do you blame him? If id produced such a fantastic musical thats been running for years i wouldnt want any old numpty to be voted to play the lead part & I for one dont trust the british votes (u just have to watch BB for that ) ...

but yes the argument being ALW shouldnt have made a show if he wanted full choice in who plays the part. So if the guys playing abit of chess, good on him im with him !!!

This is clearly a subjective matter and one about which we obviously disagree! Yes, Seamus may appear arrogant, that's probably what makes him hold the stage and make me want to listen. Last night, so many of the contestants were trying to prove their star quality by trying too hard (eg Lewis, Rob, Daniel), whereas Seamus didn't need to try and do that. I'd rather someone performs with confidence than apologetically.

Ben might be the dark horse. It was his best night last night and he might improve week on week. The GBP love to back the loser. Who ever wins the sing off does not get into the bottom two the following week as fans up the ante and vote to save them. On this premise Craig and Ben will be safe next week.

Despite being bemused that Seamus has gone, I agree that Ben emoted better during the singoff. However, even (most) of those who support ALW's decision last night have to agree that Ben isn't going to win this in a million years and isn't a strong enough personality to cope with a lead role in the West End at the moment.

ALW has saved people before based on their potential as opposed to purely on the merits of the singoff. On this occasion if he'd said Ben had acted better but being realistic, Seamus (whatever his perceived faults) was the stronger performer and likely to go further in the competition, I think a majority of people would see this as fair comment and a fair result.

Now we are down to two realistic candidates, Lee and Daniel, and a lot of (sorry) rather uninteresting cannon fodder to watch. This may well have been the right result for ALW as there was clearly a personality clash going on here, but I think it's a poor result for the viewing public.

Lewis looks right for the part, but think Daniel or Lee will get the role.

Seamus has a great voice but not great enough to justify his over inlated ego. He just could not listen to any advice and the GBP could take to such a big-headed person. He had enough warnings and he allowed his cockiness to continue. I ALW just decided he did not want another Helena scenario with him constantly having to save Seamus.

And interestingly, another poster likened Seamus to Belinda - and she was thrown out for her arrogance too.

I'm another person who thinks Seamus should've been saved. He gave consistently strong performances over the course of the show and Ben... didn't, to the extent that this was Ben's second time in the sing-off. Seamus should've been saved for that alone. Ben's pulling it out of the bag once during the sing-off doesn't mean ALW should ignore his patchy performances during the rest of the series.

In fact, in the first show ALW said he got rid of Antony because he was concerned he wouldn't be able to pull off eight performances a week. What happened to this concern when deciding between Seamus and Ben?

I still think it is the fact that Seamus was not liked by the GBP and that is why he had the least number of votes from the public. I also think that ALW saved Ben to save Seamus from being voted off again and again, he does not like his arrogance so he saw a chance to basically put Seamus in his place. He is 35 years old and still has a lot to learn, as he was not liked by a lot of the other Josephs and if that is the case, he would not be liked by West End performers that are going to be starring alongside him in the show and I cannot see ALW wanting that situation.

It should also be noted that at the end of the day ALW has to produce a musical that is going to make money and if the public does not like the person starring in the show then they are not going to pay money to watch it.

I do not think anyone on here has said Seamus is not talented when it comes to performing, but there is a whole lot more to being the star of a massive West End show than just being able to sing.

The thing is ALW needs the GBP to want to go and see the show, if they do not like the star for any reason then the show will fail and ALW does not do failure.

Seamus didn't have the least votes last week, or the week before, or for the first eviction this week. I actually think it is interesting (and a good thing) that the three evictions over the last two shows have had six different people up, and no-one up twice. The nearest thing to Helena is Ben, now up twice overall. The Seamus decision was very odd and I doubt any of the other judges would have made it. Maybe ALW really is pushing for his 'young, poppy' Joseph?
Last edited by Pasta : 30-04-2007 at 13:56

If so, on his head be it.

I think it's that journey thing that they love to promote on these kind of shows. :yawn: Ben has a lot to learn and they think that we will enjoy seeing it happen. He will be going soon- no question. I would imagine that Daniel, Lewis, Lee, Chris and Rob are the ones with a major vote and the rest have been scrabbling around for what is left.

