Hi,

I've tried various cheap scart switchers in the past without much luck, due to widescreen switching not working, signal degredation, poor RGB support etc etc. I've just stumbled across this one below which appears to meet my requirements and is almost half price at £35 inc del.

http://www.alltopnotch.co.uk/product...roducts_id/173

An elegant designed A/V console with simple plug and play operation for connection of your audio and video equipment (Satellite receiver, VCR, DVD, digital TV, camcorder, Hi-Fi, video sender, etc.) to one central control unit without complex interconnection or the inconvenience of changing cables between units. Smart automatic A/V, RGB and widescreen switching.
Smart automatic A/V, RGB and widescreen switching
3-colour LED display of current video inputs and outputs
Watch and record with two videos at the same time
RGB, S-VHS and composite video (CVBS) recording
Unique LOCK function for uninterrupted recording
6 SCART sockets, 4 RGB and 5 CVBS inputs and 2 RGB and 3 CVBS outputs
Automatic switching inputs on front for video camera and games RCA phono outputs for video sender, Hi-Fi or surround sound amplifier
Complete with remote control
Power supply 230Vac, 50Hz
Weight 1.84kg
Dimensions 335 x 250 x 63mm
Remote:Battery 3V (2 x AA)

Has anybody used this model before and have any good\bad feedback on it?

Cheers
Rob

Suspiciously cheap no-name device? Who can tell?

This sounds like a clone of the Trilogy 1/Quintro switch. The giveaway is the "unique lock function". I had one but returned it for several reasons. Firstly, the widescren switching wasn't working properly - the circuitry inside was randomly pulling the voltage down rather than passing it through directly. Secondly, I found the operation very very awkward, especially considering I'm colour blind! In order to work out which inputs are being selected for which outputs you have to match the colours of the LEDs, and the instruction manual says really confusing things like "to lock a source to the output press the soruce select button whereupon all outputs turn green then press the lock indicator and the two selected ones turn red and selecting another source to view turns the LED orange. To unlock, press the same source button again and all LEDs turn red then press the unlock button..." Eeek! In order to correctly route inputs to outputs you have to work out which ones to lock and which ones to send to the TV2 output....this would become clear (or not!) if you were able to see the instruction manual. It's not a case of simply selecting an input, it's really awkward to use.

Lastly, the much-wanted second RGB output is not an independent output, it doubles up as an input. One of the input sockets has RGB out and composite in, another has RGB in and composite out. If you want to connect a DVD recorder to it, two of the 4 RGB inputs are taken up making it very inflexible.

It *might* work for you, but I wouldn't recommend it personally. I am still searching for the holy grail of a SCART switch with two independent RGB outputs and I've currently got this on order:

http://www.ricamstore.co.uk/erol.html#4207x4252

There is a 4-way model too. It's a 6x2 way matrix switch, which is basically a 6-way switch combined with a 2-way distribution amplifier.

Someone else has reported that response to the remote control is flaky, but apart from that it seems to work well. And this is indeed the only true switcher I've found that has more than one independent RGB output with widescreen etc. And actually selecting which inputs go to which outputs is simplicity itself.

Do a search through this forum for scart switches, in particular the word Trilogy, there have been many discussions on this subject.

If you don't need the second RGB output then I recommend the manual 'rotary' switch from Satcure, or if you want a remotely controlled one, the Tristar unit from Argos. Those are the only 4-way single output switchers I've found that handle RGB and widescreen properly. They don't provide for a record loop though, but that is also their advantage. The reason why the cheap switches are never satisfactory is because they have record loops and limited RGB capability and this introduces feedback problems. The switches I've mentioned have no such problems, they simply switch all pins through to an output with no interconnected wiring and bidirectional considerations.

There is no 'cheap' solution to RGB switching problems. You really have to get a decent switch and, if you want more than one independent output, combine it with distribution amplifiers.
Last edited by Chris Simon : 10-04-2007 at 19:13

Cheers Chris for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply. I think I'll give this one a miss then.

