[flagpole]

So vadfone have done it again. changed their pricing in the middle of a contract

I'm 20 days into a new contract that had inclusive data that i will now lose.

I specifically asked the sales guy if i would still keep my data and he said yes i recorded him saying you will definitely keep your data he was ofcourse lying as the sales guys had been informed.

I estimate that under the new pricing it will double my bill.

to say i'm annoyed doesn't quite cover it.

[prking]

Surely, if a change is made to your disadvantage then you have the right to cancel the contract?

Did you tell the sales rep you were recording him?
Also we dont get told things until the very last minute!
And it is a clause in your contract that you have agreed to that they can change some of the terms of the contract.

[Aye Up]

You miss understand the rule of contract law in the UK, you do not give Vodafone permission to make changes and agreeing to those changes before even knowing what they are. What your suggesting is when you sign on the dotted line you give Vodafone carte blanch to go and make any changes they want and you have no choice but to agree with them.

When you sign up for an agreement, it becomes legal and binding. It must be stuck to throught it's term, if either party breaks or changes any aspect (without prior agreement) the contract becomes void and unenforceable. The wonderful thing being is that if you don't like the new terms of the adjusted contract you are perfectly within your rights to cancel.

[flagpole]

There is a clause in the contract that says that if they make chages as they are allowed to do and that has the effect of increasing your bill by 10% based on previous usage you can cancel

So i put this to them in a polite email, having spoken to 191 and been told to do this.

Quote:

Changes in Data charges

I have just received a text from yourselves informing me of the changes in data charges and directing me to vodafone.co.uk/dataprices, (which is not yet working.)

After speaking to 191 I have been advised of the changes and how they affect me.

To explain my position I extended my anytime 200 + 500 texts on the 17th of March specifically to give myself the inclusive data that came with the anytime plans and their text packs. I asked the sales/retention gentleman specifically if this would allow me to keep my data and was assured that it would. Indeed I have a recording of him offering this assurance.

I have been advised this morning that 1) on the first of June I will lose my data allowance, 2) the sales team knew about this at the time. As I'm sure you can understand I'm, and I chose my words carefully, a bit annoyed by this, not least because this is the second time vodafone have changed my contract midway through.

I estimate based on a crude calculation that this change, based on my previous usage, will cost me around £16pcm more than I am currently paying, and under T&Cs 8 a) I, this would comfortably allow me to cancel my contract.

My contract is without a handset. I pay £15pcm for my tariff. By way of a solution, I would suggest the following: I keep my existing arrangement until the 1st of June at which point I be allowed to break my contract and move to a new one with inclusive data bundled.

I would appreciate your thoughts on this matter.

kind regards Nigel.

Polite of me no???

I was a little shocked by the reply:

Quote:

Dear Nigel,

Thank you for contacting Vodafone Customer Services regarding data charges text message received by you.

As market research conducted in the past few months we have analysed that our customers like the simplicity and reassurance of a monthly data pack and they want it to be similar to their monthly home broadband package. For this reason we have revised


If you access Vodafone live/internet you will receive 15MBs for that day and you pay only 1 pound for that day




What’s exciting is that you can use any of the following up to 15 MBs of data:


– 20 live! or made for mobile pages (EBaymobile.co.uk)
– 10 Sky Sports pages
– 20 BBC homepages (WWW pages not mobile pages)
– 5-10 CCN pages
– 5 EBay pages


• Examples of 15MB:
– 15 minutes of video streaming e.g. TV
– 600 Vodafone live! pages
– 150 pages of EBay auctions
– 7 music tracks (average live! full music tracks are 2MB)


Please note if you access more than 15MBs of data in one day you will be charged according to your price plan.


Please note that we have not breached the Terms and Conditions as according to the Airtime Terms and Conditions, Vodafone has the right to introduce new prices from time to time providing a 14-day prior notice.


If you wish to view the Terms and Conditions, please visit www.vodafone.co.uk

If there is anything else we can assist you with, please feel free to contact us.

Kind regards,



Jalpesh Parikh
Vodafone Customer Services

So there we go. My bill will double, but it will be easier for me to understand.

I actually understand my bill ok at the moment.

I sent this reply....

