I'm continually shocked that people consider experience to be a detrimental factor. Lee and Daniel have both been around in the business for a while. So have a LOT of other people, some of whom are terrific in their own right. It takes more than talent to become a leading man. You have to have exposure in the right limelight, and that's what these guys are getting now.

If you look at their CVs, most of the contestants have had considerable theatre training and professional experience. Even Rob the "Builder" has a DEGREE in it, for crying out loud.

The goal is to get the best possible performer - not only someone who looks/sounds good, but who can also take the strain of 8 shows a week in a West End musical. You're just not going to get that from someone who has limited background.

Would you want your house built by an architect who had drawn some nice pictures in college? If I'm paying top dollar for theatre tickets, the performers had better be able to deliver.

Whilst I can see your point of view, by your reckoning those less experienced shouldn't even be taking part in this contest. If that were the case then the whole series in pointless in the first place.

As far as I understand it the whole point of this competition is to allow performers to learn and grow and even extend themselves to the level of being able to take the lead part. If it were just down to having a sham competition that ultimately ends up being just down to the most experienced then why bother at all?

Having, or taking a degree is nothing like being an actor or singer for a living, which is basically what Lee and Daniel have been doing, no matter how much it's played down on the programme. The experience you talk of with regard to the younger guys is far more amateur. For all that, I wouldn't write off the ability of one of these less experienced performers to be able step up to the plate and do an excellent job if they win.

I've just read that first post back to make sure I'm getting the correct interpretation of it. I don't think it's saying that the younger guys shouldn't be taking part. I'm reading it as saying that we, as viewers, should be under no illusions about their experience. That whilst it does vary from very little to West End understudy, the notion that a bricklayer with NO experience at all can do this is not true. Rob has some training - he didn't just waltz in from doing his dry walls.

I do, however, think that when push come to shove it's always going to come down to training and experience. It's what happened with Connie last year. There are people, and ALW has said this himself, that have bags of talent and need more training or are right for another role but not this one. Keith, for example, has been touted on many online boards as a great Benjamin. We also saw how he improved in terms of his diction with help from John Barrowman. Is he Joseph? Probably not. Doesn't mean he's not a highly promising performer and that he shouldn't have the opportunity to shine.

My problem with this subject is one of principle. ALW tried this project out with last year's Maria series, with great success. There are similarities to the other shows, like Pop Idol, Rivals, Fame Academy, X Factor etc. Having been in the music and entertainment business for many years myself, I know that for every person who gets work, there are many others, just as good, possibly better, who were not in the right place at the right time. There are not enough jobs for everyone. I see programmes like this as a great opportunity for those who have not got their foot in the door yet, (which means a creditable CV), to have a chance. Going back briefly to one of the X Factors - someone got into the finalists who had already been with a boy band which had folded, (Andy? brother of Lisa from Steps I think). I had the same feeling then, one of principle, having someone in this kind of show/contest/audition who has already been on the first rung of the ladder does not seem to be what these shows are all about.

You're quite right. I don't watch X Factor but recall I read about that. But I've not got a problem with the principle. I suppose that's because I went into the Maria series with a certain amount of cynicism or realism, depending on how you view these things, assuming that eventually somebody trained would end up with the role. I always thought it couldn't possibly be Joe Bloggs who works in Sainsburys and has never got any training at all that would end up as Joseph.

Now, the debate over whether someone such as Lee or Daniel should be auditioning is a different one. Why not though? Sod ego. If you want the part - you go for it, no matter what the circumstances. John Barrowman talked about this last year when there were complaints about the Maria series of a similar nature. He made the point that if anyone moaned, why didn't they audition? If you want to work in the profession you will be faced by a life of auditions. At least if you do this and don't get the part you end up with the best exposure possible i.e. prime time BBC1.

Personally I'm grateful they've had experience or studied.
It makes the show so much more entertaining, watching people who know what they're doing !

I've sooo had enough of the 'just pluck someone off the street and make loadsa money out them' shows. It's one dire song performance after another and we only see true quality towards the end. These Josephs are all good (some are mega talented) and have been from the very first show; its wonderful to see songs being peformed so well They've worked hard to be this good !

So I'm glad they were allowed in. I think there's a pretty balanced selection of talents in there and it's 5 weeks to final night. You know how fickle the public can be so who knows if the current frontrunners will keep it up. Hope so

I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my post above. I'm a musician, not a writer. Or, for that matter, someone who makes sense.

What I meant was that it's a bit disingenuous to keep harping on Daniel and Lee for having professional experience. If the rules stated that no one who had ever set foot on stage in a professional setting would be ineligible, that's one thing. Since that's not a rule, why are people getting so knotted up about it? And for that matter, if it were truly meant to be a show about getting Joe Blow onstage, then why would they allow anyone with high-level musical study enter?

Because if they don't, you've got no Joseph, no Maria.

It's one thing to pick a housepainter and let him rock out with a live karaoke band. It's entirely another to pick a West End lead actor/actress. Of course they have to have training. There are too many facets of the job to just walk in off the street and pull it off, and there's too much at stake for everyone else in the production.