Rob

It does look good but also looks like a crappy version of the one from argos. I do understand why people want these though. If your tv only has two or three scarts it is allot of hassle to go round the back and change them around for something else

[deleted - must learn to read properly]

My tv has 3 scarts but only one of them takes RGB hence my need.

Rob

Are you taking advantage of RGB SCART pass-through on all your devices? What do you need to hook up?

Could you spill the beans,on how to set that up,gomezz
Thanks.

The general principle is:-

DeviceA (AV1) --> (AV2) DeviceB (AV1) --> (AV1) TV

DeviceA is typically a set top box (satellite or cable or DTT) and DeviceB is typically a recorder. You can either record from DeviceA to DeviceB and watch the TV OR you can record on DeviceB using its internal tuner and watch DeviceA using SCART pass-through.

There can be more devices in the chain if you like although this can complicate what you can watch and record at the same time.
Last edited by gomezz : 10-04-2007 at 23:01

DVD Player only has one Scart
NTL Box has two scarts, one to TV and one to Tivo (Tivo doesn't handle RGB to my knowledge)
Labgear freeview box only has one Scart.

All are capable of RGB output but I can't config it in such a way to allow for passthrough for all devices. Thus I can only have one device connected to the RGB input.

Rob

The 4x2 version of the switch that Chris Simon describes may do want you want. Cheapest supplier probably here:

http://www.deafequipment.co.uk/store....do?id=1074843

The remote control problem that I found with this device is that is stops responding after a random period of time, requiring a power-cycle to fix it. The push-button control still works when this happens so if you don't need remote functionality it isn't a problem.

I suspect that the cause of this problem is that the device doesn't properly filter out the remote signals from other devices that use the same NEC remote control protocol. I have three other devices that use this protocol (a Toshiba TV, a Toshiba DVD/VCR combo and a Topfield TF5800). They all use different device codes so they should get along fine in theory.

I would be interested to hear from anyone who uses one of these devices whether or not they find the same problem.

It sounds like you don't need a second RGB output from a switch then, as you've already got the recording to Tivo from NTL sorted out. So either of the 4-way switches I've mentioned should do the trick. Unless you also want to be able to record from the Freeview box? Joytech do a range of multi-way remote-control SCART switches, you could investigate them, but I think I discounted them initially after looking at forums due to various issues that some people have had, e.g. widescreen.

The 4x2 matrix switcher would give you a second, independent RGB/Pin8 output so you could take that to another TV/room or a recorder. e.g. you could watch Freeview on the main TV while the Tivo is recording NTL and someone else is watching the DVD in another room! Or watch DVD on the main TV while the Tivo is recording NTL and a VCR or HDD recorder is recording Freeview. Or watch Freeview on one TV and NTL on a second TV. Or playback Tivo on one TV with Freeview on second TV... You get the drift!
Last edited by Chris Simon : 11-04-2007 at 13:12

These always seem to get good reviews:

http://www.bluedelta.co.uk/Smart-SCART.htm
http://www.bluedelta.co.uk/smart-scart-plus.htm

Not cheap, but as I say, they get good write ups. Take a look over on AVFORUMS and these are well thought of.

Maplins sell them as per these links:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?...677&doy=search

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?...=14&doy=search

Thanks for the comments guys.

Chris you're right about not needing the two RGB outputs, one would be fine as I don't need to record freeview. You mention taking the 2nd feed off to another room, have you done this yourself? What cable did you use and over what length?

Tony, those smart switchers look like what I need and the basic one is only £25 in maplin at the moment. I'll have to have a read on the avforums to see if they are any good.