Quote:

Please respond to the original email i sent you, i can see the advantages of the new data plans you have introduced for some people.

i'm not interested in having some publicity material sent to me but would appreciate you responding to the points i raised.

i am well aware that under term 7a) you can increase your charges with 14 days notice. You will be aware that under 8a)i that if this has the affect of increasing my bill by more than 10% based on previous usage that i have the right to cancel. Simply ignoring me saying this does not make it not so. And if you look you will see that this change will double my bill.

i have proposed a solution to this other than me simply cancelling, in essence i'm suggesting that you add a data bundle to my package on the first of june and would appreciate your thoughts.

also regardless of your t&c's since i have a recording of your sales guy lying to me there is a trade and description issue. With out you co-operation on this my phone contract is essentially worthless to me and so i'm sure you can understand that i'm feeling a little frustrated.



regards nigel

I'll let you know how i get on.

Since i received the reply at 10pm i suspect it came from india....

It really is shocking behaviour.

[ravensbung]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

There is a clause in the contract that says that if they make chages as they are allowed to do and that has the effect of increasing your bill by 10% based on previous usage you can cancel

So i put this to them in a polite email, having spoken to 191 and been told to do this.



Polite of me no???

I was a little shocked by the reply:



So there we go. My bill will double, but it will be easier for me to understand.

I actually understand my bill ok at the moment.

I sent this reply....



I'll let you know how i get on.

Since i received the reply at 10pm i suspect it came from india....

It really is shocking behaviour.

I just thought i'd advise everyone that recording a telephone conversation without the consent of BOTH parties is against the law. Any recording not fitting these criteria are INADMISSIBLE in any future conflict or action.

It is also highly dubious (and possibly a breach of data protection laws) to post the full name of the Vodafone employee who replied to your email, in an internet forum which can be seen by all. May I politely request you remove his name from your post and as a side note, Vodafone ONLY use UK and Ireland contact centres that are open 24/7, that's why your reply was so late. There are NO VF contact centres outside the UK and Ireland that deal with UK customers.

---

Last edited by ravensbung : 06-04-2007 at 11:44.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

I asked the sales/retention gentleman specifically if this would allow me to keep my data and was assured that it would. Indeed I have a recording of him offering this assurance.

I have been advised this morning that 1) on the first of June I will lose my data allowance, 2) the sales team knew about this at the time.

How do you know that the Retention guy knew this information?
As I said in a previous post we do not get told this kind of information until we ourselves as Vodafone customers get notified.

[kibworthfv]

I think it is side tracking the issue about whether the sales rep knew about it at the time. It is also a distraction talking about whether you can publish a letter sent to you or not (personally, I think you can. It is your letter).

But the terms are clear. You have a right to cancel and all you have to do is write to them stating that you are applying the appropriate clause (in this case 8a). You do not have to give any dates - you can cancel immediately.

That all said, I think it is a poor show from Vodafone. I hate companies that change contract details part way through.

My suggestion would be cancel the contract, offer to switch to the 30 day contract and then port the number to an alternative supplier.

Hope it works out for you.

Regards

kfv

[flagpole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravensbung

I just thought i'd advise everyone that recording a telephone conversation without the consent of BOTH parties is against the law. Any recording not fitting these criteria are INADMISSIBLE in any future conflict or action.

It is also highly dubious (and possibly a breach of data protection laws) to post the full name of the Vodafone employee who replied to your email, in an internet forum which can be seen by all. May I politely request you remove his name from your post and as a side note, Vodafone ONLY use UK and Ireland contact centres that are open 24/7, that's why your reply was so late. There are NO VF contact centres outside the UK and Ireland that deal with UK customers.

You can request, but no.

Would i be right in thinking that you work for vodafone??? How about you apologise for their behaviour, suggest a resolution... Before you criticise me.

Unbelieveable i'm reacting to an absurd situation created by vod and i'm being told off.

If anyone can tell me specifically why i have to remove the name then i will, otherwise it stays. their answe was appauling.

[flagpole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesclewlow

How do you know that the Retention guy knew this information?
As I said in a previous post we do not get told this kind of information until we ourselves as Vodafone customers get notified.

The very helpful cs guy i spoke to told me that he was aware then and the sales guys would also have been aware.

n

So because a Customer Service rep knew that means everybody else knew?

