o dear! was that it? must try harder but i guess you might be used to hearing that on your school reports.

sorry but I am not going to hang my head in shame. I have said in my other posts that they do have valid opinions but they should also be open to others and I have seen little evidence to suggest that they are.

having encountered this individual in the forums before and tried to engage in debate in them, they pull the same tired old tricks they always do which is cut and run when the going gets tough or if someone challenges their point of view which they assume is right and everyone else is wrong. I don't have to justify my position as to whether I like the scripts of RTD as I have done so, many times and not just for the sake of slagging them off.

we all can't sing from the RTD songbook I'm afraid and I think that any programme, good and bad is open to fair and constructive criticism.

I would rather hang around with the six or seven on here who do add something to the debate than engage in a less than stimulating one..when you do bring something intellectual to the table do let me know.

Are you saying that he is blameless in the above bickering? Didn't look like that to me I'm afraid.

Hey, at least it's 6 or 7 now. In the last debate it was 5 or 6. Our numbers are growing <cue evil-Master-like laugh>

No one is blameless - including myself now that I've gone and stuck my nose/foot in it.

you haven't. I am not going to apologise for defending myself or my position but I agree it could have been better handled. as predicted though as soon as it all kicks off they do a runner.

I think someone coined the term "Torchwood Six" last year... and they're still here and still six.

Once I discovered this referred to a group discussing honestly and openly the fact TW should've been much much better than it turned out, and didn't refer to the average IQ required to enjoy the show, I wholeheartedly offered my support. After all, it is in a good cause.

Ah, so that would make you part of the "RTD one" then?

Oh my god RTD really does open a can of worms. I am not a RTD fan and did not really enjoy Torchwood as I wanted to. However his interview in the Metro today had a strange effect on me. Complete disinterest. I really don't care what he says. I only really care about the programme. Good stories I will praise and ones I have not enjoyed I will examin. It has happened that the one I have not enjoyed so much have been some of RTDs. However I enjoyed The Christmas Invasion and if it weren't for the bad scripting for Rose and the Doctor would have been praising Tooth and Claw. I want him to produce a piece of work for Doctor Who that I can praise, nothing would make me happier. I want to enjoy Torchwood. I still hope these things come to pass. If his interview is as described then it makes me a little sad. I would like to be able to say how wonderful he is because of what he has done not because I have been told he is wonderful. So far the only thing I can praise him for is helping bring back Doctor Who. Please Russell make us really proud..
Last edited by Tegan Jovanka : 29-03-2007 at 21:39

I know there's more than a "RTD one".
The problem is, as Dr Thete says, the "Torchwood six" or whatever you care to refer to (with one exception) are not prepared to allow differing opinions. I know of other forum members who used to post, but stopped because of these Torchwood six.

Apparently everyone thought Aliens Of London was rubbish - well, no - I liked it.

Which is also the same of the opposite side of the argument. If you say anything remotely negative then you get a torrent of abuse. I've always backed up my viewpoint but some people can't accept any criticism of the show. I really can't be bothered with the abuse anymore so I'll leave you to it.

Didn't you say something similar a few episodes into Torchwood?

I see it as the complete opposite. The "TW6", as you prefer, actively encourage differing opinions. The "RTD4" would be quite content if there were no differing opinions.

Sure "Aliens Of London" was great for the kids, but I can't help thinking they'll grow up and look back and think "I used to think that episode was brilliant"... not sure it's one to stand the test of... er... time.

But that's DW - two different shows in one - one for the little kids, one for the bigger kids. I put forward the notion they could make all episodes for the "bigger kids" without losing the "little kids", but they couldn't do it the other way round without losing viewers.

Have high hopes for S3, as the word "darker" has been used to descibe this outing... so I'm hoping they've gone the route of making all episodes for the "bigger kids". Seems to me the only way to increase ratings, so I'm hoping it's so.
Last edited by Yoonix : 29-03-2007 at 21:53

Mickey, come on... stop stirring...

You ever heard the phrase "people in glass houses..."? As didn't you say something similar yourself regarding "Primeval"?

I thought there was 7 of us!

Think you got demoted since you said you liked one of the episodes

who would they be then Salford?

I don't refer myself or any other FM as anything like that as I am not into labels.

Everyone has a right to air their views Salford but I don't think it is fair when if someone dares to criticise the great messiah RTD that they get torn to shreds and are not allowed to stand up for themselves or how they feel as it isn't toeing the party line. It doesn't make them disloyal or any less of a fan of Who than you or anyone else on here.

