Well the Shinybow 6x2 switch just about does this with a couple of caveats. If none of your equipment uses the NEC remote protocol then that bug isn't going to be an issue.

The widescreen issue is only going to be a problem with Sky boxes and other odd equipment that doesn't do line-23 wss. Equipment that is DTG compliant and uses line-23 wss will be ok as TVs should give this a higher priority than the pin-8 signal.

I am no electromagician, but is not possible to boost the voltage that the Sky box outputs by sticking something in-line with the scart connection ? Resistors and that kind of stuff ?

That's exactly what my new 6x2 matrix switcher does! See the earlier posts in this thread. It's the only product on the market that can do it.

Note that I've gone a bit further too! For the devices that I want to be able to record from, I've got them each going through a 2-way distribution amplifier and into a switch box connected to the input of the recorder. So I've really got three independent outputs not two.

1. to TV #1 from switcher
2. to TV #2 from switcher
3. to DVD/HDD recorder

And with a bit of box-clevering with SCART breakout adaptors that switch composite and audio between in and out while passing RGB through intact, I feed Zone 2 audio from my AV Amp into the audio lines in the reverse direction of the SCART lead.

i.e.

Audio In lines at the TV carry Zone 1 audio
Audio Out lines at the TV carry Zone 2 audio

Output from the breakout adaptor goes into powered speakers. At the second TV, I can therefore watch and listen to one device and then choose to switch the audio to another device! Useful for listening to CD or whatever while monitoring a TV programme or a recording.

Yeah, I've thought of that before, you could take power from a 12v line or from a battery even. Problem is, it requires dissecting cables and/or SCART sockets! I can live with it considering it's only the Sky box that's affected...

Can you tell me more about line-23 WSS? I've only even seen scart with 21 wires and a shield, or does line-23 mean something different? TV scan line 23?


I doubt it can be done with passives, but a transistor will do it a treat, assuming you can find a decent VCC rail to use, which means you'll need a bit of powered equipment.

It really is a shame that everything on the market either seems to have dodgy Ir, nasty UIs, voltage droop, crosstalk, and/or bad impedence matching!

Ian

Yes, it's scan line 23.

Just been looking at the Trilogy 1 manual and as my DVD-recorder has component output and my TV component input, which is an alternative RGB quality connection, I think it would work, as follows:

1) YUV output from Panasonic HDD/DVD Recorder to TV AV4
2) RGB output from Sky to Trilogy SAT input
3) RGB output from Fusion FVRT200 to Trilogy DTT input
4) RGB output from Thomson DHD-4000 to Trilogy AUX input
5) RGB output from JVC Home Cinema to Trilogy DVD input
6) see below for VCR connections
7) RGB ouput from Trilogy TV1 to Toshiba TV AV1
8) RGB output from Trilogy VCR to Panasonic HDD/DVD Recorder AV2 input

I have excluded audio only connections from the above for simplicity and any connections from the Trilogy's TV2 output.

Anyone see any problems?

As far as I can tell I can watch:
Sky, Fusion, Thomson, JVC in RGB or Panny in YUV
while the Panny is recording either from its internal tuner or from any of the 4 sources in RGB

As far as my Toshiba VCR is concerned, I only require to be able to watch old videos (and maybe transfer them to DVD).
So, either
a) for watching or recording connect VCR TV scart to Panasonic HDD/DVD Recorder AV1/4 input (but can't watch while Panny is recording, or
b) connect VCR TV scartto TV AV2/3 (but can't record, except via a convoluted passthrough TV method)

I have a Quintro+ box, which is the same as a Trilogy under the hood.

The problem I found with it was that if you have different inputs locked to the vcr output and the TV output then you get ghosting on the tv display due to the signals interfering. I had the box swapped but it made no difference.

Also, the vcr output doesn't do pin-8 widescreen which would affect recordings from your Sky box.

