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Week 8 - Katie's cunning plan? |
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#51 |
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I have to say that Sir Alan is certainly handling some of these face to face experiences badly - in that Katies' presentation was way better than Jadine's in every way. He'd probably made up his mind about the winners and losers by then, but he should give credit where it's due. He also didn't take account of the dissent Ghazal was forced to work with - and although I think that on performance and potential it was right that Ghazal was fired last night, his reasoning and his assessment of the situation was misjudged.
Any Project Manager from now on is going to be in the firing line. Jadine was fortunate to have Simon in her team last night - Tre's negativity without Simon's talent and vision could easily have seen her off... |
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#52 |
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maybe Ghazel, who was led to belive her and Katie were now "friends", took Katie into the boardroom for back up.
However this plan backfired, as she failed to see Katie's blatent two facedness and game playing and that she would never stick up for anyone other than herself... ![]() That did backfire but I think Ghazal took her in not so much as backup but because she was more scared of what Kristina would have said. The right person was fired. |
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#53 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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.. the ad hominem attacks on Katie were dredful, and I speak as someone who doesn't like her.
I think her problem is that her odious comments are overshadowing her skills - in previous tasks she has been shown to be persuasive and positive with the task at hand (esp. last week's item gathering task where, for example, she very effectively persuaded a few shop sellers to give huge discounts - she certainly showed that she can be charming! note, she was paired up with Kristina where they made a formidable duo). This week's BBC1 show was very light on Katie's vile asides, and is in marked contrast to previous episodes. My thought was Katie is either toning down her thoughts or the show producers are concerned about pushing forward a hate figure (perhaps they feel they have a duty of care?). Of course there may be other equally valid reasons. ![]() Which brings me to: Quote:
If you've only just started watching the series then I can understand why you don't get the problem people have with Katie. Generally she's rude and condescending (to the point of being dismissive). Maybe that's good in a business environment (I don't know) but it put's peoples backs up.
Of course, it's possible I'll think differently once I've watched more; but but by now I've read a fair number of comments in this forum from people who have been watching longer and whose views don't seem very different from mine. |
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#54 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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It will be interesting to see Katie's demeanour in the next task and any subsequent tasks she may be involved with. It looks like she has lost all her allies so may not be so vicious as previously.
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#55 |
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SAS has not wished physical harm on people, Katie has and that is the lowest of the low Quote:
From what you say above ("persuasive and positive with the task at hand") it sounds like earlier episodes have shown some positive qualities. And if last night's BBC 2 show is anything to go by, they are not at all worried about pushing forward a hate figure. Reading around in this forum, I've yet to see anything specific, such as a direct quote of something Katie said, that was actually vile. So I'm not convinced that last night's show was showing Katie in a misleadingly positive way.
Which brings me to: But people don't seem to mind when Sir Alan is rude and condescending, and he's much more so than anything I've seen from Katie. The other candidates also seem rude and condescending, though most of it was behind backs last night. Katie doesn't stand out as exceptionally bad. Nor did she seem especially twisty or scheming. A fair number of the others seemed worse there. Yet it was Katie's performance that somehow prompted this thread. Of course, it's possible I'll think differently once I've watched more; but but by now I've read a fair number of comments in this forum from people who have been watching longer and whose views don't seem very different from mine. |
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#56 |
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SAS has not wished physical harm on people, Katie has and that is the lowest of the low
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#57 |
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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I have to say that Sir Alan is certainly handling some of these face to face experiences badly - in that Katies' presentation was way better than Jadine's in every way. He'd probably made up his mind about the winners and losers by then, but he should give credit where it's due. He also didn't take account of the dissent Ghazal was forced to work with - and although I think that on performance and potential it was right that Ghazal was fired last night, his reasoning and his assessment of the situation was misjudged.
