one of the most successful, popular and critically acclaimed series currently on TV.
”
really? I've never heard Torchwood described as that!
Originally Posted by Dr Thete:
“If RTD wants to have an idea of what the audience thinks - he has access to the demographically weighted 15,000 strong Pulse panel who regularly complete feedback surveys. More guaranteed to be representative than any online forum - and considerably more focused in the nature of their feedback too.”
“If RTD wants to have an idea of what the audience thinks - he has access to the demographically weighted 15,000 strong Pulse panel who regularly complete feedback surveys. More guaranteed to be representative than any online forum - and considerably more focused in the nature of their feedback too.”
Which is good and I hope he uses it. His comments in the media suggest he doesn't. I've never suggested that a forum should be considered "fact", I just think it can be used as a tool to get an idea of what people are thinking and whether further market research would be useful.
Calling forum posters names (as RTD has done) is not a great exercise in PR though
Originally Posted by Rooks:
“Which is good and I hope he uses it. His comments in the media suggest he doesn't. I've never suggested that a forum should be considered "fact", I just think it can be used as a tool to get an idea of what people are thinking and whether further market research would be useful.”
“Which is good and I hope he uses it. His comments in the media suggest he doesn't. I've never suggested that a forum should be considered "fact", I just think it can be used as a tool to get an idea of what people are thinking and whether further market research would be useful.”
He doesn't avail himself of it. That would be needlessly limiting when he is always going to be focussed on producing the best show he can and one that continues to be popular and get high appreciation scores. IT owuld lead to second guessing - never a smart idea.
He does listen to his colleagues and bosses though. Moffatt gave him advice on a script, Jane Tranter advised him to change course on how he was going to approach series three etc. If there was something major that he needed to know from audience feedback - you can be sure that someone would tell him.
Quote:
“Calling forum posters names (as RTD has done) is not a great exercise in PR though”
“Calling forum posters names (as RTD has done) is not a great exercise in PR though
”
He doesn't though. He talks about 'moaning minnies' on online forums. In otherwords - a segment of forum users who seem to do nothing but moan. Mainly he simply says he doesn't pay much attention to the forums at all - as that way lies madness.
Originally Posted by Dr Thete:
“Yes - it is. However - since we account for about 0.25% of the total Doctor Who audience (at best) our views don't and shouldn't register with any greater force than is proportional (i.e. hardly at all). The sheer staggering bloody arrogance of some in fandom who feel they have ownership of something they are only a tiny part of - well that is considerably more difficult to take than RTD at his most confident.”
“Yes - it is. However - since we account for about 0.25% of the total Doctor Who audience (at best) our views don't and shouldn't register with any greater force than is proportional (i.e. hardly at all). The sheer staggering bloody arrogance of some in fandom who feel they have ownership of something they are only a tiny part of - well that is considerably more difficult to take than RTD at his most confident.”
I don't know how you work that out.
0.25% of regular Doctor Who viewers read online forums?
Where did you get that statistic from?
Why are you talking as if anybody who does read online forums and watches Doctor Who are part of fandom?
I'm certainly not and I would have thought that many who read the DW threads aren't either.
Digital Spy isn't a fan forum, it IS the general public.
Amongst users reading the cult threads you will get a mix of fans of a show and a lot of people who may just watch a show as general member of the public.
Last edited by Alrightmate : 29-03-2007 at 17:07
Originally Posted by Dr Thete:
“He doesn't avail himself of it. That would be needlessly limiting when he is always going to be focussed on producing the best show he can and one that continues to be popular and get high appreciation scores. IT owuld lead to second guessing - never a smart idea.”
“He doesn't avail himself of it. That would be needlessly limiting when he is always going to be focussed on producing the best show he can and one that continues to be popular and get high appreciation scores. IT owuld lead to second guessing - never a smart idea.”
Listening to the opinions of the audience is "needlessly limiting"? That strikes me as arrogant. Here's something to ponder though. The last episode of Doctor Who in 1989 got a 71% AI rating. That's pretty good right and only about 10% under the low 80s that the new series is getting. Yet that episode was the last before cancellation. "City of Death", widely regarded as a classic managed just 64% AI. 64% at the very peak of the series popularity. You'll forgive me if I'm sceptical when rubbish like "Aliens of London" gets 82% compared to 64% for the best the old series produced (and still the highest rated episode, regardless of the strike at the time). It doesn't strike me as an indicator of quality.
Originally Posted by Dr Thete:
“He doesn't though. He talks about 'moaning minnies' on online forums. In otherwords - a segment of forum users who seem to do nothing but moan. Mainly he simply says he doesn't pay much attention to the forums at all - as that way lies madness.”
“He doesn't though. He talks about 'moaning minnies' on online forums. In otherwords - a segment of forum users who seem to do nothing but moan. Mainly he simply says he doesn't pay much attention to the forums at all - as that way lies madness.”
He never said "some of the forum users are moaning minnies" though. He pointed the finger at everyone.
Last edited by Rooks : 29-03-2007 at 17:19
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