This item on Digital Spy:-

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcas...d-the-vcr.html

What does the writer think?

'With an analogue VCR you are able to record a different TV channel to the one being watched because they are fitted with two analogue tuners.'

You can record one channel whilst recording another because the aerial that goes through the TV and VCR carried all your transmitters analogue channels - the VCR doesn't have two tuners.

Cheers, daveac

Glad i'm not the only one who noticed that, wonder how long it'll be until they correct the article .

Never have i known of a VCR that has two analogue tuners.

Amstrad "double-decker" VHS I think had 2 analogue tuners inside. Record 2 different analogue channels (on 2 different vhs tapes) at the same time.

Dave

Getting back to the main point, it does surely indicate as many of us have been saying for some significant time that a lot of people post DSO will be in for a shock to find out they are not "fully" digital in their home. Recording and Multiroom setups are both issue that must be highlighted much more in 2007.

I fear so many people are running set top aerials for 2nd and 3rd tv's and are suffering low qulaity analogue, that once the area goes into DSO, that setup will no longer pickup anything. For example I know somone with a 2nd set in a bedroom with a set top aerial that only provides 1 analogue channel which is of useable quality (Ch4).

I also know people with just a basic Sky satellite digi box hooked up to a VHS or analogue DVD recorder. The hassle they go through to record from the digi box is a nightmare.

Dave

As I understand it the terrestrial digital signals currently are at a low power to avoid interfering with the analogue broadcasts, and when analogue is turned off the digital power will be increased to 'analogue size'. So things will be the same as regards aerials (though some new receiving devices may be needed).

my point is that if your analogue is Sh8t now, even after DTT is improved, the reception of that improved DTT serivice will be ify at best.

I think a lot of people are just guessing and relying on the fact that DTT will be expanded/improved to compensate for their inferior aerial/aerial setup. A recent Whitehaven PDF was very clear on this - if your analogue is poor now, then even after the DTT upgrade, reception of the DTT service is likely to be a problem.

Furthermore, concerns over people's aerials/setups are highlighted in this recent BBC report. Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dorset/content/..._feature.shtml -note the full article part way down on a bold link. There must be thousands of people in just West Dorset which have reception issues with analogue now due to poor aerial/setup and it follows that when their area goes into DSO 2009, they will suffer problems with the new upgraded DTT service.

What I have realised is that if you take a group of 10,000 homes, you might have 1,000 of those homes with reception issue. Thats quite a low %, but once you scale that up for the entire UK the number of people with reception problems on analogue now (and therefore with DTT after DSO) will be a LOT! I hope the proposed helpline team have lots of lines and lots of members to speak to all those people at DSO.

Dave

The two analogue tuners bit has been edited.

ummm, what's the problem?

anyone with a normal SkyDigiBox, with no ariel, already knows they can only record one channel!

anyone with sky+ or skyhd already have the functions to multi-record ..... then there's those with PVR's .....

and most people (including me) that didn't record off the ariel signal (even off cable) ..... it won't make the slightest difference

it's only those WITHOUT digital tv will miss out ..... THAT'S the jist of the argument!

Not sure what argument you are refering to but unfortunately there are still millions who do only have analogue equipment. It is in any event not just those without digital TV who are confused.

People with IDTVs and Sky boxes etc are constantly on the forums asking why their non digital tuner DVDR or VCRs cannot pick up the digital channels and that is from people who are bothering to convert at all and have the interest to come and ask questions.

There is a common misconception that getting one piece of equipment with a digital tuner somehow endows all their kit with the ability to recieve digital and therefore replicate what an analogue VCR and an analogue TV could do.

I suspect the recording problem; particularly the record one thing while watching another will turn out to cause more confusion and anguish than basic digital reception issues unless some heavy public information resources address the issues soon.

The thread title made me think for a moment that this was about Buggles' come back single!

From the article:

A DVR (Digital Video Recorder) is by definition digital, so there's no reason it should cease to function after DSO. Does he mean DVDR?


