[Dopple]

Having recently received a new Panny 37" Plasma PX70 and connecting it to my V+ box I must say I'm disappointed with the results. The HD channel obviously looks great but if I want more HD then I will have to go to Sky and pay more (I get a discount with Virgin).

The Standard Def stuff (using HDMI) ranges from just about acceptable to awful.
Some channels are almost unwatchable and none of them look as good as they did on my Panny CRT.

The biggest disappointment for me though is DVD.
Despite linking my Pioneer DVD up by component, plus buying an upscale DVD player and using HDMI
I can not get any of my movies to look as vivid as they were on my CRT.
In comparsion they look dull and washed out.
Zoomed up to fill the screen they look distored, which never happened on the CRT.

I think prehaps I have converted too early to flatscreen and there just isn't enough for me to feel like I'm getting value for money,
or prehaps I just prefer CRT.

Anyone else had a similar experience?

[Jarrak]

Well there are fundemental issues with low resolution and low bitrate digital channels but DVD connected via component or HDMI should be the best SD picture you can watch on a flat panel unless there is seriously flaw.

Don't forget that a flat panel has built in scaling and de-interlacing so maybe doing two steps of processing isn't helping plus your TV may (if possible) require two very different picture configs for the various inputs.

You should never zoom anything to fill the screen, you lose picture information and the picture will always suffer to one degree or another.

What are the Freeview channels like (if you have reception)?
Also worth remembering that you can setup a CRT in a couple of minutes but a flat panel will take longer and need tweaking as it beds in, settings in terms of brightness/contrast and all the other digital processing (some good most bad) will also have no relation to a CRT.

[Dopple]

Thanks for the reply Jarrak.

I've had the TV for 3 weeks now.
I have tried all the settings and all different cables.
It ain't getting any better!

It does come with freeview but the quality is like
watching a youtube video (it's also like that on a lot of Virgin channels).

I know it's best not to zoom but I hate the black bars and on my Panny CRT the lost of resolution by zooming was not worth mentioning. But on the Plasma even dvds that fill the screen automatically look pretty poor.

I'm not sure what is going but even friends who know nothing about TVs have commented that the picture is poor on everything bar the HD channel.

[Jarrak]

Try the AVForums Plasma section, you may find other views and user options that may help or even negative opinions.
If after 3 weeks you are still unhappy then I'm not sure what the legal position is (if there is no fault) but replacing it with another model at the very least seems a must.

[Orbitalzone]

A couple of questions:

What was the CRT screen size you're comparing this to?

If you're comparing a 27" CRT to this 37" then you will certainly see more digital artifacts (the 'you tube' effect)

Also how close are you sitting away from this large 37", again, if you're comparing the old (smaller) to this new large screen it's not a direct or fair comparison, I feel.

Even a 32" CRT compared to a 27" CRT is often noticably worse and exaggerates digital 'noise' so I wonder if this is the same sort of issue, only worse as it's a bigger plasma screen?

I recall installing a 40" LCD rear projection TV 7 years ago and up close it looked awful but from a suitable viewing distance of over 10 feet (reasonable for the size of TV) - the pictures actually were very impressive.

[mat060572]

I have had the same TV for a week and I think it is excellent.

I think the Op has been on AV forums as I recognise his complaint.

I can not pass comment on your Vigin PQ but I am very surprised at your comments about DVD PQ. I have tested Kill Bill Volume 1 on mine in comparison to the recent BBCHD Broadcast of the same movie and there was no difference in PQ.

I can only suggest that if you are not happy with it then you will have to sell the TV (assuming it is not faulty) and get another CRT. Do not get an LCD.

[edbishop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mat060572

I have had the same TV for a week and I think it is excellent.

I think the Op has been on AV forums as I recognise his complaint.

I can not pass comment on your Vigin PQ but I am very surprised at your comments about DVD PQ. I have tested Kill Bill Volume 1 on mine in comparison to the recent BBCHD Broadcast of the same movie and there was no difference in PQ.

I can only suggest that if you are not happy with it then you will have to sell the TV (assuming it is not faulty) and get another CRT. Do not get an LCD.

The opinion of anyone who rates the quality of a genuine HD broadcast as equal to that of SD ,whether its dvd or not ,should be taken with a pinch of salt.

It just goes to show how its best to audition the set you want before you buy.

On the whole,personal opinion about whether PQ is acceptable is worthless

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edbishop

The opinion of anyone who rates the quality of a genuine HD broadcast as equal to that of SD ,whether its dvd or not ,should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Probably watching 'HD' via a SCART lead?

[Catbed]

I'd try turning off the DVD scaling (the telly knows what scaling it needs and doing it twice is bound to degrade the image) and use a scart RGB connection. That's all we use on our DVD and on good DVDs the picture is excellent.

Some DVDs don't have a good picture quality, and on a big plasma this shows a bit. That is obviously not the fault of the player or TV.

