I know we've had a revision of the disk size and the introduction of the Black and White versions but it does seem extraordinary that two years from launch in the UK we are essentially still on the same version of the machine.

Are Topfield developing any new models for the UK market? Looking at the website it would appear that there's nothing new at present.

It's a superb product.

There's work being done to add Freeview Playback; beyond that I don't have any specific information.

I would hope that at some stage we'll seen an equivalent of the TF6000, with wireless or ethernet connectivity, but they're not going to launch a UK specific model without MHEG, in my view - it wouldn't get a digital tick mark.

New models elsewhere have focusssed on HD, like the 7000 PVR in Australia and the 7700 receivers; I doubt we'd get a 7000 series PVR here, because that's MPEG2 HD, and so only really any use in the Australian market.

The 7700 receivers have MPEG4/HD, but there aren't any PVR models yet; and in any event the market for those would be pretty small - at least until the BBC Freesat proposition is up and running.

I don't know how well things like the 6000 have sold elsewhere, if there is a real market for the network access built in. That may well determine whether or not they decide to do one for the UK.

I think, from their point of view, any new UK model would just be tinkering round the edges, like adding the network access, or the better front panel displays of the masterpiece and TF5500 models, or the HDMI port that's on one of the Finnish variants.

Until Freesat is up and running, breaking the Sky box stranglehold, or there is a committment to HD on terrestrial, I'm not sure those little changes to the box would generate enough additional sales to make it worth the effort, even just of adding the MHEG code to one of the existing boxes.

HDMI - not much benefit for an SD box; most people have limited HDMI ports on their TVs, with better quality sources than Freeview to feed into it.

Front panel display/cosmetics - again, a pretty minor benefit. And the same, I think, is true of networking. Sure, some people buy the Toppy because of the potential for networking it, but I suspect the number of people who actually use the connection regularly is very small.

Are there any other big improvements that couldn't come from updating the firmware? I'm not sure that there are.

We're probably in a bit of a limbo situation in the UK as far as manufacturers are concerned; just before switchoff, no clear signs of what will happen about HD on terrestrial, and the Freesat proposition only just given the go-ahead.

Still, I shall see if I can find out any interesting news when I have the time.

Nigel.

I'm fully intending to go for Freesat when it comes out. Is it likely that Topfield will come up with something to go with it?

The only drawback as far as Freesat is concerned for me at the moment is the loss of the fabulous Toppy...

I've told the guys at the importers that there's been a fair few people expressing interest in a model for Freesat. I've not pressed them on an answer yet, because I know they're busy working on getting the TF5810 ready for release, but I'll bring it up again in the new year.

This is becoming something of a worry for me too. I'd rather lose a limb.

Glen.

Great stuff - many thanks for that Nigel.

J

Is there any word on this Nigel?

I'll be seeing the guys from Turbosat next week, so I'll raise it in person then. At the moment, most effort has been centred on making the 5810 work better

Maybe you should tell that to some people on your forum too!

Glen.

Great stuff - thanks. What did they say?

I'm holding off getting freesat until there's a decent PVR available. I've been kind of spoilt with the Toppy, so the quality bar is set high!

I am also waiting for a Topfield that will do FreeSat.

How likely is it that we will get one?

David

At the moment, it's not high up on the list, is my distinct impression - the main focus first is getting the present models to behave properly with the Freeview Playback update. I didn't see all the people I hoped to last time I saw Turbosat, so I may get a little more at my next meeting, but I don't think anyone should be holding their breath right now.

It's unlikely anyone else will be getting a PVR out before the Humax, and that is not coming until autumn at the earlier, as far as I gather.

Anyone managed to get ITV HD on a Topfield HDPVR 7710 if so how?

Topfield really need to sort out the current machine, before they move on to a new one. Maybe the current machine is just beyond redemption, and the problems may be hardware, rather than software. But this really is a sordid, hateful peice of kit, that isn't suitable for sale, and can only be made usable if the user has the ability to download third party updates. We hate it every time we pick up the remote to use this machine.

No more Topfield in this house.

It's not a hardware issue - the hardware is pretty much the same as the older model. It's purely a software one.