The whole idea of the forums is surely to get a cross section of views, good and bad. The majority of people who do criticise certain aspects of the series don't do it with malice or have some sort of personal agenda but there are a number of FM's who seem to take it personally if you do say something negative about Who and go on the attack either full on or in rather a sly and snide fashion.

There is room for all sides of the arguement on the forums..be a boring old world if we agreed on absolutely everything!

one of RTD's episodes do you mean Salford?

Not by me they're not.
If somebody likes something then the chances are I'll either post to agree with them or if I don't agree I'll let them get on with it.

I agree with you about RTD. It's just that if he keeps his mouth shut I can tolerate him, and often even not even have an opinion about him for months on end, but in instances such as this it's as though he's deliberately scorning certain people and coming across as an arrogant snob.
Just because somebody criticises Torchwood it's not really necessary to tell them that their opinions are worth sh*t.

He's probably being deliberately provovactive on purpose as he appears to like to put himself about a bit in the press.
Too much swagger for my liking. And I definitely think things have gotten to his head a bit.
He's not stupid though, he appears to know what he's doing in that he was very careful to not attack the media who had their criticisms of Torchwood....just the average Joe who has no real platform to answer back.

I had no problem with Dr. Theta's opinions at first. Initially I was just having a discussion with him in which we tended to disagree on several things. It's just that he suddenly out of the blue started mocking and goading people on here. In post #61 he suddenly produced a very hostile sarcastic tone towards me and I don't know where that came from.

It's not the first time he's done it to me either. I'm usually involved in a perfectly normal discussion and then he starts banging on about facts as though he has the definitive answer to everything and that anybody who disagrees with him is wrong.
Maybe he's sensitive to some things, I don't know, but I'd much prefer it if we could find some common ground now and again. But so far I've found it very difficult to acheive that with him so far.
I don't like it when people feel bad in a thread.
Last edited by Alrightmate : 29-03-2007 at 23:29

No, one of the Torchwood episodes (only joking).

I agree that forum members are entitled to their own views, but opinions are just that, you can't alway justify why you appreciate an episode, it is always easier to pick holes in the things you don't like (because they stick out like a sore thumb).
Last edited by Salford_Who : 29-03-2007 at 23:30

quite right too! if you appreciate something then you should have a platform to air that in the same way if someone did not enjoy a particular aspect of it then they should too..without being told they are stupid or they just didn't get it or are not intellectual enough to grasp the material or worse accused of homophobia and I am a gay man!

I agree totally but the intellectual argument is also used to beat down those appreciating certain episodes e.g. earlier someone said AoL was 'great for the kids' which ( perhaps unintentionally ) implies that only those of lower maturity and/or intelligence liked it.
I can understand criticism of intelligence if someone says they didn't understand an explanation as none of the science on DW is particularly complex ( and wasn't in the old show either ) but to use intelligence to attack someone for their tastes only shows the lack of intelligence in the attacker rather than the 'victim'
Last edited by Dangerman : 29-03-2007 at 23:50

(The Slug's head suddenly drops down to hang in shame)

No you haven't. You just assessed a situation a certain way that could 'potentially' mean you'd put your foot in it if things escalated. But there's no need for it to.

Dr. Theta had a dig at certain people referring to them as a tiny group of obsessives similar to what RTD did by stereotyping them. Not a good thing to do to people by putting them into a group of 7 or 8 individuals. That just wasn't a very nice thing to do. Then he started on me in the next post.
I made a response to that, in hindsight maybe I should have bit my lip, I don't know, but I don't really have anything else to say about it.

We can quite easily just get back onto the subject matter of the thread.
RTD did pigeonhole the people who criticised Torchwood into a particular group of people who use the internet. No spin or distortion from me there.
And he's done it before during the last series of Doctor Who after certain episodes were aired.

But he picks and chooses, because when praise comes his way it apparently comes from everybody.
According to RTD everybody loved Mickey and Jackiey and they loved the Slitheen.
Being that internet forums are the only real main way to see what people in general are talking about, it makes me wonder who these people are who according to RTD apparently love the Slitheen.
Who's RTD asking for their opinions? The runner who is sh*t scared of losing their job if they give the wrong answer?

He simply won't take on board criticism, ever. According to him he's the bees knees who knows what they're doing because they've been doing this for 20+ years.
And his contempt for the general public is even more evident when he blatantly admits that he has completely ignored people's opinions and refuses to even consider them when making improvements for the new series.
If he thinks Torchwood was perfect and blemish free then I can see himself running into severe problems somewhere down the line.

An ego isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I think it is once it gets out of control.
I can imagine him signing into the Priory the evening before next year's Baftas awards ceremony, with loads of TV people wishing him the best of luck with his recovery.