[mrdeejay]

I am am so fed up with Vodafone last September they took away my incluive MMS from contract. I had a bundle of 500 text messages and then a text saying that picture messges will no longer be included from my text bundle.

Then again they are doing this vodafone live and MMS were part of your texts etc.

This is twice they have done this to me within a year and I feel Vodafone do not care less the lat time I called up to complain about this and nothing was done.

I was paying £40 a month at the time everything was included calls, texts MMS and Vodafone Live. OI took that deal nearly 2 years ago and thought that my bill would never go above £40 that was the whole point. I have since changed my tariff but now see they want to take Vodafone live off me too.

I will definetly will not be staying with this mob after my current deal runs out. They are getting worse instead of better.

[BoBaDoB]

i find it rather amusing how people jump to conclusions about what is going to happen. I would suggest to look out for what is to come

[Mr Cable]

Isn't there a time limit for requesting to cancel your contract after such changes are made? 28 days or so?

[Zog]

Flagpole is PERFECTLY CORRECT re. the 10% increase clause.

The last time they did this I demonstrated clearly what the impact of their changes would be.

They did argue for several weeks, but eventually caved in and I kept the W900 before moving over to T-mob.

[KIIS102]

Well im like a week and half into my 12month contract, assuming i stay with VF do these new data charge things mean i can get out of my contract and keep my phone? Even though i actually dont want to drop my contract cause i got a good deal

[flagpole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIIS102

Well im like a week and half into my 12month contract, assuming i stay with VF do these new data charge things mean i can get out of my contract and keep my phone? Even though i actually dont want to drop my contract cause i got a good deal

It does mean that. they will resist. I rather think that it's because of this a policy vodafone try to resist all 8a) contract breaks.

[flagpole]

Sorry I've been away for a couple of days, time to update you:

Vodafone's latest trick is to say that 8a) only applies to line rental, not usage. this is ofcourse total *******. They're just dragging their heals.

I've spoken to the ombudsman, who advises me my case is strong and the next step is to write to the customer service manager, ask for a final ruling, then take it out of vod's hands.

so their mail said (there's not much point you reading this really, it says nothing of note apart from the lies):

Quote:

Good afternoon Mr Coldwell,



Thanks for your email. I'm sorry to hear that you're unhappy with the recent changes to our pricing policy. I have some information for you.



Clause 8a of our terms and conditions refers to an increase in your monthly line rental costs. Your monthly line rental hasn't increased as part of this change. This means that you are bound by the original contract arrangement that you agreed to.



Our sales agent was correct when he advised you that your extras pack allowance could be used for data. The decision to withdraw this has been made recently. I'm sorry that information about this wasn't available at the time.



I don't have any information about packages that may become available in the future. I can't confirm that a data package will become available that can be added to your price plan.



If you need anything else Mr Coldwell then please don't hesitate to contact me.



Best wishes,

I'm quite pleased with my reply, i look forward to them completely ignoring it.

Quote:

Dear xxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your recent e-mail. I appreciate, if not what you have to say that you have responded to the questions I have asked.

I have several observations that I would wish to make regarding your assertion that 8a) applies to line rental only, as this is contrary to both the advice I have sort and my own understanding of contract law. As you read these I would like you to bear in mind both 7a) and 8a) that I have included below for our convenience and also the fact that you are attempting to justify legally that it is OK for Vodafone to introduce a change in charges, mid-contract, that will have the affect of doubling my phone bill.

7) Variation of Charges and Terms

a) We reserve the right to increase/decrease our charges from time to time and/or introduce new charges from time to time. If we increase/decrease our charges, we will give you at least 14 days' prior notice.

8) Ending of this Agreement

a) i) we increase in the United Kingdom and under clause 7a, call or other usage charges which have the effect of increasing your call or other usage charges by more than 10 or the increase in RPI calculated as in 8a above (which ever is the greater) based upon your previous call or usage pattern;

--8a) Refers to ‘call or other usage charges,’ since this it is not set out in 1) definitions what this means then according to one of the most basic principles of contract law we must look to an accepted definition, the interpretation of the common man. It is obvious to me that doubling my bill would quite clearly be covered by increasing my ‘call or other usage charges’ by more than 10%. It is dangerous for you as representative of Vodafone to arbitrarily redefine words in the contract based on no principal in law.

