It's not too intrusive, but I think they overestimated the audience's pining for Rose. It really evaporated after the Xmas special. Of course, they're not to have known that filming this episode last August.

lol, maybe Rose might be an arc word?

Im glad they mentioned Rose. She was really important to him so it would be unrealistic to never mention her again!!

Not really, no. Companions come and go - and rarely get back-referenced. It's the nature of the beast. I think we all expected the X-mas special to be the Doctor's 'transitional episode' (we have no idea how long the Doc has been sans companion after that - could hypothetically be years), with the Doc doing his dewy-eyed bit there - the new series needs to be forward-looking - it's already stronger than (new) season 2 so far, and I'd hate to see the momentum lost by perpetually harping on about the ghost of companions past.
Last edited by Histeria : 08-04-2007 at 01:47

Are you a moderator?

I don't think that the references are there for the benefit of the audience, I feel that they are there for the benefit of the continuing narrative, an underlying theme providing a background for the Doctor

I think it was quite a touching scene, she in bed next to him, she looking at him, he looking through her head not seeing her, saying the answer is staring him in the face, but he can't see it. And then he says the R-word and kills everything Martha imagined. It's normal though, if you lose someone that close to you, you do not just switch off your feelings or memories.

I agree. We all loved Rose . So for the Dr to never mention her again would just make the whole show feel 'false'. The only other 'assistant' we have ever connected with is Mary Jane. Tom Baker mentioned Mary Jane (I don't know exactly which episodes but a 'fan' will tell me....hopefully but we never argued against that.

Freema is great (and my god is she hot). Watching last nights episode she just made me laugh. Her questions where just right. I thought 'I would ask that as well' LOL. However Rose was very good in her own right. WHat makes her memorable is because she is Billy Piper and nobody expected her to be any good. We all got proved wrong

I think great that they havn't just got rid of Rose, it would of seemed a little silly to not mention her at all.
Last edited by stesteste : 08-04-2007 at 10:43

To quote Bill Shatner "get a life"...

That is quality. The irony of it is that Bill catapulted himself to legend status with the Star Trek geeks after saying that LOL

Errr.... Tom Baker may have smoked a bit of 'Mary Jane' in his time but I don't think she was ever a companion!

LMAO . My apologies. I meant Sarah Jane. Mary Jane as you correctly say maybe adding to my poor memory of even remembering the smallest things

Oi! Speak for yourself.

That's true - I don't mind the mentioning of her. Well, no, I do, but I think it's more believeable that he would mention her.

I go along with that, although I do think somewhere along the line the fuss about her went into overdrive. As you say, people thought Billie Piper wouldn't be any good - I remember the reaction when she was in the Chaucer adaptaton with James Nesbitt. People were incredulous that she could be picked to play that part and then afterwards most people were impressed with her. The same thing happened with Doctor Who but then - I think partly, as ever, due the newspapers - she went from being acknowledged as a pretty decent actress to some kind of shining beacon of talent.

For me she's no better or worse than a lot of actresses, but she's not a stand out performer by any means. Of course I'm speaking based on personal taste here, I'm not saying people who are knocked out by her are wrong.

Agreed 100%.

Rose was such a central character in the new series that it would be inconceivable that the Doctor didn't mention her from time to time.

Its about building the story of Martha, do you maybe think there is a reason for him pondering Rose. I wonder if the OP considered maybe this is going somewhere as the series develops. RTD is a master of human drama after all.

That's the reason I am watching, not that much the scifi element as the human drama The reason why they mention Rose is to show us where he is now and I think he'll grow on Martha, although not in a romantic sense. Simply because she's there, smart, funny and beautiful, so he's not alone with his thoughts. RTD is an expert on unrequited love, so that's what he's aiming at here, I think. It's clear now that Martha has a thing for him, but he has no clue.

I think we'll be getting Rose back, that's why we're getting the mentions... well I hope so anyway!

Oh I hope not. Rose is gone, she was a great character played by a great actress but its time to move on. Martha is a new but interesting charatcer played it seems by a very talented young actress.

Honestly that is about the only stunt that would seriously put me off the series, I normally defend it against all and sundry but that would be indefensible IMO and I would abondon it to its invevitable demise.

Exactly. most TV shows would have ignored it and done the 'lets just make things all nice and cosy with a new person' thing, which completely betrays the story. I think this is the first series I've seen like this to really go after this one realistically (strange it should be this show), and it's great.

Martha is part of the Rose storyline, just because she's also something different, does not change the fact that it's a strong bit of the show (and bravo for awesome writing like that).

Also I'm loving the set-up for the whole unrequited love thing. This could get really good.
Last edited by _Zd_Phoenix_ : 08-04-2007 at 23:56

He did mention Sarah. He also mentioned Victoria, Jo Grant, Adric, Romana, Jamie, Zoe, Susan (of course) and Tegan. However from what I can remember he mentioned them once maybe twice and then moved on. Remember in School reunion Rose tells Sarah that the Doctor "never mentions" her. I don't mind him refering to Rose but we've had it every episode. Why?? Lets move on with the series. If we mention it all the time the word Rose will become annoying and she won't be remembered for the special assistant that she was.

If anything I think the mentioning of Rose without any consideration or realisation from the Doctor of how it effects Martha is actually endearing her to the audience.

She wont take it for long and will hopefully say something. I get why he's saying it, but he needs to move on.

My own personal opinion is that CE's Doctor and Rose were a perfect match. But the second season seemed a little off as I just couldn't fully get behind DT's Doctor and Rose. And I think that's why I haven't as yet fully taken to DT. Yet. But I think with a new companion in Martha I will. She's his companion, not from a previous Doctor.

Also, Rose was starting to get on my nerves towards the end. They wrote her too clingy.

I think Freema's doing a great job and DT seems more at ease with her too.
Last edited by duryea : 09-04-2007 at 20:39

it is almost like they feel the need to constantly press or drive the point home, which is about as subtle as a sledgehammer. we went through it the first series being constantly told of The Doctor was the last of the timelords. think we got the message after episode two!

the younger audience are not stupid and do catch onto things fairly quickly so I do hope these constant Rose references will lessen as the series progresses. I am not suggesting The Doctor should forget her but we don't need it ramming down our throats either.

Quite agree. Thanks. Any more Rose references next week and I'll scream. Someone else thought that maybe the name Rose and not Saxon was the story arc this year. Hopefully they are wrong, but you never know.

so far i don't think freema is as skillful as billie when it comes to delivering lines.

I'm glad in a way that he keeps mentioning her cos it shows that he misses her in the same way the viewer does too. I feel exactly the same and if I were the Doctor I would be brooding over her too. I think it's only what you get used to. By next series she will have grown on you in the same way you learn to love someone else again.

I do think that RTD had to break off the relationship somehow cos it wouldn't be right for the Doctor to get emotionally involved. He needs to keep moving on, otherwise he'd keep getting his hearts broken over and over again like he did with Sarah Jane.
Last edited by The Wizard : 10-04-2007 at 10:48