Cheers
Rob

Yes. Or rather I'm in the middle of doing it! The 6x2 matrix switch on order hasn't arrived yet but I have indeed now got a 10m SCART cable dangling through the bannisters, one end is at the main TV in the lounge where all the equipment is and the other end is upstairs in the computer room connected to a 17" widescreen LCD TV. I've tested it by plugging the cable into the output of my existing SCART switch downstairs and there is no discernible loss of quality upstairs. The lead I bought is the 10m Gold one at http://www.ricamstore.co.uk/ - I am unsure whether I want to go the whole hog and provide SCART wall sockets connected together by loose 21-way cable, but I got this ready-made cable just for speed to get it all set up to start with.

The subject of long SCART cables also came up recently in this forum (or was it satellite technical?) - try a search on 20m SCART and see what was said.

Once the matrix switche arrives, the long cable can be plugged in permanently and I'll then have two TVs in different room able to view any of my AV equipment based in the lounge, independently, in RGB, stereo and with proper widescreen switching.

I could then extend the system with a simple 4-way switch at that second output, or invest in a 4-way distribution amplifier) to have that second output going to one or all of 4 different rooms! There would still only be 2 distinct "zones" though, the 4 extra rooms couldn't have different sources. To have them all independent you'd need a complex system of distribution amplifiers and switches!

I've also got an infra-red extender (the Powermid Dual Power http://www.habitek.co.uk/catalog/cat32_7.htm - although I don't think this is where I got it from in the end, I found somewhere cheaper) so I can actually control the equipment downstairs from upstairs. This can be extended into different rooms by buying additional receivers or transmitters as appropriate.

I've got a DVD/HDD recorder which is plugged into the Sky box, but the RGB output from the Sky box goes through a 2-way distribution amplifier (SCAMP2) so that it can go to both TV (and second TV via the matrix switch) and the recorder at the same time. Any further satellite oxes I get, or other bits of equipment I want to be able to record from, will also have a SCAMP2 and the recorder will then have a switch on it. Ultimate flexibility of which things you want to see in which rooms and also record from!

It's not cheap. But it depends on how far you want to go. In any case, it's cheaper than buying separate satellite boxes, DVD players, HDD recorders etc for each room!
Last edited by Chris Simon : 11-04-2007 at 14:49

I bought a HAMA SM-420 Scart 4x2 matrix switcher directly from
Germany about a year ago. I didn't know about the Skytronic products
at the time. However, from looking at the pictures it seems
identical in every detail to the Skytronic SB-5520 4x2 model with
Hama logos. It looks like another Trilogy 1/Quintro type cloning
situation.

The Hama is a brilliant product and has given no trouble except for
the freezing of the remote control from time to time as others have
mentioned. A power reset sorts it out. I have a Topfield 5800 PVR
and each time I press the remote on it the LEDs on the Hama blink.
It seems almost certain that the codes interfere and cause the
freezing. I have one of the outputs connected to the TV and the
other to my DVD recorder allowing me to watch or record any of the
4 inputs independently. I would have liked a 6 input model but Hama
did not make one. I'm thinking of buying the Skytronic SB-5525 6x2
model which is exactly the same size as the Hama (and the SB-5520).

The switches are actually made by Shinybow. Skytronic are the UK distributors, Hama is the German one.

The device seems to have trouble filtering out the signals from other devices that use the same NEC remote control protocol. I have been in contact with someone at Shinybow who has promised to ask their engineers about it. I'll let you know if I hear anything.
Last edited by Cobson : 15-04-2007 at 13:07

Sorry to dredge this up, but I just ordered one of these 4x2 switchers before reading about this issue.

Any response from Shinybow? How bad is the problem?

Ian

I am still trying to establish the exact scope of the problem. I have still had no response from Shinybow.

I have only heard of myself and the other poster in this thread having the problem so far, and we both have Topfield TF5800 PVRs. I also use other devices (a Toshiba TV and DVD/VCR) which use the NEC remote protocol which might also have affected it.

Chances are that if none of your equipment uses the NEC protocol then you will be fine. I would be interested in hearing how you get on.

Cobson just PM'd me asking if I'd got mine yet and if I'd experienced any problems. I might as well paste in my reply here!

