well after the disaster that was last saturday anything could happen next week,

I agree that anything could happen with ALW - i don't think Lee is safe, i think ALW will favour the young boys.

I agree that the point of the sing off is for ALW to choose based on that performance, but, he never does. right from the start of the show ALW has said he wants a young poppy joseph, and, he has never picked based on who was best in the sing off.

This is what annoys me about some Daniel fans on here, there's is the only way there is. Not everyone thought he was better, but no, they must simply be wrong (even though the public obviously weren't fully behind his solo which i've been told was brilliant too), and that it was completely unfair.

Graham has several times talked about Andrew seeing who HE WANTS as Joseph. That's the point. The sing-off is to convince Andrew that they should be the one he wants.

I don't care if it was the heat of the moment, if you're getting that obsessive with a TV show, then you need to get some perspective - some people have been talking as if someone had died.
What fairness is this? There is no fair! It's Andrew's choice, pure and simple.

I agree - this is the way that reality tv shows work - right from the start everyone knew that ALW would choose who fitted the image he has of what he wants for his joseph. Its not just about who has the best voice etc, its about what ALW wants in joseph. I personally prefered daniels performance in the sing off, but, ALW clearly sees something in lewis, and i do think lewis has something about him also.

Actually, the show has been sold to us on the premise that we are picking our own joseph. That's the point

Now obviously there is an argument to be made that Daniel didn't pull in the votes on Saturday, proving that the public didn't want him. But given that Lewis, Craig and Ben have been in the bottom two TWICE, looking at the show as a whole, Daniel was pretty high in the pecking order of who the public wanted as their joseph.

Now there is a certain amount of manipulation in all these reality tv shows, obviously. But the fact that ALW completely disregarded the public, the panel and the evidence presented to him in the sing-off to go his own merry way means that plenty of people are now completely through with the illusion that they are picking their own Joseph.

Watching ALW audition 12 boys over however many weeks and finally picking one for the part is not nearly such a good premise for a TV show as the public choosing the winner for themselves.

Lots of people are beginning to resent the fact that Andrew is having his cake (i.e the extra publicity) and eating it too (ending up with the joseph that he wants anyway).

Some great points there!

I think ALW may see it as if the public really wanted that contestant, then they would ahve voted for them. all fair and all that once rthe public puts them in the bottom 2. I do totally get where you are coming from, and, i do agree with alot of the points you made, but, i think as i said that with this show its a case of the public choose by voting, and then if a contestant doesn't get enough votes and ends up in the bottom 2, then ALW takes over. Same in X Factor and grease etc, the shows way of trying to have some control over who wins.

I still don't get this. In my household we voted EIGHT times for Daniel and it was the first time we had ever voted in 'Joseph'. There are other posts on this Forum that say the same thing. Plus the posts that say they couldn't get through it all seems destined to get Daniel out of the competition.

Why, have the audience gone selectively deaf when Graham talks about Andrew saving the one he likes? The audience do get to decide: they can vote to keep their fave out of the bottom two, and vote for the eventual winner. But as has been reminded to us many many times, the guys have to impress Andrew because if they're in the sing off, he chooses. It's not like this has been a secret.

Thank you muchly for the rolleyes but I have one thank you, so you can have that one back.


Why? Because those other people have been in there an entire once more time than him?

Also, we're not looking at the overall show, when the vote comes, it's who the public has voted for that night. Andrew gets to save one of the losers of the vote. Obviously it would be different if someone had always been in the bottom, but look at Ben, twice in there and now seems to be second fave.

Daniel may well have more widespread support than Lewis for the moment, but apparently Andrew thinks Lewis would be a better Joseph, that's that.


Again, there had never been anything secret about how the show works. We get told every week, you'd have thought it would be obvious. The public get final say, but Andrew has a hell of a lot of a say too.

And again: the public did not save Daniel, so you can't say it was against their will. They had a chance to keep him, they did not.

Yea...that's nonsense. People talking about a conspiracy are just being childish that they didn't get what they wanted. There are regulatory bodies and people who check these things, and yet you seem to think the BBC is trying to swindle everyone just to get rid of one person who might theoretically have won. Reality check, anyone?

What OTT fans say on a forum and even who is most popular on a forum doesn't really mean anything. It might be reflecting the outside world, it might have no bearing on it at all.

I think we are all missing the point. I agree Daniel performed better than Lewis in his original song, but the point of the sing off is for them to improve and give a far better performance to demonstrate what they really can do. Quite simply, ALW considered Lewis gave the better performance in the sing off and was the most improved, and therefore he kept him. If he cant decide on the final performance alone, what is the whole point in having one? ALW isnt an idiot after all, he has never had a flop in anything as far as I am aware, and I dont believe he does anything purely out of personal preference, if he did, he wouldnt be half as successful as he is. Personally, I dont like either of those 2 any way so I wasnt bothered at all.

Because not every voting viewer posts on this forum.

I agree - shows like this don't rig the voting etc, and the certainly wouldn't do now after all the scandal over phone in voting shows charging too much etc, as now, more than ever, shows like this are monitored very closely.

I voted for Lee loads and i couldn't get through I thought it was a fix to get lee out but i made sure the phone lines were open when i voted the next time! lol!

Though ALW has had some spectacular successes, he most certainly has had flops, particularly in the last 10 years. Also, and I've said this before, Andrew Lloyd Webber built his reputation as a composer, not a casting director.

And finally, even if was a renowned casting director who'd never made a mistake in his life, that still doesn't mean he's incapable of it.

I probably don't need to say it again (I've said it so many times) I think he made a huge mistake on Saturday, but plenty of people disagree, fine! That's what makes the world interesting. But I do object to the argument that because he's made a successful career in this industry his judgement is infallible.

Completely agree. He deserves respect (moreso than he's got this week), but that's far from saying he's perfect, and it's absolutely fine and right to respectfully disagree with his choices.

If ALW wants Lee to play Joseph he has to get rid of anybody who can get close enough to him in terms of talent to impress the voters. If it was me I would jump at the opportunity to get rid of Daniel and Keith (assuming I was wanting Lee to get the part) as they have to be the realistic competition.

A bit like Maria last year - was Helena really the second most talented? Or just very easy cannon fodder for the final vote!

I'm sure this has been mentioned in other threads but I can't be bothered to read 20 threads about poor old Daniel. I didn't see Saturday's show but generally quite liked Daniel although he was a bit hit and miss with some of his performances which would worry me as a Director as I'd want somebody consistently fantastic.

But if someone is in the bottom 2 then they clearly are not impressing the voters enough, and there for are not much of a threat.

Yes but a couple of weeks ago you would have said that about Ben - and not only is he out of the bottom 2, hes also a favourite with the bookies. The way this is swinging round each week, you can't take any result as solid.

No - but ALW can only go on who is in the bottom 2 that week, past performance shouldn't be counted, as, the contestant may have improved since they were last in the bottom 2. You may not feel Lewis has, but ALW may see something in Lewis you don't. I think ALW is viewing it that he is trying to find the person he feels would best suit the role of joseph, rather than it purely being about who is simply the best singer etc.