[Alrightmate]

Originally Posted by Sharon87

That's what I think. I think the boy opens up the watch or something and the Doctor remembers something which helps him escape.

I think this is quite a scary episode in the terms of there is no Doctor to save the day (so far anyway), we are all relying on Martha to save the day, who hasn't had much experience. It's a brilliant idea I think.

I agree, because the idea is also a means to use Martha, and use her properly in an effective manner.
In the previous few stories it's just felt that she's been tagging along as a spare part.

In this particular story the idea literally thrusts a huge chunk of the drama into the direction of Martha.
...In a good way as well. Not to make a big point of how wonderful she is, nor as an excuse to use her family and get a load of shmaltz,....but in a way that is unobtrusive and is crucial to the plot and to make the story work.
A perfect story for utilising the purpose of a companion very well.

[diva queen]

Originally Posted by MJE

It's the short scene where the machine guns are firing at the buckets on sticks. A white trailer in the distance. I like looking for anomalies in period scenes - satellite dishes, aircraft trails etc.

On another subject, I'm amazed how many here are saying "I'll have to watch the repeat" or similar. Don't these people have recorders? Do you always watch it live with no recording going on and run the risk of an interruption? Don't you ever want to skip back and watch a scene again? Obviously some are now saying they want to watch the whole episode again, and even have to ask when it's repeated. Bizarre.

Juist seen it on Catch up On Demand on Virgin Media
Yes did spot that truck should have cgi'd it out silly buggers

[TennantsElbow]

Originally Posted by MJE

It's the short scene where the machine guns are firing at the buckets on sticks. A white trailer in the distance. I like looking for anomalies in period scenes - satellite dishes, aircraft trails etc.

On another subject, I'm amazed how many here are saying "I'll have to watch the repeat" or similar. Don't these people have recorders? Do you always watch it live with no recording going on and run the risk of an interruption? Don't you ever want to skip back and watch a scene again? Obviously some are now saying they want to watch the whole episode again, and even have to ask when it's repeated. Bizarre.

I have to say, in the nicest possible way, your time would be better served by just watching and enjoying the drama unfold rather than looking out for continuity glitches. I know plenty of people love spotting this sort of stuff but I've never understood why... It was the same with LoM - ooh look there's a sky dish... or there's some double glazing... or they didn't have that model of car in 197whatever...

I didn't notice any white van or trailer in the ep last night... I was too engrossed in the story.

[diva queen]

If the boy opens the watch how come it showed John Smith in the trailer saying he's not the Doctor to Martha

[Alrightmate]

Originally Posted by mz.heinstein

I just loved this ep. It kinda reminds me of oldschool Doctor Who, with a serious and dark tone.

I don't remember much of old Doctor Who but for some reason I was reminded of those Mummies walking around the grounds of a mansion. 'Pyramid of Mars' wasn't it?

It probably felt a bit like that due to the school setting replacing the mansion, and the scarecrows wandering about like the Mummies.

The story is probably nothing like it, but I just got a kind of feeling that reminded me of something like that.

Plus the fact that this was a proper meaty story. Something that I've been waiting for for a long time.
And like you say it had a tone about it that felt right.

[TennantsElbow]

Originally Posted by Alrightmate

I don't remember much of old Doctor Who but for some reason I was reminded of those Mummies walking around the grounds of a mansion. 'Pyramid of Mars' wasn't it?

It probably felt a bit like that due to the school setting replacing the mansion, and the scarecrows wandering about like the Mummies.

The story is probably nothing like it, but I just got a kind of feeling that reminded me of something like that.

Plus the fact that this was a proper meaty story. Something that I've been waiting for for a long time.