Here are a couple of useful publications:

http://www.dtg.org.uk/publications/books/afd.pdf
http://www.dtg.org.uk/publications/b...guidelines.pdf

Essentially, the widescreen signal can be passed either by a voltage on pin-8 of a scart connection or by inserting special signalling into line-23 of the tv transmission signal itself. The latter is more flexible as it can signal a wider range of aspect ratios, and can be transmitted over any kind of cable (e.g. rf or s-video) rather than just scart. Therefore, although Tvs should respond to both types of signal, Line-23 should be given priority.

Unfortunately, not all manufacturers follow the DTG guidelines, or implement them badly.

Sky, in their wisdom, decided not to implement line-23 on their box and rely solely on scart pin-8 which is a nuisance for scart switch box users as few boxes handle this voltage correctly. Here is the ultimate workaround for this:

http://www.amcro.co.uk/wss208.htm

Finally, if you are using a macrovision cable then you lose the line-23 signalling and are stuck with pin-8.

Anyone else suffer this ghosting?

Surely my DVD recorder will just record whatever it is fed - irrelevant of a w/s signal

Yep - but what it is fed will be a 4:3 anamorphic picture, which you will have to stretch out manually on the TV to 16:9 if the WSS signal is not recorded too. Unless of course you've got your TV set permanently to stretchyvision!

If your dvd recorder can't record widescreen signals then it isn't a problem (not sure about the Panasonic's facilites). Personally I couldn't put up with a recorder that couldn't do this!

The ghosting is somewhat intermittent, but annoying.

Haven't checked my TV setting, but everything played via component from the DVD-recorder is shown as 16:9. All other are also 16:9 except the odd footie programme from abroad which shows with blackbars at the side

When you view a Sky channel such as UKTV, Discovery, Vh-1 does it fill the whole screen or does it have black bars either side? If it fills the whole screen, you've got your TV permanently set to 16:9.

Checked the setting it's set to widescreen (16:9), without automatic formatting.

I occasionally manually change it "on the fly" if it looks too distorted, but I prefer it to watching lots of 4:3 on a 16:9. I assume when I get black side bars its because a 16:9 picture is being broadcast with the bars as the original was 4:3.

As far as my recordings are concerned, what is happening?
[LIST][*]Am I watching a 16:9 picture recorded as 4:3 (centre extract?), then stretched back by my TV to 16:9?
[*]Is it different if the recording is on the HDD, DVD-RAM, DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW or are they all the same?
[*]Does it matter whether the source of the recording is the internal tuner or from external sources? Does it matter whether these sources are connected by scart, DIN or phono or whether the signal type is RGB, s-video or composite?[/LIST]
I admit it's a little academic on my current Toshiba CRT (32ZD26) as all recordings look great, but it may prove more important on the bigger HD-Ready LCD or Plasma I will be getting soon.

I believe (possibly wrongly) that Panasonic's will only record WSS onto DVD-RAM.

I therefore bought a Pioneer.

Yes, I think that's what's happening. You say this tends to occur only with foreign football broadcasts, which suggests to me that they fill the 4:3 picture will black bars and transmit as 16:9, so your TV being in 16:9 correctly displays it.

Sky boxes, however, do not do this padding so you are physically recording a 4:3 picture and when played back on a TV that is set to 16:9, will be stretched horizontally.

There is a very similar discussion here: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=590293


first of all, what are you recording from and what have you got its settings set at? for example, if you're recording from a Sky box and you've got a 16:9 TV, the Sky box should be set to 16:9 with SCART control On.

In this case, what will be recorded will always be a 4:3 shaped picture but for widescreen broadcasts there will be a flag recorded with it to tell the TV, when it's in Auto mode, to stretch it out when played back. If the TV is permanently set to 16:9, then even 4:3 broadcasts will be stretched out.

If the recorder doesn't record the widescreen signal, then what you'll get on playback is a horizontally squashed 4:3 picture with the TV on Auto, or a perfect 16:9 picture if it's permanently on 16:9.


