Last week's first episode was excellent. It was 10 times better than New Earth in Series 2. It was very star wars with The Judoon 
Doctor Who - Awful Season Opener
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Originally Posted by CAMERA OBSCURA:
“God bless Google
http://www.sfwa.org/news/2007/07hugoballot.htm
It says the voters belong to Nippon
http://www.nippon2007.us/members6.php
Though I'm still non the wiser.”
“God bless Google
http://www.sfwa.org/news/2007/07hugoballot.htm
It says the voters belong to Nippon
http://www.nippon2007.us/members6.php
Though I'm still non the wiser.”
thanks for posting the links but I am still unclear as to who they are.
Eccleston saying "Fantastic" might well be a wink at Doctor Who. It was his catchphrase after all and I guess writers of Heroes saw him playing the Doc. I know I would make him say it, but we cannot be sure for 100%, of course.
I am most probably misquoting him but didn't the good Doctor once say about the human race that "they were always looking for patterns that are not there"
I haven't bothered wading through all the comments on this forum as it gets so boring one person slagging RTD off and another defending him but the IRONY of a creative writing teacher saying he would hand his script back to him just takes the biscuit. THATS WHY YOU ARE A TEACHER! Those that can't etc etc. Certainly a touch of the old green eyed monster there.
Originally Posted by Black Guardian:
“I am most probably misquoting him but didn't the good Doctor once say about the human race that "they were always looking for patterns that are not there"”
“I am most probably misquoting him but didn't the good Doctor once say about the human race that "they were always looking for patterns that are not there"”
Like what RTD nicked from what scifi show for his latest DW episode?
That's what we are, we use our database of experiences in our head and try to match it with what we are experiencing now.
Originally Posted by diva queen:
“Last week's first episode was excellent. It was 10 times better than New Earth in Series 2. It was very star wars with The Judoon”
“Last week's first episode was excellent. It was 10 times better than New Earth in Series 2. It was very star wars with The Judoon
”
I enjoyed the Jundoon, would like to see them in the show more often.
Homage to Who on Heroes?
No, homage to the English. Eccleston is far more known for his roles in 28 Days Later and Gone in 60 Seconds in the States.
No, homage to the English. Eccleston is far more known for his roles in 28 Days Later and Gone in 60 Seconds in the States.
Originally Posted by IvanIV:
“Eccleston saying "Fantastic" might well be a wink at Doctor Who. It was his catchphrase after all”
“Eccleston saying "Fantastic" might well be a wink at Doctor Who. It was his catchphrase after all”
It was?
Originally Posted by Histeria:
“It was?”
“It was?
”
Well, he was saying it all the time, wasn't he? My impression anyway
Originally Posted by The Slug:
“I haven't seen the Eccleston trailer, and I'm only at UK pace with Heroes, but my guess would be this - the scene referred to in the trailer is not a Who homage, however when the trailer was being put together someone noticed the link and cut it that way to appeal to Who fans.”
“I haven't seen the Eccleston trailer, and I'm only at UK pace with Heroes, but my guess would be this - the scene referred to in the trailer is not a Who homage, however when the trailer was being put together someone noticed the link and cut it that way to appeal to Who fans.”
I would say you are right. I missed Heroes (every single time I tried to record the first two episodes, the recording failed so I have to wait for it to come around again) but it seems more likely that the trailer, which presumably was cut in the UK, was put together in a way to make fans of his through Who (pun unintentional) happy than for the Americans to put it in for that reason.
Originally Posted by Black Guardian:
“to be honest it got on my nerves after a while.”
“to be honest it got on my nerves after a while.”
I totally failed to spot that. I remember it being in his final speech (once), but otherwise, I didn't notice it at all. Although I do remember a lot of gurning.
Last edited by Histeria : 06-04-2007 at 11:26
Originally Posted by d2macreject:
“I'm far from a fanboy on the good Doctor, but surely the BBC must have realized by now that Russell T Davies can't write for toffee.
I teach Creative Writing and if he'd given me that script I'd have thrown it back at him and told him to re-think it completely.
Every decent new Doctor episode is written by someone else, but still he gets to write the 'legacy' episodes.
Perhaps someone should send him some episodes of 'Heroes' or the early Chris Carter written episodes of 'X Files' and 'Millennium' to see how it really should be done.”
“I'm far from a fanboy on the good Doctor, but surely the BBC must have realized by now that Russell T Davies can't write for toffee.
I teach Creative Writing and if he'd given me that script I'd have thrown it back at him and told him to re-think it completely.
Every decent new Doctor episode is written by someone else, but still he gets to write the 'legacy' episodes.