[mat060572]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edbishop

The opinion of anyone who rates the quality of a genuine HD broadcast as equal to that of SD ,whether its dvd or not ,should be taken with a pinch of salt.

It just goes to show how its best to audition the set you want before you buy.

On the whole,personal opinion about whether PQ is acceptable is worthless

Glad you and others think my comments are so amusing.

For your information I have a good upscaling DVD player that produces a very good picture with a decent transfer SD DVD. The player is connected to my Plasma with a HDMI cable (not a scart - Nigel!)

It is possible (as I am sure you are aware) that any HD broadcast can be of lesser quality of others - bitrate, compression etc.

I am merely defending the Panny as a very capable SD performer and thought I would share something that I had tested.

[TallDave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mat060572

Glad you and others think my comments are so amusing.

For your information I have a good upscaling DVD player that produces a very good picture with a decent transfer SD DVD. The player is connected to my Plasma with a HDMI cable (not a scart - Nigel!)

It is possible (as I am sure you are aware) that any HD broadcast can be of lesser quality of others - bitrate, compression etc.

I am merely defending the Panny as a very capable SD performer and thought I would share something that I had tested.

What is the DVD scaling to? Unless it's scaling to 1024 by 720, which is the native resolution of your TV, then the TV is having to scale the image again before you get to see it.

[edbishop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mat060572

Glad you and others think my comments are so amusing.

For your information I have a good upscaling DVD player that produces a very good picture with a decent transfer SD DVD. The player is connected to my Plasma with a HDMI cable (not a scart - Nigel!)

It is possible (as I am sure you are aware) that any HD broadcast can be of lesser quality of others - bitrate, compression etc.

I am merely defending the Panny as a very capable SD performer and thought I would share something that I had tested.

You cant get HD quality from an SD source.

It does not matter how fantastic your dvd scaler is .

If the 2 are comparable in real terms then the HD broadcast is below standard

[Jaycee Dove]

We have had a Panasonic 37 PX 60 (which I assume is very similar to the 2007 model?) since May last year. It is coupled to a Sky HD box. It replaced a Sony Triniton CRT that I still use in the bedroom.

When we first got the Plasma (our first ever non CRT) I was put off by the seemingly duller picture. Compared to a CRT all flat panels are dull. But this is a result of many things - including the larger screen size. It takes a little adjust,ent but that passed very quickly.

We also found that the TV settled in over a couple of weeks. And we ignored the advice not to use Dynamic setting. This brought the TV alive to us whilst the other settings still looked dull. We have not had image retention problems; although we only use it for TV and that minimises the risk with plasmas I expect.

Within a month we were very happy indeed with the TV and I think the period of adjhustment was a result of the total differemvces in the technology. CRTs are brighter but not shartper or better. This simply takes some getting used to

I should add that we tested the set against many other sets before deciding which to buy. The 37 PX 60 gave the best combination for us of superb HD images with very good SD, as many flat panels we saw were less than impressive in that area. And most TV is - and will stay for some time - in the SD range - so many LCDs, for instance, were ru;ed out by us for that reason. For the price we felt that the PX 60 was easily one of the better ones.

Perhaps the Sky HD box is just better than Virgin's? Would not know not being in a cabled up area. But I am very happy indeed with the results on the PX 60 and we watch a huge amount of TV so would certainly not accept the sort of problems that you seem to be describing.

So, unless the 2007 Panasonic is inferior to the 2006 model, or the Virgin box has issues with it, then I would get the TV checked out under the warranty as it ought not to be disappointing you so much in our experience.

[meltcity]

@Dopple.

I blame the source and not the TV.

The HDMI output from the V+ box is quite noisy in my opinion, and having to re-scale upscaled 720p/1080i to the TV's native resolution is unlikely to improve things. The RGB SCART output looks better, but then you can't view the HD channel over SCART. Why Virgin haven't added a 576p mode for the SD channels over HDMI is a mystery to me.

Also bear in mind that non-terrestrial channels on the cable network are re-encoded, which obviously reduces the picture quality somewhat.

How do you find the picture quality from the TV's built-in Freeview tuner compares with the same channel upscaled by the V+ box?

[RobJ29A]

I'm very picky when it comes to TV picture quality and I've just bought one of those cheap'n cheerful Hitachi (Vestel) jobs from Argos - I wasn't expecting brilliance, but £450 is a hell of a lot of money for me! Its a 32 incher and I'm delighted with the thing. Theres a few digital artifacts in the picture from the Sky+ box (which I expected) but the DVD playback is fine, although I havent tried progressive scan yet cos I haven't got any component out cables yet. Is it worth using component out or sticking with the RGB input to the telly using the SCART? Testing from a SkyHD source at a mates house produced a wonderful picture.

Dare I say its better than my old CRT? Well my old CRT was a nice Sony 21 inch flat screen CRT but it looks like a portable next to the LCD.