Then why have ANY non-professionals in the show at all at any stage?

What you are missing is that you can't have it BOTH ways and be fair.

So you either have an amateur show where professionals are banned or a show where Westend professionals compete to gain the title.

Then of course there is the third option which is the one they went with: Choose a Westend artist for the part and then con the public into thinking that the others stood a chance when they didn't and take their money and get free advertising.

It's clever: Run a totally unfair show by mixing pros and non-pros and get free BBC advertising for the bloke you have already picked, eliminated all opposition and gave an unfair advantage to by the very fact that they have had Westend appearances.

I mean hay! The unfairness can't even be seen by the majority of you so it works doesn't it?

You could only call Lee a ringer if his previous experience was being kept from the viewers, which it isn't, I haven't watched every show and nor have I particularly followed these boards, but I'm well aware Lee has performed as an understudy in the West End, I'm also fully aware Daniel had some form of training and previous experience.

Personally if I want to watch a load of untrained amatures I'll go down my local open mike session at the pub, or watch Grease is the Word. They're casting a West End production, of course they want people who can actually do the show, and those with training and experience will be better suited. They're also looking to launch a new 'name', which is why John Barrowman, or any other well known name, wouldn't be taking part.

Of course ALW is getting masses of free publicity, of course he has in mind who he wants, and who he doesn't and of course some have previous experience, I can't see why you find this so objectionable, the whole premis of the show is to generate publicity and guarantee a hit for both the Beeb now and ALW when Joseph starts.

If you want to see a bunch of not very good singers who lack the training to go on the West End stage watch the car crash that is Grease, personally I'd rather watch a bunch of talented, but unknown, singers who have the skill, training and charisma to produce entertaining and engaging performances.

Wow, there's quite a lot of attitude there Plextor! (Not that I would know anything, living in my little unfair world ). I'm not trying to shut you up or get rid of you, but seriously, I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve here. Even if every single person on this board agreed with you, it wouldn't change anything. You object to the fact that professionals are allowed on the show, so you can either:
a. boycott the show (but you didn't like this suggestion)
or
b. Make your feelings known to someone who has some kind of power in the BBC, maybe they will take your opinions on board. It is possible that one or two posters here have some kind of contacts within the powers that be, I know I don't (unfortunately).

As I've stated before, I've no problems with professionals entering. I haven't really said why, because I would just be repeating what other posters have said, but basically it boils down to the fact that it is really difficult to get west end leads, no matter how good you are and also, every contestant who made it to the top 12 had some kind of professional training. Where are you going to draw the line here?

You are not of this opinion, fine, we'll have to agree to disagree

And just as an afterthought, I am a big Lee fan, but I am not at all of the opinion that he is ALW's chosen Joseph. I think that ALW would much prefer one of the younger lads in the role (this, in my opinion, is his loss)

This is a great idea!

Well you are a really happy soul aren't you? The show is supposed to be entertainment - why get so het up over something you have no control over. I do not really care who wins - but I shall be happy if Lee does - I just enjoy watching it along with 'GRease'. You seem to have taken a personal dislike to Lee - do you know him? - you think you know everything else about the show & the workings of ALW's mind & seem to like telling everyone what to do. You can have negative comments but prepared to listen to others positive ones. It is not compulsary viewing - I am sure you know where the 'off' switch is - use it!!!!

Experience does not equal talent.
Talent equals talent.
It's hardly rocket science

In a contest between yourself and Barrowman, well, we'll have to take your word for it that Barrowman would win, because we have no way of knowing how good you are at singing, acting, dancing and performing in general. For all we know, you could could be worse than Craig (if that's even possible )...so then obviously a professional like Barrowman would win. On the other hand, you could be vocally flawless and put on a performance nothing short of perfect. Then you'd give Barrowman a run for his money.

One of the panel (I forget which one) actually said to Lee "just because you're the most experienced, it doesn't mean you're the best performer." Or something along those lines. I have to agree with him (even though I do think that, now Daniel's gone, Lee's a dead cert).

this is about the best answer to perplexy I have heard

Yes lets not forget Lee is quite an unknown any way..so This would be just as much a first chance at this role as any one..don't see what the prob is with pubicising the show ..Personally It has made me keen to see a theater show,which I have never seen.All good for Theater shows ..good luck to them .i AM NOT SUCKED iNTO ANY THING ..I just know what I like.

Great post. I agree. It is such a pity than ALW doesnt feel confident enough in the ability of Lee to make the competition as fair as possible. I get the feeling that anyone who gets close to Lee in the voting gets saddled with a bad songchoice the following week.

Experience does not equal talent.
Talent equals talent.
It's hardly rocket science



THIS SAYS IT ALL I SAY

stuckforaname said it well

So it really boils down to we will put down this whole idea of not allowing professionals to unfairly take over the comp because.....

Lee is a professional Westend ALW ringer and we are all Lee fans.

Not rocket science is it?

Professional Golden boy should be ashamed that he got the job this way by having it Fixed up for him.

I do hope that amateur don't bother next time if the whole thing fixes it for professional. They might as well not be disposable parts in ALW next Professional advertising campaign.