Perhaps someone should send him some episodes of 'Heroes' or the early Chris Carter written episodes of 'X Files' and 'Millennium' to see how it really should be done.”
His episodes seem fine to me, although unfortunately I don't teach Creative Writing.
RTD is a very clever guy -- read any interview with him, listen to his DVD commentaries. Basically check out anything he has said on the subject of TV drama over the years and you will see that he is a repository on common sense and good taste. There's one very good reason for his current success.
BTW -- he rewrites DW episodes, you know. He has completely rewritten episodes, uncredited. How can the RTD-haters therefore be absolutely sure he's the worst writer on the show?
Anyway, I suspect if Russ put Steven Moffat's name on one of his own scripts it'd get praised to the skies by his critics.
Last edited by Dene : 06-04-2007 at 12:04
Originally Posted by Dene:
“BTW -- he rewrites DW episodes, you know. He has completely rewritten episodes, uncredited. How can the RTD-haters therefore be absolutely sure he's the worst writer on the show?”
“BTW -- he rewrites DW episodes, you know. He has completely rewritten episodes, uncredited. How can the RTD-haters therefore be absolutely sure he's the worst writer on the show?”
I think it was an episode of Confidential, or maybe some interview, which said that the 'School Reunion' script was quite naff to begin with, so RTD had a hand in to improve it.
Originally Posted by JimRockford:
“He'd just laugh in your face because he's an internationally known award winning writer.”
“He'd just laugh in your face because he's an internationally known award winning writer.”
OO! That tells me... :yawn: He wouldn't laugh as much as I did at some of the rueful ideas he produced last season.. which is why I tell my students you don't need to have talent to be a successful writer, just know the right people or be in the right place.
I could name at least 20 internationally, well known writers who fit into this category.
Originally Posted by ace02:
“I haven't bothered wading through all the comments on this forum as it gets so boring one person slagging RTD off and another defending him but the IRONY of a creative writing teacher saying he would hand his script back to him just takes the biscuit. THATS WHY YOU ARE A TEACHER! Those that can't etc etc. Certainly a touch of the old green eyed monster there.”
“I haven't bothered wading through all the comments on this forum as it gets so boring one person slagging RTD off and another defending him but the IRONY of a creative writing teacher saying he would hand his script back to him just takes the biscuit. THATS WHY YOU ARE A TEACHER! Those that can't etc etc. Certainly a touch of the old green eyed monster there.”
Yeah, I'm real jealous.
Creative Writing is a sideline for me (I teach basic literacy a couple of days a week and work as paralegal three days a week (I'm qualified in teaching and law, so yeah I'm a pathetic under achiever who must put others down...)
Sorry mate, I call it as I see it and that episode was crap. If that upsets you, sorry. 90% of his episodes stink.
Personally, I wish they didn't. There are some real talented writers on the show, but it's frustrating that the standard of writing is so inconsistant.
If you want to flame me, feel free, I'll stand and fight my corner all day long. Bring it on.
Calmed down, now!
What gets me annoyed, is that I have precious little time to fit all my shows in at the weekend and wasting an hour on crap like that just gets my back up.
I like Doctor Who as a concept and watch it cause of the nostalgia and to support British sci-fi, of which there isn't nearly enough, but if all the shows I download weren't on mid season break I think I wouldn't even bother again this week.
This isn't a personal attack on RTD, it's an attack on his scripts. The writing just seems lazy. When you watch a show like 'Lost' or 'Desperate Houswives' it may not be 5/5 every week, but you feel there is at least some kind of editorial discipline going on.
Is it me, or does his scripts turn the Doctor more into a clown? I feel they are more childish and juvenile.
I will give credit for the Cybermen v Darleks fight in last season's finale. Shame about the last ten drawn out minutes of that episode, though.
What gets me annoyed, is that I have precious little time to fit all my shows in at the weekend and wasting an hour on crap like that just gets my back up.
I like Doctor Who as a concept and watch it cause of the nostalgia and to support British sci-fi, of which there isn't nearly enough, but if all the shows I download weren't on mid season break I think I wouldn't even bother again this week.
This isn't a personal attack on RTD, it's an attack on his scripts. The writing just seems lazy. When you watch a show like 'Lost' or 'Desperate Houswives' it may not be 5/5 every week, but you feel there is at least some kind of editorial discipline going on.
Is it me, or does his scripts turn the Doctor more into a clown? I feel they are more childish and juvenile.
I will give credit for the Cybermen v Darleks fight in last season's finale. Shame about the last ten drawn out minutes of that episode, though.