As here, people who mention this option often fail to mention that this will mean setting a timer on both the digibox and the recorder, or else leaving the digibox on and tuned to the right channel. Either way, it's less convenient or flexible than what people have now or would have if they bought a recorder with built-in digital receiver.

I think this is the dreaded terminology again! Hard disk recorders are DVRs as well as DVD recorders, together with RAM memory recorders (if they existed). It refers to the recording medium, not the tuner for the incoming signal. Its tuner may be analogue or digital so the article is correct in saying that a DVR might not have "that functionality", i.e. a digital tuner. Conversely, if it was possible to buy a VCR with an internal digital tuner, it would still be an analogue video recorder!

A DTR is specifically a Digital TV recorder, i.e. one that has a digital tuner. Also known as PVRs.

I've hardly ever seen DVR used as anything other than a synonym for PVR. (Try Googling "define: DVR".)

Both terms are awful. DVR is ambiguous in the way you've pointed out. PVR could mean almost anything. To me "personal" implies something portable (as in "personal stereo").


I'm not familiar with the term DTR. If defined as here, they include VCRs and DVDRs with digital tuners, not just PVRs. Or are you defining PVR to include these too!

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_video_recorder):

"A digital video recorder (DVR) (or personal video recorder (PVR)) is a device that records video without videotape to a hard drive-based digital storage medium. "

It suggests as you say that DVR and PVR are synonymous, however we normally mean a PVR has its own digital tuner and records the bitstream directly, but this is not specified in that definition.

Also - "Ampex released the first commercial hard disk video recorder in 1967. " - so a DVR doesn't necessarily have to have a digital tuner as digital TV wasn't around then! So DVTR and PVR might be synonymous, but not in the way we've been using the term PVR.


The Personal bit is meaningless in the way we've used it. Many people say that the only PVR has been the Tivo, it's Personal in the sense that it can tailor its recordings to suit your viewing habits.


Freeview call them DTRs - http://www.freeview.co.uk/products - but "we" have always known them as PVRs.


God knows! Confused...

I'm not giving any definitive statement of what means what, I was just pointing out that there are indeed different definitions - the linked article was using the term DVR to mean one thing, but you're assuming it to mean something else.

I think DVR is indeed intended to mean a hard-disk recorder (or one that records onto any other digital medium) but does not necessarily have to have a digital tuner, therefore a DVR will only become obsolete after DSO if it doesn't have one. If it's also synonymous with PVR, then PVRs don't have to have a digital tuner, and we've been using the term wrongly! (They should be DTRs? As Freeview calls them.)

These definitions make sense, but they're at odds with how we've used them up to now:

DVR : hard disk recorder (remember that there are standalone recorders for use with CCTV systems etc too, not just TV recorders)
DVDR: DVD recorder.
DVDR/HDD: DVD recorder with built-in DVR
DTR: DVR with built-in (dual?) digital tuner that records the broadcast bitstream directly rather than the resulting video signal
PVR: DVR (or DTR) that can learn your viewing habits

DVDR or DVDR/HDD with built-in digital tuner are hybrids - they are DTRs combined with DVDR/HDDs, but at the moment only have a single digital tuner.

PS. Note that one of the results returned by the Google search contradicts what the Wikipedia entry says!

From Samsung: "Digital video recorder. A device that lets you record digital TV shows for later viewing".

That specifically says that it records *digital* TV. Whereas the Wikipedia entry defines DVR as recording analogue *or* digital - "In the case of a satellite or cable set-top box there is no encoding necessary in the DVR, as the satellite signal is already a digitally encoded MPEG stream. ". A DVR that records analogue therefore has to convert it to digital first,. but it nevertheless is able to record from analogue sources.

Oh - a - oh !

You were the first one !!

I don't think it did, that was why it was an entirely pointless device when compared to 2 vcrs connected to each other.

analogue and hard disc - my Sis says they bought one (a Dawwoo I think, last year). It doesnt include DTT (Freeview), only the basic 5 channels on analogue. And the reason they didnt get the version with in built digital tuner (yes, they have excellent DTT/Freeview where they live)....price. Without Freeview, it was half the price of the model with Freeview.

Dave