I think thats a bit harsh on Lee. Even if he is the Golden Boy its not like its easy to make it in the Westend. He's just trying to get his big break. You could equally say that it would be unfair for people who trained all their lives and worked hard trying to perfect the craft watching amateurs being given a free ticket into the plum roles. If there is some sort of fix going on its the people behind it that should be ashamed.

Well said. Stop picking on Lee and making him the villain here. Or would you rather he did the "noble" thing and walked out to defend his honour? If he did there would be a lot of disappointed people. For your information, people in the theatre industry want Lee to win. Because he can hack the job.

Sorry, that's to Plextor, not to you!

But Lee is hardly the only one with professional experience, is he? Under plextor's theory, Daniel shouldn't have been allowed in either.

In any case, those weren't the rules, so trying to define how this competition should go by redefining what the rules should have been is kinda beside the point.

This does seem to be about Lee - more than anything else - Daniel hasn't even been mentioned.

I can see both sides of the arguement - if it is fixed it is unfair to the others - but equally it could just be that ALW likes the way Lee has progressed through so far - can see him in the role - and if that is genuinely the case - why shouldn't Lee get a bite of the cherry? Everyone knew from the off that he and Daniel had been in shows and had some experience - that was never a secret - I think the public would rather see someone in the role who can pull it off and give us value for money - than someone who isn't capable of the pressures and stamina involved in performing in a West end show.

Lee is Not Joseph any longer for me on his performances which seem forced and his appearance, I took it for granted that it would be a DANIEL & LEE Final as they where both ahead at the start, but........... BEN has come on leaps and bounds has such a better personality and all round strength for the role, ALW always said he wanted it to be more Pop and New/Fresh - BEN IS JOSEPH! for me

I don't know if Seamus was right about it being a conspiracy, but I smile when I think about what he said to Ben. He told him that he better go all the way and it was in that sing off that for the fist time Ben actually looked like he could. Now he's second favourite. I hope Seamus takes a bit of comfort in that.

Please get a grip! Lee isn't a professional, he was an understudy, and Lee is no more experienced or professional than daniel was, daniel was an understudy for russell watson in a musical. Sad people always claim its a fix/set up if their fav doesn't win!

Too true. Also, I don't think anything is a done deal yet. I don't think that ALW wants Lee, he's just waiting for one of the younger guys to 'step up', shown in his desicion on saturday.

Yeah, the whole 'does ALW want Lee or not' thing has been puzzling me for some time. On the one hand, there seems something inevitable about him winning, on the other, ALW is constantly banging on about youth, (and in the context of this competition, 25 isn't youth ) I'm really starting to believe that Lee is ALW's insurance policy Joseph. He would prefer one of the younger lads but if it becomes clear they can't cut it (and they are dropping like flies at the moment) Lee will be there as his safety net. I personally think that Lewis and Keith would be disastrous in the role, but there is a possibility that Ben could come through (especially if he learns how to sing in tune). That said, I don't think ALW is very keen on Ben (for obvious reasons) and although he likes Keith, he is far from convinced by him yet. I believe Andrew had a LOT invested in lewis, hence saving him the other night.

In Andrew's head, NOT saving Lewis would have made Lee the inevitable winner, rather than the other way around (I hope this makes sense).
That said, if Lee continues to give performances like he did last night it will be very, very difficult to justify not giving it to him. He is in another league to the others in this competition.

I said ages ago that i believed ALW wanted a "young" Joseph - he has mentioned this Justin Timberlake inspired idea , had them singing on stage with McFly and i feel like Jason Donovan years back he would like a star that would be teen magazine fodder - so personally i think he'd rather Ben or Lewis be Joseph. But hey, that's just my opinion.

As for Lee, imo he just happens to be amazingly good and if the viewers are voting for him every week then maybe just maybe ALW thinks he is a good prospect too. I for one would happily pay £50+ to see Lee onstage and i don't care if he has had more experience, if he's an understudy or studying by the amount of steak in his fridge he is a bloomin' werewolf - to me he is the right person for the job.
He wasn't in the sing off with Daniel, he didn't give a bad performance on Saturday so im kinda bemused at why he is suddenly being made out to be the bad guy - i guess i missed the VT where donned his black cape and tied Daniel to the railway tracks.

Lee is coming in for an unfair amount of stick ... but then I guess he has been the favourite all the way through - and maybe because of the result on Saturday this has made people over-sceptical about who will get the role and thus throwing up conspiracy theories.

Lee has always been a favourite of mine - but I did prefer Daniel and am sad that he is no longer in this competition. I do wonder whether the younger guys are stealing a march on Lee ... ALW is making it VERY clear now that youth is what he seeks and despite Lee being consistently excellent ... youth isn't on his side (hey I'm not saying that 25 is old .... but he is not a teenager).

I have tickets for the show - I will watch with interest to see who wins ... as long as it is the best person over the rest of the weeks, then I'll be happy. The only person I have a problem with (at the moment) is Keith because he lacks any kind of stage presence and charisma .... the others have done well - I hope Lewis raises his game next Saturday and shows us this spark that ALW keeps going on about - maybe then the sacrifice of Daniel will seem less like madness.

to be honest I'd only pay to see Lee in Joseph - none of the other have the personality or the voice for me - to be honest if any of the others win I'd rather see a 50 year old Donny Osmond in the role than any of the others

I agree i would only pay to see lee as joseph too.