Any Project Manager from now on is going to be in the firing line. Jadine was fortunate to have Simon in her team last night - Tre's negativity without Simon's talent and vision could easily have seen her off... It's funny how 2 people's perceptions can differ so widely. I agree, to a certain extent that Katie's presentation was better per se, in that she was more enthusiastic; however, for the product they were selling, Jadine's slight air of aloofness and 'coolness' was far better placed to represent the product they were selling - and obviously paid off. Katie's 'let me introduce you to Jay' was a little embarrassing and misplaced IMHO. As for Ghazal being faced with 'dissent' well I didn't see that at all. I saw a woman floundering hopelessly out of her depth who was so insecure that any better ideas (which was all of them) were immediately dismissed. I do agree that Naomi and Kristina could have handled it better and been more tactful instead of sniggering like a couple of schoolgirls, but ultimately, Ghazal was incredibly weak both in terms of leadership and vision. Katie and Naomi did try and point out that the 'pun' in the poster was poor, and that the idea of changing from music to image was naff but she was having none of it. I've worked for people with Ghazal's personality type before and their own weaknesses and inadequacies end up being reflected in their workforce; they are so afraid of recrimination that the only thing they can do is become a 'wall' and refuse to listen to another's viewpoint. Tre, for all his bluster, is a bloody good businessman. He was the one who argued about a share of the profits rather than a percentage of each sale - good old fashioned business acumen. He needs to tone down his swearing and negativity just as Katie needs to stop all the schoolgirl retorts about her opponents and get on with the job at hand. Still, probably wouldn't be quite so entertaining without both these components
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#58 |
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But people don't seem to mind when Sir Alan is rude and condescending, and he's much more so than anything I've seen from Katie. The other candidates also seem rude and condescending, though most of it was behind backs last night. Katie doesn't stand out as exceptionally bad. Nor did she seem especially twisty or scheming. A fair number of the others seemed worse there. Yet it was Katie's performance that somehow prompted this thread.
Of course, it's possible I'll think differently once I've watched more; but but by now I've read a fair number of comments in this forum from people who have been watching longer and whose views don't seem very different from mine. |
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#59 |
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Some people always prefer the most controversial person, if only because nobody else likes them
![]() If Katie did have a cunning plan then all I can say is, its backfiring very badly because everyone else in there can see right through it. Ghazal went on and on about nobody else coming up with better ideas, but she kept announcing it was going to be done her way and that was that. She shut the door herself, then tried to blame the other two. You would think its obvious that Katie's judgement is not to be trusted after the whole cheese to France disaster, which she fully supported. But no. |
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#60 |
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That's a different point; I doubt she was serious; and saying it w/o being serious is very far from being the lowest of the low.
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#61 |
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If I can't 'assume' that she behaves with more vitriol in the house than we've seen in televised snippets, how come you can 'doubt' whether statements she's made - which you in fact haven't seen - are serious or otherwise??
They're very different cases. One's about how a show is edited and how that relates to reality. The other is an opinion about what someone said.
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#62 |
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So, to clarify, your opinion of Katie is based on one episode and the people on the forum that you agree with. :shrug: Plenty of other people have a different opinion based on watching the whole series. I quite liked her to begin with: I thought she was quite a strong, forceful character: but then she kind of degenerated into this semi-viscious snob.
The majority of people on this forum who have seen every episode despise Katie now. Only a few people still like her but at least their opinion is more credible as they have watched the series. To come in and start arguing with everyone and saying how Katie isn't as bad as we have seen - purely based on ONE episode - is really ridiculous. |
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#63 |
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Some people always prefer the most controversial person, if only because nobody else likes them
![]() But I prefer it when the ones I like are popular (such as Myleene in I'm a Celeb). |
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#64 |
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So, to clarify, your opinion of Katie is based on one episode and the people on the forum that you agree with. :shrug: Plenty of other people have a different opinion based on watching the whole series. I quite liked her to begin with: I thought she was quite a strong, forceful character: but then she kind of degenerated into this semi-viscious snob.
My opinion - which I have a perfect right to state, btw - is based on watching for one week plus reading a large number of forum comments. The case against Katie looks surprisingly weak (if this forum's comments are any guide) and partly based on prejudice against her as middle-class, posh, or similar. Of course it's possible I'd have a different opinion of Katie if I'd watched more shows. But the people who disagree with me about Katie also disagree about last night's show. So I have no reason to believe we're be in agreement about earlier shows! The evidence is that we just see things differently, so far as The Apprentice is concerned. Meanwhile, people whose views about last night's show make the most sense to me also seem to have an overall view of Katie that's similar to mine. That suggests that if I'd watched as much as they have, my views would still be pretty close to what they are now. That could be wrong - as future weeks may show. But we're not required to hold back from stating opinions here until we're certain! |
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#65 |
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Some people always prefer the most controversial person, if only because nobody else likes them
![]() If Katie did have a cunning plan then all I can say is, its backfiring very badly because everyone else in there can see right through it. Ghazal went on and on about nobody else coming up with better ideas, but she kept announcing it was going to be done her way and that was that. She shut the door herself, then tried to blame the other two. You would think its obvious that Katie's judgement is not to be trusted after the whole cheese to France disaster, which she fully supported. But no. |
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#66 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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You're distorting rather than clarifying.
