I am sure when RTD was watching as fan he used to have a bloody good moan about the series himself but of course now he is in charge he is beyond such criticism.

That's how I see it.

If he receives praise he'll lap it up.
If he receives criticism for an episode of one of his shows it's as though that opinion couldn't possibly have any validity and so therefore must just be limited to people who use online forums.

Hey I know people who think Doctor Who is complete and utter sh*t and they don't use internet forums to post about it.

I'm making a guess that around 20,000 people are on forums talking about Doctor Who (based on looking at the major forums). That would be about 0.25% of the viewing audience. I don't expect my figures to be treated as gospel - just enough to put us all in context - fans or casual viewers as we may be.

I have to take issue with your assertion that Digital Spy IS the general public - at least in this context. This is a self selecting community with a strong fannish bias in each of its areas of discussion (I've followed threads on here for a long time - and no way is the ratio anything like proportionate to the audience in general).

The Pulse panel at least has the advantage of being focussed and carefully selected to be representative.

that is your take on it in the same way others have their own. doesn't automatically make you right or the other side wrong...and vice versa of course.

everyone can read what they want into his comments..at the end of the day only RTD knows exactly what he means..but speaking as someone who works in the industry I would hire myself a decent publicist so misunderstandings of this nature don't occur.

going by the tone of the interview RTD has not done himself any favours but that is my take on it.
Last edited by Black Guardian : 29-03-2007 at 17:26

Ha can't have it both ways though. The Internet has been part of DW for the last two seasons - who is going to see this side of the show and the website tie-ins, downloads, clips, if it isn't Internet Users? It's Internet Users that create the buzz for the show (eg. "Bad Wolf"). It's Internet Users that promote the show (DVD recommendations, praise, speculation, heads ups, what and when to catch a show, ideas, etc). Similarly with TW promotions.

Don't think Russell has a problem with viewers who use the Internet - it's encouraged - he just seems to have a problem with criticism. Any criticism. Knows it's there, but always chooses to attack, rather than listen or acknowledge. As someone said, it's almost the old hands on ears "lalala" approach. Very strange.

It's interesting to note that the BBC's "Points Of View" forum for TW panned the show beyond compare - I thought DS was harsh, but I'd never seen so many knives out and all in the one place since "Assault On Precinct 13" - presumably these opinions which viewers were actively encouraged to express, were also dismissed as "moaning Minnie Internet Users"?

Seems if Internet feedback is unfavourable or critical in any shape or form, it's instantly labelled "moaning Minnie Internet users" and ridiculed. Yet if it's favourable and generally praising, then he'll quite happily accept it and even join in, as he did with the "QAF" webchat. An over-inflated arrogant ego or perhaps just a bit of sour grapes and a genuine fear of being levelled by nerdy Internet sci-fi fans?

It strikes me a sensible. Consider, for example, those TV series that were critically panned and had tiny audiences at first - and later came to be regarded as great. If the makers ahd been listening to the criticisms - just what damage might that have done?

You know what happens when TV series makers start second guessing themselves based on feedback? Star Trek Enterprise happens...!


I'm afraid you are seeing that meaning in his words because you want to (and let's not have any 'but others see it the same way' - 'cos others sharing your interpretation happens to be exactly those who have a habit of assuming the worst of RTD). There is no way the natural meaning of his words can be taken that way. That he qualified who he was talking about *beyond* saying 'internet forums' leads to the simple conclusion that he isn't talking about everyone.

Or do you think he's also talking about Rob Shearman, Steven Moffat, Paul Cornell, Tom MacRae, Matt Jones and any of the other dozen or so people involved with the new series who are regular forum posters? Or do you think he believes the fans he fondly addressed each month in his DWM column aren't forum users?

'Levelled by nerdy Internet sci-fi fans'? ROTFL...!

Oh thats' going to haunt me that is. That someone could actually say that and be *serious*....!

So if Doctor Who has a regular audience of around 6.5 to 7.5 million viewers who tune in every week...they're just the general public and not 'fans'?

I see talk of 'fans' as being something seperate from the general public. RTD does a good job of seperating them when it's convenient for either promoting his shows or undermining criticism.

Fans of TV shows are part of the general public. If Doctor Who gets 6.5 to 7.5 million viewers tuning in every week then why are they the general public and not fans?

I think that the problem with RTD is that he is pigeonholing and stereotyping people in order to support his point of view. Somehow it's got distrorted that the people who are fans of his show aren't fans, but are the general public. But the people who maybe have criticisms of an episode (or the series in general) aren't the general public, but are fans.
The way that RTD appears to be making distinctions of people types here comes across to me as complete nonsense.

If somebody has a criticism of something RTD has written then they are still a member of the general public and may not necessarily be fan, online or otherwise.

If I like a Doctor Who story then apparently that makes me a member of the general public.
But if I have any criticism of a story then I suddenly become an online fan.

That's just a completely insane way of looking at people.

He hasn't done himself any favours with the tiny minority of people who obsess on his words and interpret everything he says and does in the worst possible light...? Goodness - I doubt he can sleep at night...!

in your opinion of course and why should your opinion count more than anyone else's..unless you are like RTD and only listen to positive comments rather than constructive criticism.

you normally flee when your opinions are challenged......