I was as shocked as anyone on Saturday, but thinking about it, it does make a kind of sense to boot Seamus. Leaving aside the personality issues for a moment, it's probably fair to say that Seamus hadn't shown as much clear improvement as Ben. Chances are that with the amount of experience Seamus already has, there might not be that much more to come from him.

Personally I thought Seamus was a good hardworking performer, but he seemed (for me) unable to bridge the gap between himself and the audience. Ben while overall much weaker in many areas, for the first time showed the ability to do just that. Ben is clearly a patchy performer, but he has shown that there might be more to come from him, while Seamus might well have got as far as he was going to as a performer. Just a thought.

The thing is - rather than making a point with his exit song, like I think he was trying to do - he instead just proved what many thought of him with regards to arrogance, and probably made ALW more confident in his choice to boot him off.

Surely the exit song should be used as a last chance to show the public how well they can perform, almost in a "Here's what you could have won" kind of way - Instead, Seamus' song will probably cause quite a few people to remember him as an arrogant sod.

He may have been the oldest, but so far he's acted the least gracious and most immature out of the people kicked off. He's been upstaged by two teenagers half his age in terms of attitude and professionalism.

I would bet good money on it that John and Denise would have made the same decison. Didn't he also say in his reason that he took note of the audience reaction to Ben and also looked across at the panel

The problem is, they did it at the expense of someone who might actually have made a halfway decent Joseph. Instead, putting the personality issues aside, they've kicked out someone who was quite good in favour of someone who is very unlikely to make the final. And that is what I think is so unfair.


But I think he's also the one that's had to put up with the most as he's been given a rough ride on this show right from the very start. With his unfortunate first VT and constant references to it from then on, he's been portrayed the most negatively by a long way. Is it any wonder he got frustrated and cross?

Fully agree.

ALW also has the GBP thinking that he is heeding their decisions, by eliminating the one the cast lowest....while meanwhile he was just getting rid of an irksome thorn.

They shouldn't say who polled the lowest votes until after ALW has made his decision.

I agree with that, or just not at all! Its pretty demoralising for the bottom 2 anyway but at least they could have given themselves the benefit of the doubt that maybe they didnt get the lowest votes.

But on this show its like "well you're in the bottom 2 and guess what?, the public hate you more than the guy standing next to you" live on national tv!

The GBP had decided only the week before that they didn't like Chris B - the android with dentures. The difference is that they were being endlessly told how fabulous Chris was, and 'the Lord' had a hissy fit because, in his words, the "wrong decision" had been made.

Luckily, with all the "attitude" spin against Seamus, the right decision was made this week and ALW got rid of the person he wanted rid of.

That chomping sound you can hear is the sound of ALW having his cake and eating it.

My view (which is probably worthless, but hey!) is that ALW would really like a young Joseph this time. He went with the solid professional last time, probably because Maria is a really tough part, vocally and dramatically, and also a wodge of the profits have to go to other people (the Rogers, Hammerstein etc estates). This time, he's the composer (so he doesn't have to make as much money and can take more risks) and he knows from experience that Joseph is an ok part for someone who isn't an old musical theatre hand (pop stars, presenter and generic light entertainers have all done it). Having one of the 17-20 lads win would answer the critics who claim it's a fix, while also being a big story for the media in itself. he was annoyed in week 2 because he had to chose between two of the stronger lads, while this last week, having let Antony go, he certainly wasn't going to let Ben go over Seamus. (He'd probably rather have kept Seamus over Craig, but that wasn't the option.)

I think you are right. There's such a big hoo haa about Lee and Daniel being so brilliant (as far as their fans are concerned anyway) but for me the part of Joseph, especially as ALW wants it be to a more 'rock 'n' roll' one this time round, really is much more suited to a younger performer.

It's only my opinion and time will tell.

totally agree with pasta and gillypoots.I dont think they are looking for the greatest singer(i mean phillip schofield isnt nor is jason donovan)Its about stage presance and the likabilty factor as well.I think the panel's fav is lewis they are always telling us what a fantastic dancer he is to make sure we know,whats that all about?

If ALW keeps eliminating the genuinely talented ones instead of the bimbos he could live to regret it within weeks of the show opening.

I think he feels safe in the knowledge he has Lee and Daniel.