Assuming the Sky box is set to 16:9 as above and it's a 16:9 programme, no it's not recording a centre extract, it's recording a horizontally squashed 16:9 picture to fit into 4:3 which your TV stretches out. If it's a 4:3 picture, then it's recorded as 4:3 and your TV incorrectly stretches it out because it's not in Auto.


I believe some recorders don't handle all formats the same.


It doesn't matter if the signal is RGB, s-video or composite.

Yes, the source matters, as different broadcast methods (Sky, Freeview, analogue) may or may not transmit widescreen programmes in the same way. Sky boxes need to be connected to the recorder via their TV SCART in order for widescreen switching to work as they don't insert the widescreen signal onto line 23 of the picture. Freeview boxes might be different - see the thread linked to above.

However, as long as you've got everything set up correctly, it should all work. Get that TV off 16:9 and into Auto! And make sure your Sky boxes and Freeview boxes and recorders are set up properly.

Thanks for the explanation, but as I said most of the time I prefer a stretched 4:3 picture to one that only fills 80% of the screen.

If it's a problem and looks distrorted, I manually switch to whichever TV aspect setting looks best. In any event as I use a component connection for the DVD recorder there is (I believe) no wss on theis source anyway.

Anyway for the moment it works for me (if it ain't broke don't fix it), but a scart switching unit would make RGB recording & watching simultaneously possible (I think), providing it is truly RGB and doesn't "ghost"

OK, 4x2 matrix now received and installed.

Pros:
- All the Ir commands are effectively discrete. So, we select the PVR in the kitchen, and the remote can switch the scart matrix and go to PVR mode.
- Looks well made

Cons:
- It's locked up once. YOYOY aren't the manufacturers fixing this? Any feedback from them? I'm going to hassle the people I bought this from.
- Weedy audio amps. It can't drive 10m of cable without *serious* distortion, so clearly the amps can't cope with a capacitive load and are collapsing because they can't supply the current to get the required slew. Plugging the output of this switcher into my old scart switch fixes it - clearly the cheepo smart scart switcher has been audio amps than this expensive matrix switch!

I'm going to work around the lockups by plugging it into an X10 socket. I can then program a macro on the remote to power cycle the switcher if it ever dies!

This product is this >| |< close to being perfect and it would take very little for the manufacturers to fix it.

Ian

Was it just the remote control that locked up, i.e. did the front buttons still work ?

Would you post what make and model of equipment you are using ? I'd like to see if any of them use the NEC protocol.

The people who you bought it from will no doubt be happy to exchange or refund you if it keeps locking up, but only the manufacturer's can fix it:

www.shinybow.com

The switch is an 'SB-5520' on their site. Unfortunately, still no response from them.

I must admit that I power cycled it before checking the front panel - will do that next time.

As I have the switcher centralised, all kinds of Ir gets beamed at it via my Ir->radio->Ir system from three different locations. My Ir system is also getting lots of interference at the moment and is going to get replaced, perhaps as soon as this weekend. Let's see how it is after that.

Ian

Bum, my wife just called to say that it had locked up again.

I really had hoped that the manufacturers might have leapt on this bug and that I had a unit that didn't suffer from this rather serious fault.

The buttons on the front of the unit were still working - it was just the Ir functionality that had died.

Ian

This sounds similar to the problem I have with my Sky box video output, whereby feeding it through another box in addition sorts it. But I haven't noticed any audio distortion on a 10m+ cable. Then again, my hearing isn't as good as it used to be!

I still haven't had a lock-up with mine though, it's funny that you've had it several times in the short space of time that you've had it.


Agreed.

Yep - I had mentioned my experiences to my supplier and they were extremely happy to take it back, but I decided that there was no other way to do what I want to do so I decided to live with the niggles.

The distortion I'm getting is *not* subtle. It sounds like serious clipping with a bad attack of farting thrown in for good measure!


I guess it depends on what Ir you have around. Or maybe there is a fixed version around but I don't have it?

Ian

Don't suppose you could post what ir gear you're using ? I'd be interested in seeing if any uses the NEC protocol.