I'm happy to see the guys get a chance to grow and stretch - and that goes for the "pros" as well. Everyone has a lot to learn. I wish they'd show more of that aspect and less of grannies and pub buddies.

I must also be clear about something here. I did mention the 'other' shows like X Factor, but this, and last year's show are in a different league, not in a snobbish way, just a different league, because these shows are looking for a person who can sing, dance, act and have learnt the rudiments of stagecraft. I would also like to take this oppotunity to mention that Connie Fisher was in my late mother's drama group in her childhood, and that the first thing she did when she went home after winning was to visit my Mother's grave. If you have Connie's CD, my Mother is Doreen Paton in the credits.

It's weird cause I think I'd swing the other way, in that on principle, I am not keen on someone with no experiencing winning (not that I am suggesting that any of the boys have no experience). It's like in X factor, when you have contestants who have never had any singing lessons or sang in choirs/gigs etc. To me I wonder how someone can claim to really want to be a singer, and then not make the effort to make it happen. I guess it bothers me when people use shows like this to get famous quickly (again not implying that any of the boys here fall into that category).


Exactly. Having experience is so important : a)As it means you know exactly what you are getting yourself into b)it means that you can handle that kind of environment and c) experience is the only way you can improve/develop yur skills.


That's the thing. I see Daniel and Lee growing and improving as well. In a way, it's harder for them because they started at a high standard, and therefore I think it's quite hard to maintain that standard, and also to show improvement (as it would be quite improvement). Compare that to some as Ben whose improvement is much more obvious.

Good points.
I couldn't agree more.

You're in good company here jcello lol

I agree. I am anti the grannie grabavote footage they ram down our throats. I'd much rather watch segments of the Josephs rehearsing any day.

I don't need the extra emotionals; I'd just like to watch them crafting their skills. And more loin cloth action please

Well said!

Actually it's the narrator who sings all the way through. Joseph's part whilst officially "the lead" is actually nowehre near as big as the Narrators

well yes I did realise that, but there is still far more singing for Joseph than there is for Maria. When I meant singing all the way through I meant there is no dialogue, just songs.

If you read their profiles, none of these guys has exactly wandered in off the street and thinks they can sing a bit.

Lee and Daniel may have more experience but personally I think Lee is the best thing that has hit my TV screen in a very long time, and I for one ain't complaining!!

Do you think they are concerned that it was becoming a two horse race so early, so are trying to "level the playing field" in favour of the weaker candidates with the song choices and selective criticism.

I think Zoe's comments about Lee last night were very unjustified.- and I'm a Daniel fan through and through.

Keith made a lovely job of his song but Lee or Daniel could have done as well if not better with feeling.

Keith can sing any song, last week he had Crocodile Rock which he did well, he can sing musical theatre songs as good as Lee and Daniel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODReoyDtHUA

Yes, I really think Lee has the part in the bag! though last night Keith was ace. I can't see Daniel winning, as ALW said he lacks charisma. I believe the show is just for publicity and getting bums on seats...but what do I know, it is a very good show and nice to see young talent.

If we are looking for a raw amateur then the programme needs to be more in the Musicality format (stars for one night only) that C4 used and even then some of the winners had had considerable professional training.

Personally I'm not blown away by any of the Josephs but it isn't that exciting a role anyway. The main prize for this and last year's programme may be the lead role, but it's interesting to see how well the other contestants do off the back of it as certainly a few of the girls' careers had a boost. I thought Aoife was pathetic last year, yet she managed to get a stint as Roxy in Chicago that she would not have had a hope in hell of getting without being "Irish Maria".

Lee is definitely more polished than the other boys but I find him terribly smug. Daniel for me is a bit hit and miss, thought he was OK last night, that is after I had stopped laughing at him turning a McFly song into a show tune. Lewis and Ben are dreadful, would struggle to get past the new members auditions for my local amateur group based on some of their performances. I thought Keith was great last night but he's no Joseph and Craig is just blah. Who have I forgotten? Oh yes Rob the Builder. Pharoah in an amateur production maybe but West End Joseph? Never.

Then again, while I write this I am watching T4's "Musicool" and it is just awful.

couldnt have put it better myself, good post !

Based on last night's performance I don't think it is any longer a two horse race!

None of them were brilliant and it was a bad week all round although it was nice to see Ben and Craig improving and may yet catch up. Personally the only one who has star quality is Ben but I do worry about his vocals which can be a bit hit or miss but then I understand he is a classically trained singer and must be hard to convert to pop

I have just said on another thread, it not a two horse race any more, in fact Ben is really back! and Keith Could be Joseph and I would currently give a split decision between Keith and Daniel with Ben very close. For me Lee has gone way back now and is well out of the top 3

I don't care what their background!

if they can sing, act, dance and hold a stage for 2 hours yes of course they should have been allowed to enter!

it's not impossible that one of the other's could be better than them in one way or another and therefore have equal chance of becoming joseph!

After last night I agree with the other posters and think it is less of a two-way race than before....

Keith was amazing last night. I know it is only one performance but if he does as well next week.....then he could get into the final and maybe win!

Couldn't agree more - I made a similar point on another thread.