There will be a new firmware along before too long, thankfully. In the meantime, you really should apply the unnofficial update pack, which makes things much more tolerable.

We have, although we shouldn't have to do that. It should work without it.


But even with Mystuff, this is a miserable horrible third-rate piece of kit.

Thanks Nigel - good to know. I don't see any point in spending on HD equipment till I can record it. I'll stick with what I've got for now. We ae a very happy household with our Toppy.

Which "current" machine are you talking about though? The 5800 or the 5810?

God's teeth! WTF is wrong with them? I'm a CI professional, been selling and installing Toppys for as long as the 5800 has been out. We hardly ever get problems, skyHD is far more problematic. I think you need to get a firm grip on reality, find out what the opposition is like before labelling something 'miserable, horrible, third rate'. If I were turbosat staff, I'd have threatend legal action over that one.

Well, I don't use SkyHD, so I wasn't comparing it with that. I do use other PVRs, so I don't know why you assume I can't compare it with others. The Humax is far and away better than the Topfield, and it's also cheaper. But even without the price difference, the Humax is a better buy. I've also used the Digifusion, which is better than the Topfield. So in my opinion, the Topfield is behind the Humax and the Digifusion, so it comes third in my sample of three, and so in my opinion, it's third rate.

The only way this machine can be made to work properly is to download third party TAPs. I don't see people in here are running vanilla Topfields, and so I don't think the Topfield is fit for sale as it stands. No one who has used our Topfield has anything good to say about it. It's awful. Topfield need to do something drastic to make the unit work properly out of the box, and it really isn't good enough to sit back and leave it to third parties to do that.

I do not use taps, nor do my customers. All appear to be really pleased. I use the 5800 as it has component video out, ie switchable in good quality with an AV amp, though I am now specifying the 5810 to use HDMI. Sky is the market leader in PVRs, and I can assure you it's no better than the 5800 in terms of reliability, though it has a few extra features.

You may look on Sky as the market leader in PVRs, (you originally referred to SkyHD), but Sky sell the PVR as part of a programme package, and so it isn't sold on it's own merits.


You can talk about HDMI connections and AV amps, but what has that got to do with this issue? I am saying the Topfield is a poor PVR based on it's performance, speed, EPG, noise and reliability. It often doesn't respond when a button is pressed. It doesn't auto-pad (basic PVR technology). The EPG is like something out of a children's toy. I'm not interested in AV amps, and I would suggest most users are not interested in them either. They want a PVR that they can use. Not a hobby PVR.

I moved from a Humax PVR to a Topfield and was happy to run it vanilla for over a year before I got round to applying any customisation (apart from the Power Restore patch). The Humax UI is clunky by comparison and the Digifusion even worse than the Humax IMHO. But one show-stopper for me is the bloody noisy fans these other two makes use and the Digifusion does not (did not, does it still not?) spin down its hard disk in stand-by. Before you say, that is why I will be not be getting a newer Topfield nor will I be putting the Freeview+ firmware on my existing Topfields as they have changed the way they handle stand-by.

A customised Topfield is far and away several cuts above anything else I have tried. I cannot comment on Sky+ except to that I do not like that you cannot restrict it down to just show the channels you are really interested in.

Well from that pointless diatribe, it's plain to me you have little idea bout these things, Topfield are better off without you, you'd be a nightmare client for any CI professional, perpetually finding fault where none realistically exists. Good luck with other PVRs, and stop running down a product too complicated for you to use.

Oh how I wish I had made the point as well as you have in that one line. How can it be good to have a PVR that's too complicated? (Not that it is complicated). For your information, I am in television production and can handle equipment you haven't even dreamed of.


Let's look at the points I made above, and explore the complications you say I am having trouble coping with:


The Topfield often doesn't respond to remote commands - In what way is that complicated?


The Topfield has an EPG like something from a child's toy - What's complicated about that?


The Topfield is noisy - In what way does my alledged lack of ability to control with this machine's complexities make the machine noisy?

The Topfield doesn't have auto-padding - How is that complicated?


No, it is in fact Topfield who seem unable to deal with the complexities of providing a PVR that can be used straight from the box.