I dont give a ff what you do in your time. You don't need to be an underachiever to be jealous of other people as your legal experience surely must show you. I pity the students you are telling that nepotism is the only way to succeed - that's a great way to supress any talent and drive they may have. RTD started off as a runner and worked his way up the system, from being a Swansea lad from a non-writing background. It's hard work, enthusiasm and sheer graft that gets you ahead and a bit of luck too.
Originally Posted by d2macreject:
“Calmed down, now!
What gets me annoyed, is that I have precious little time to fit all my shows in at the weekend and wasting an hour on crap like that just gets my back up.
I like Doctor Who as a concept and watch it cause of the nostalgia and to support British sci-fi, of which there isn't nearly enough, but if all the shows I download weren't on mid season break I think I wouldn't even bother again this week.
This isn't a personal attack on RTD, it's an attack on his scripts. The writing just seems lazy. When you watch a show like 'Lost' or 'Desperate Houswives' it may not be 5/5 every week, but you feel there is at least some kind of editorial discipline going on.
Is it me, or does his scripts turn the Doctor more into a clown? I feel they are more childish and juvenile.
I will give credit for the Cybermen v Darleks fight in last season's finale. Shame about the last ten drawn out minutes of that episode, though.”
“Calmed down, now!
What gets me annoyed, is that I have precious little time to fit all my shows in at the weekend and wasting an hour on crap like that just gets my back up.
I like Doctor Who as a concept and watch it cause of the nostalgia and to support British sci-fi, of which there isn't nearly enough, but if all the shows I download weren't on mid season break I think I wouldn't even bother again this week.
This isn't a personal attack on RTD, it's an attack on his scripts. The writing just seems lazy. When you watch a show like 'Lost' or 'Desperate Houswives' it may not be 5/5 every week, but you feel there is at least some kind of editorial discipline going on.
Is it me, or does his scripts turn the Doctor more into a clown? I feel they are more childish and juvenile.
I will give credit for the Cybermen v Darleks fight in last season's finale. Shame about the last ten drawn out minutes of that episode, though.”
Now I know you're on tthe wind-up! For a moment there I almost thought you were being serious.
Last edited by DenWatts : 06-04-2007 at 13:45
Originally Posted by Dr Thete:
“If you haven't seen it - it isn't there? Do I understand you correctly?
And if I produce reams of evidence to show that you've missed a lot - that would be be using my 'itchy google-finger'?
Sorry - but your 'devouring' has missed the huge amount of praise for RTD by more critics than you can shake a stick at. It misses quotes from the BBC, C4, ITV and various independent producers who all want to work with him. It misses the high praise for RTD by other high flying writers -such as Matthew Graham, Paul Abbott, Steven Moffat. It misses the parade of highly respected awards that RTD has won - including:
BAFTA
Children's Award for Best Drama - 1996
Dennis Potter Award for Outstanding Writing for Television - 2006 (which puts him into the same company as Alan Plater, Paul Abbott, Stephen Poliakof and Lynda La Plante).
British Comedy Awards
Writer of the Year - 2001
Royal Television Society Award
The Second Coming - 2003
BAFTA Cymru
Siān Phillips Award for Outstanding Contribution to Network Television - 2006
Hugos
Nomination - 2007
It misses accolades such as The Stage declaring him as: 'No. 1 in the list of the Top Ten artists working in British TV'. They said of him:
Or the Radio Times asking a number of movers and shakers in the industry and declaring RTD to be the 17th Most Powerful Person in Television Drama (I think I'm right in saying that he was the highest ranked writer in the list - and that he has been employed, or had his services sought, by most of the others on that list).
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
So respectfully I'll say - you are wrong. Not only is he 'widely acknowledged' - but far from having to hunt for obscure references - the evidence for such is blatant and easily seen.
I'll add - just because I love to do so - that the most widely and critically well received script for the latest incarnation of Doctor Who was an RTD script - I'm sure we all remember which one that was...!
Perhaps you've doing your media devouring a little too selectively?
No - as I've demonstrated above - the flaw would seem to lie in what you've exposed yourself too as it isn't hard to find major support for RTD's widespread acclaim. Don't take my word for it - as Paul Abbott (do I need to provide evidence of how well he is regarded?) who said of RTD that he is:
and said of 'The Second Coming' that it was:
Or how about Nicola Shindler (I'm sure I don't need to give her pedigree) who said of RTD:
I'm sure you don't need me to tell you how much effort Lorraine Heggessey put into getting RTD - or the many glowing things she's had to say about him.
The BAFTA committee that awarded RTD the Dennis Potter award said in their citation:
Do I even need to go into the growing list of highly selective actors who have been drawn to Doctor Who and when asked why name RTD's scripts every time?