--The confusion surrounding to what 8a) applies may well derive from it’s origins: You are probably aware that historically the condition derives from an OfCom regulation which pertained only to voice minutes and restricted changes in call charges only. This was back when calls were billed per minute, before the days of bundled minutes and data. This however is entirely anecdotal, as the origins of the term are irrelevant. It is now in the contract and must be taken as is.

--If the term 8a) refers only to line rental then to what does the phrase ‘based upon your previous call or usage pattern’ refer? There would be no need for this line if 8a) applied only to line rental.

--In ‘your’ previous correspondence with me you have justified the change under 7a) with its associated 14 days notice. This is a tacit admission that 8a) applies.

If you have sort legal clarification on this condition and how it pertains to me then I can only think that you have not explained the situation clearly to your legal team. I have explained this clearly and can only assume that if you had the advice you received would have been the same as mine.

So we are all clear on this, my standard bill includes most months, just my line rental, and over the passed many months, spreading several contracts, this includes spread evenly over the month, 8-10 megabytes of data transfer. Under your new charging regime this will cost me an additional £16-£20 a month, more than doubling my line rental ‘based upon [my] previous call or usage pattern’.

Above and beyond the legal aspect I find it hard to believe that you, as a representative of Vodafone, possibly as a Vodafone customer, and most importantly of all as a person, honestly believe that it is fair or reasonable for Vodafone to announce a change in pricing some 16 days into a 12 month contact that will have the affect of more than doubling my bill whilst providing me with exactly the same service. We are after all talking about a very small amount of data, an amount that if I were to use in just one day would cost me a pound. I’m not an unreasonable man, I don’t want anything for nothing. I just want to pay what I agreed for the service that I will continue to receive.

In the spirit of this, customer service, goodwill, what ever you want to call it, I would look to you to take some discretionary action that would allow us to draw a line under this and stop it consuming anymore of our time. And allow me to enjoy the same service from Vodafone that I signed up for, at the same price.

Kind regards Nigel Coldwell

So it's in their hands again. I'm off to the ombudsman next, they should really think of a way to settle. seems pretty clear to me.

nigel

[flagpole]

Some progress.

The Customer.Care guy i'm speaking to says i can cancel after the new charges come into affect under 8a) he's wrong ofcourse. The T&Cs say this has to be done before...

[UKC101]

Are you kidding!
Are these new data charges applicable to all current contracts with Vodafone? As I have never had any text saying so. (Nor did I get one when the MMS charges changed)

Please can someone inform me of the full charges to be implicated for data usage.

also a little confused about the 15mb usage, 20 Live pages. Does this mean Vodafone Live pages as well? Also I use my phone for sending email via a POP3 server does this count as my usage

[flagpole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKC101

Are you kidding!
Are these new data charges applicable to all current contracts with Vodafone? As I have never had any text saying so. (Nor did I get one when the MMS charges changed)

Please can someone inform me of the full charges to be implicated for data usage.

also a little confused about the 15mb usage, 20 Live pages. Does this mean Vodafone Live pages as well? Also I use my phone for sending email via a POP3 server does this count as my usage

Email, v-live, everything will now be unbundled. You will pay for all of it by cash. the rice is £2 per meg, but after you've paid for the first half meg (£1) you can then use a further 14meg in one day.

I suggest you contact CS you're welcome to use some of the above.

[UKC101]

Well this is going to drive my bill up about £30 a month! I am always clicking the vodafone live homepage by mistake with my phone, atleast twice a day if not more. Fncking branded phones!
So sound like my bill is going to sky rocket!
Wouldn't bother me quite so much if they removed the settings for the Live link

The Vodafone Live! homepage is still free. It only becomes chargeable if you click on a link that takes you away from the homepage.

If you use your handset to check emails then this is also classsed as usage.

Data bundles will be available in June from what i've been told so if you are a high data user these may benefit you.

[eddie2004]

ya all need to take a chill pill!

[flagpole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeozhane

The Vodafone Live! homepage is still free. It only becomes chargeable if you click on a link that takes you away from the homepage.

If you use your handset to check emails then this is also classsed as usage.

Data bundles will be available in June from what i've been told so if you are a high data user these may benefit you.

I'm told May