My opinion - which I have a perfect right to state, btw - is based on watching for one week plus reading a large number of forum comments. The case against Katie looks surprisingly weak (if this forum's comments are any guide) and partly based on prejudice against her as middle-class, posh, or similar. Of course it's possible I'd have a different opinion of Katie if I'd watched more shows. But the people who disagree with me about Katie also disagree about last night's show. So I have no reason to believe we're be in agreement about earlier shows! The evidence is that we just see things differently, so far as The Apprentice is concerned. Meanwhile, people whose views about last night's show make the most sense to me also seem to have an overall view of Katie that's similar to mine. That suggests that if I'd watched as much as they have, my views would still be pretty close to what they are now. That could be wrong - as future weeks may show. But we're not required to hold back from stating opinions here until we're certain! |
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#67 |
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You're distorting rather than clarifying.
My opinion - which I have a perfect right to state, btw - is based on watching for one week plus reading a large number of forum comments. The case against Katie looks surprisingly weak (if this forum's comments are any guide) and partly based on prejudice against her as middle-class, posh, or similar. Of course it's possible I'd have a different opinion of Katie if I'd watched more shows. But the people who disagree with me about Katie also disagree about last night's show. So I have no reason to believe we're be in agreement about earlier shows! The evidence is that we just see things differently, so far as The Apprentice is concerned. I don't particularly dislike her - certainly not as an individual - and I can only judge on what the BBC allows me to see - but she has shown herself to be manipulative, two faced, disloyal and on several occasions has misrepresented the facts to others. You are as you say, entitled to your opinion, but don't be surprised when others who have watched the woman for many weeks, don't agree with your assessment. |
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#68 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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You're distorting rather than clarifying.
My opinion - which I have a perfect right to state, btw - is based on watching for one week plus reading a large number of forum comments. The case against Katie looks surprisingly weak (if this forum's comments are any guide) and partly based on prejudice against her as middle-class, posh, or similar. Of course it's possible I'd have a different opinion of Katie if I'd watched more shows. But the people who disagree with me about Katie also disagree about last night's show. So I have no reason to believe we're be in agreement about earlier shows! The evidence is that we just see things differently, so far as The Apprentice is concerned. Meanwhile, people whose views about last night's show make the most sense to me also seem to have an overall view of Katie that's similar to mine. That suggests that if I'd watched as much as they have, my views would still be pretty close to what they are now. That could be wrong - as future weeks may show. But we're not required to hold back from stating opinions here until we're certain! I don't think I distorted what you said. And I never said you couldn't have an opinion. You agree with the people that like Katie . . . it's no big deal.
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#69 |
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The reason that some may disagree with you about last nights programme is probably because their opinion of Katie is informed by what she's shown us of herself in the past, added to her behaviour last night.
I don't particularly dislike her - certainly not as an individual - and I can only judge on what the BBC allows me to see - but she has shown herself to be manipulative, two faced, disloyal and on several occasions has misrepresented the facts to others. You are as you say, entitled to your opinion, but don't be surprised when others who have watched the woman for many weeks, don't agree with your assessment. I approve of this post.
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#70 |
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.. how many times has Katie been on a winning and losing side so far? Thanks!
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#71 |
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Nah, I don't buy it.
Fair enough she got herself on side the project manager but that's hardly cunning is it? I don't think she deliberately sabotaged the task, she was just very bad at it. Her pitch in particular was dreadful. I don't believe she does that for a living. |
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#72 |
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I approve of this post.
![]() all any of us can do!
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#73 |
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Katie doesn't seem vile, just irritating in a smug and smooth way.
Ghazal (sp?) was exposed - she had 2 people on the team who could have made them winners, but due to poor management/leadership, she didn't get them on board. she didn't come up with better ideas herself and so SAS took the view that she couldn't control strong people with their own agendas. she was probably a bit naive and didn't appreciate that the leader is the first head considered for the chop when the team fails. she was exposed and didn't do enough to overcome being the losing team leader. |
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#74 |
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To clarify
I don't think I distorted what you said.... |
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#75 |
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The reason that some may disagree with you about last nights programme is probably because their opinion of Katie is informed by what she's shown us of herself in the past, added to her behaviour last night.
Besides, some people whose opinion is informed by the past nonetheless have views much like mine. So it doesn't look like the key difference can be whether views are informed by past shows or not. Quote:
I don't particularly dislike her - certainly not as an individual - and I can only judge on what the BBC allows me to see - but she has shown herself to be manipulative, two faced, disloyal and on several occasions has misrepresented the facts to others.
That sounds much like some of the others.Quote:
You are as you say, entitled to your opinion, but don't be surprised when others who have watched the woman for many weeks, don't agree with your assessment.
As I've said, others who've watched for many weeks don't have views all that different from mine; and, reading this forum, it again and again looks like people are over-reacting to things that don't actually show her to be as bad as is claimed.
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They're very different cases. One's about how a show is edited and how that relates to reality. The other is an opinion about what someone said.