I'm sorry - but this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is so much ready critical acclaim for RTD out there that to claim that it isn't obvious and widespread is just ridiculous. In fact - find me an article (red-top critics excepted for obvious reasons) that *doesn't* routinely call him one of the UK's best writers, doesn't mention his name alongside the Abbotts and McGoverns of this world, doesn't mention his awards for writing. Good luck with that...!”
“If you haven't seen it - it isn't there? Do I understand you correctly?
And if I produce reams of evidence to show that you've missed a lot - that would be be using my 'itchy google-finger'?
Sorry - but your 'devouring' has missed the huge amount of praise for RTD by more critics than you can shake a stick at. It misses quotes from the BBC, C4, ITV and various independent producers who all want to work with him. It misses the high praise for RTD by other high flying writers -such as Matthew Graham, Paul Abbott, Steven Moffat. It misses the parade of highly respected awards that RTD has won - including:
BAFTA
Children's Award for Best Drama - 1996
Dennis Potter Award for Outstanding Writing for Television - 2006 (which puts him into the same company as Alan Plater, Paul Abbott, Stephen Poliakof and Lynda La Plante).
British Comedy Awards
Writer of the Year - 2001
Royal Television Society Award
The Second Coming - 2003
BAFTA Cymru
Siān Phillips Award for Outstanding Contribution to Network Television - 2006
Hugos
Nomination - 2007
It misses accolades such as The Stage declaring him as: 'No. 1 in the list of the Top Ten artists working in British TV'. They said of him:
Or the Radio Times asking a number of movers and shakers in the industry and declaring RTD to be the 17th Most Powerful Person in Television Drama (I think I'm right in saying that he was the highest ranked writer in the list - and that he has been employed, or had his services sought, by most of the others on that list).
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
So respectfully I'll say - you are wrong. Not only is he 'widely acknowledged' - but far from having to hunt for obscure references - the evidence for such is blatant and easily seen.
I'll add - just because I love to do so - that the most widely and critically well received script for the latest incarnation of Doctor Who was an RTD script - I'm sure we all remember which one that was...!
Perhaps you've doing your media devouring a little too selectively?
No - as I've demonstrated above - the flaw would seem to lie in what you've exposed yourself too as it isn't hard to find major support for RTD's widespread acclaim. Don't take my word for it - as Paul Abbott (do I need to provide evidence of how well he is regarded?) who said of RTD that he is:
and said of 'The Second Coming' that it was:
Or how about Nicola Shindler (I'm sure I don't need to give her pedigree) who said of RTD:
I'm sure you don't need me to tell you how much effort Lorraine Heggessey put into getting RTD - or the many glowing things she's had to say about him.
The BAFTA committee that awarded RTD the Dennis Potter award said in their citation:
Do I even need to go into the growing list of highly selective actors who have been drawn to Doctor Who and when asked why name RTD's scripts every time?
I'm sorry - but this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is so much ready critical acclaim for RTD out there that to claim that it isn't obvious and widespread is just ridiculous. In fact - find me an article (red-top critics excepted for obvious reasons) that *doesn't* routinely call him one of the UK's best writers, doesn't mention his name alongside the Abbotts and McGoverns of this world, doesn't mention his awards for writing. Good luck with that...!
”
This is possibly the most factual post we have ever had on this forum.
i think the 45 minute episodes are the problem ... its hard to get any depth and mystery if everything from beginning to end has to happen within 45 minutes ... you end up with a childish / frantic chase around corridors and everything is solved easily 5 mins from the end ... no doubt this weeks episode will be the same groundhog day fare ...
Originally Posted by d2macreject:
“I like Doctor Who as a concept and watch it cause of the nostalgia and to support British sci-fi, of which there isn't nearly enough, but if all the shows I download weren't on mid season break I think I wouldn't even bother again this week.
This isn't a personal attack on RTD, it's an attack on his scripts. The writing just seems lazy. When you watch a show like 'Lost' or 'Desperate Houswives' it may not be 5/5 every week, but you feel there is at least some kind of editorial discipline going on.”
“I like Doctor Who as a concept and watch it cause of the nostalgia and to support British sci-fi, of which there isn't nearly enough, but if all the shows I download weren't on mid season break I think I wouldn't even bother again this week.
This isn't a personal attack on RTD, it's an attack on his scripts. The writing just seems lazy. When you watch a show like 'Lost' or 'Desperate Houswives' it may not be 5/5 every week, but you feel there is at least some kind of editorial discipline going on.”
So, you're an illegal downloader who thinks that Lost is an example of editorial discipline...
I don't think RTD will be losing too much sleep over your opinons.
Last edited by Mickey S : 06-04-2007 at 14:10
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