Yes, I've had it for a couple of months now I think. I haven't noticed the remote problem, although I haven't really used it that much. I did notice a problem when controlling it from another room via a wireless infra-red extender - it wouldn't respond to a single keypress but required the same button pressing twice in succession, like a 'double-click'. I wonder if this is the same problem. Maybe when it's 'confused' it requires a keypress to bring it back to life first. But I haven't noticed this when controlling it directly.

I've also noticed a reduction in picture quality and some interference when both outputs are set to the same input, and also my Sky digibox won't work well with it. I've measured the output of the Sky SCART socket and it looks like the widescreen switching signal on Pin 8 together with the composite pin are a lower voltage than other equipment and the matrix switcher presumably doesn't cope with it. I don't get any sync on the picture first of all, but putting the Sky output through my existing powered 4-way switch first brings the picture back to life. But widescreen switching won't work. I think that might be the same problem as the Trilogy switch where the internal circuitry brings the input voltage down to a level (approx 6v) where it's no longer considered to be widescreen.

However, all other equipment works perfectly through the matrix switcher.



When all is said and done, I'm very happy with it as it's the only device on the market that does what it does, and I can live with those problems as there is a workaround for each one.

PS. I haven't got a Toppy! My other remote-controlled devices are: Philips VCR, Pioneer DVD player, Pioneer DVD/HDD recorder, Denon AV Amp, Pace Sky box.

Thanks for that. Sounds like "close but no cigar", which is a shame.

I will be driving it via an Ir sender, but I can program my remote to send the signal 2-3 times. I hope it doesn't use toggle codes as these are a pain!

I tend to have everything locked to widescreen, so the switching won't bother me too much.

Regards the picture problem when both TVs are watching the same source, this will be because they haven't done any impedence matching, which is sloppy. The unit will then present 2x70ohms, hence the bad picture. I'm going to have the second output driving a modulator, and I guess I can remove the impedance resistors in this.

I guess I just need to see how it works for me. I could build my own, but "the list" is rather long ...

Ian

Are you using a programmable remote from the other room ? I know that the Harmony remotes allow you to vary the length of the keypress and also the number of signals that are sent with each keypress (it defaults to three).


Interesting. I didn't notice any picture degradation with my 4x2 switch. I have sent it back so I can't check again. Also, I didn't have any widescreen issues. I had one output going to my TV and the other to a DVD/HDD recorder. Naughtily, I was using a macrovision cable to connect the recorder which has the effect of blanking out the line-23 widescreen switching signal. However, widescreen still worked so it definately must have picked up the scart pin-8 signal. Maybe my equipment was more tolerant of voltage levels ? However I use a Pioneer recorder which I notice you also use so I am not sure. Or is it just your tv that doesn't pick up the widescreen signal ?

No - I was just using the switcher's own remote.


Only the Sky box is affected, and only when connected through the matrix switcher. The Sky box was only putting out 5.8v on Pin 8, which is well within SCART specifications for the 6v triggering of widescreen (4.5v-7.5v I think) but my other devices output greater than 6v. So I think the switcher can't cope with less than 6v.

The TV recognises the widescreen voltage from the Sky box directly, but the matrix switcher doesn't - it outputs 0v to the TV on Pin 8 when the sky box is connected.

It works when the Sky box is daisy-chained through the Pio recorder, which probably regenerates Pin 8.

I guess most of us with lots of A/V equipment are looking for the perfect switching piece of kit.

I'd like one to do the following:

Inputs from:
1) RGB (or Component) - Panasonic HDD/DVD Recorder
2) RGB - Sky
3) RGB - Fusion FVRT200
4) RGB - Thomson DHD-4000
5) RGB - JVC Home Cinema
6) CVBS - Toshiba VCR

Outputs to:
7) RGB (or Component) - TV
8) RGB - Panasonic HDD/DVD Recorder

Should enable any two of 1) to 6) to be output to either 7) or 8), simulatanously reatining all RGB functionality.

Manual switching is probably the only solution