Now now - the weekly average is 8.4 million unique viewers. Let's not understate RTDs massive success...!


It's also not something that RTD has ever suggested he does - but hey, why let that stop you...!

Of all the forums the, what, 6 or 7 regular members of the 'RTD's an arrogant tosser' circle jerk on Digital Spy provides by far the most comical entertainment. Every time RTD is interviewed I just have to come here to see what twists have been placed on his words this time (not to mention the fantastic invention) - I'm seldom disappointed...!

as you never fail to disappoint with your blind devotion. perhaps you need some stronger rose tinted glasses.

Eh? I'm not aware of ever having fled...! At most I find a thread is going round in circles, that there isn't anything more to say, and so I stop posting. I'm very entertained by the notion that a few anonymous strangers on a forum are something to be frightened of...!

And yes - shockingly enough I have been offering my opinion. I'm a little surprised that you feel this needs pointing out. Do you regularly offer other people's opinions then?

Of course I am supported by the fact I'm speaking common sense. C'mon - admit it. RTD could say he loves every one of us like a borther and there would be the same group here putting a negative spin on it...!

Excellent - an accusation of 'blind devotion' because someone has dared suggest that RTD isn't Satan incarnate...! I have to say BG - you *never* disappoint...!

if that is the best you can muster try again.........

you might convince yourself.......

really.......when did i say RTD was satan......should never put things in someone's mouth...it might go off

You sound very much to me like an online 'fan'.
And not so much like a general member of the public.

It always sounds more like 'fans' to me when they resort to mocking and insults with lots of 'LOLs', 'ROFLMAOs', and ': smileys.

What tends to happen on DS is that when your opinion is being attacked by a vociferous defender of something the attacker will exagerrate your own point of view to make out that you hold a much more extreme view than you actually do.

A criticism of RTD often turns into you wanting him sacked or hanged after a bit of gross distortion of your actual opinion.
It's necessary that you are to look like an obsessive fan with extreme opinions.
Last edited by Alrightmate : 29-03-2007 at 18:02

something which Mr Thete is ver adept at. twists what the other FM is saying to try and support their own view and illicit support from others...look what these horrible people are saying to me...and then b*****s off when it all gets a bit too close for comfort.

Sorry? Did you say something? I was busy fastening the laces on my running shoes...!

Yes of course. I realise now that what I should be doing is twisting everything that RTD says instead...!

Oh and don't worry BG - I've long since come to realise that I'm never going to get anywhere trying to get common sense from the 'RTD is an arrogant tosser' circle jerk here. I assure you - I'm here purely for the comedy value. You don't think I hang around you six or seven with your endlessly inventive recylcing of the same old canards fo the sake of intellectual stimulation - do you?

Indeed. However when the producers of that show started to listen to the audience it improved no end. It was too late by then as they'd alienated much of the fanbase.


I'm reading his exact words, I'm not trying to second-guess the guy. You like facts, we've established that from numerous other threads yet here you are ignoring what the guy said and instead are trying to interpret his "meaning". He categorised forum posters as "moaning minnies", not the odd one or two but all posters. People have moaned at me for not having any respect for RTD but why should I when he has no respect for the people here?


Perhaps he chose to ignore the last few SFX issues where readers have been slating Torchwood

I'm still curious though why so much faith is put into AI's when "Aliens of London" or even "Fear Her" scored significantly higher AI than "City of Death". Is it truely possible that they are considered better? If that's the world we live in then it worries me

I had a chat to a friend at work today about Doctor Who (he'd heard the new series advert on the radio). He was bad-mouthing the show a fair bit and I didn't stop him. I didn't defend the series, I didn't offer explanation. Had this conversation happened in 2004 I would have been defending the show to the hilt. Even during the first part of the 2005 series I was religiously getting up on a sunday to check the overnights. I really was that much of a fan. So I can appreciate how people who do like the show feel because I used to be there too and it's not nice to hear the show criticised. I still struggle to believe that I'm no longer a "Doctor Who fan". I never thought the day would arrive

That's okay by me - I was laughing my arse off typing it.

Strangely enough, I'd love to see Russell do an open DW/TW webchat. How do you think it'd go if he did? Blow his top at the first criticism? At the second? Spit his dummy and go home by the third?

That's true, but to be fair it works both ways. It's not a crime to enjoy every episode - even RTD's - but when somebody does they are also mocked for their "blind devotion" (sorry BG), and so the cycle continues.

I try to stay balanced but I will admit to having slightly anti-RTD leanings, which will be exaggerated when I hear certain nonsense coming out of his mouth. A lot of what he says will be perfectly fair, and some comments may well be misinterpreted and attacked unjustly as a result - although as a professional writer I would expect him to be quite careful with his words.

And I think Dr Thete has valid opinions and has defended them well, which makes it a little sad that what should be engaging debate so often descends into petty insults.

All those involved should hang their heads in shame!

And I'm quite sure it's a pure coincidence that Dr Thete is an anagram of