One of the things I liked is that so many questions were left unanswered. British TV is very guilty of spoon feeding its audience... you see a plot point unfold and then one of the characters 'explains it' for the benefit of the audience. Its so not necessary and is why American TV drama is generally much better. You can watch an episode of Heroes or The Sopranos and have absolutely no idea whats going on or what anything means. Rather than treating the audience like we're all stupid it assumes we have a questioning nature and will tune in next week to see if things are explained... It takes brave writers and producers to stop spoon feeding but it can be done and last nights ep proved it

[Alrightmate]

Originally Posted by garbage456

Poor reasoning, thats like saying it was David Tennant.

I don't think that was poor reasoning at all.
It's nothing like saying that it was like David Tennant.

The Doctor has a brand new personality. The Doctor as his normal self may not have fallen in love because he would have a different personality.

It was a bit disturbing to see his new personality give permission for the young lad to be given a beating at the shooting range. That's not really something I'd imagine the Doctor normally doing.

[f_196]

Originally Posted by Alrightmate

You can't criticise people just because they voted 'very poor' on the poll.

I fear i'm being misunderstood here. I'm not saying or suggesting that people are not entitled to an opinion, nor am i suggesting they are not allowed to vote poor, i'm just saying its nice to hear why people really didnt like it, just as those who explain why they liked it. Thats all.

[Alrightmate]

Originally Posted by abfab55

Firstly it makes no sense for people to say that the little boy is Captain Jack Harkness as it was established in series 1 that CJH originates from the 51st century

Yes, but things don't need to be as concrete and certain as that.
People often say they are from somehwere when technically they were born somewhere else.
The boy is a mere boy. There's nothing to say that he may not have come from the 51st century unbeknownst to him, or that soon he will end up in the 51st century and grow up to become Captain Jack. We've already seen a psychic glimpse where he appears in the modern day bumping into Martha.
Captain Jack has had his memory wiped. Possibly using the same means as The Doctor. So he may just presume that he's from the 51st century.
In this episode the Doctor mentioned time agents in the 51st century, so maybe that was a hint that was a subtle connection.

Originally Posted by abfab55

Secondly unless you come up with some complicated slowing down of age theory the doctors "baby" can't be Saxon as he is only about 40 whereas he would have to be in his 90's to have been born in 1913

You don't have to come up with just that theory you prescribe and believe to be complicated.
Saxon could come from anywhere. It's a show that deals with Time travel so he could be all over the place (which he probably is I suspect). 2007 is just one point in time which a Time traveller could visit. It doesn't necessarily mean that Saxon is bound there.

And let's also say that the boy/Saxon is a Time Lord himself. That in itself would easily explain why he doesn't age at the standard rate.

[The Slug]

Originally Posted by f_196

I fear i'm being misunderstood here. I'm not saying suggesting that people are not entitled to an opinion, nor am i suggesting they are not allowed to vote poor, i'm just saying its nice to hear why people really didnt like it, just as those who explain why they liked it. Thats all.

Let's be honest, there's been so much sniping about recent episodes, I think we should all just be thankful that the worst thing being said about this one is that a rogue white van showed up in 1913.

I'm sure normal service will resume shortly, so for now I'll just sit back and enjoy a peaceful bank holiday weekend.

[Alrightmate]

Originally Posted by sjcuk2006

I agree about this. its just wot i was thinking when the credits rolled up.

I don't mind. The episode needs to end somewhere.
As long as the next part doesn't start with the Doctor producing a bit of Tardis rock from his pocket and somehow aiming it and shooting it like a 'In best Doctor Evil Voice: (open air quotes)""Layyzer""(close air quotes)'.

[MJE]

Originally Posted by TennantsElbow

I have to say, in the nicest possible way, your time would be better served by just watching and enjoying the drama unfold rather than looking out for continuity glitches. I know plenty of people love spotting this sort of stuff but I've never understood why... It was the same with LoM - ooh look there's a sky dish... or there's some double glazing... or they didn't have that model of car in 197whatever...

I didn't notice any white van or trailer in the ep last night... I was too engrossed in the story.

I do watch and enjoy it. It's usually peripheral vision which notices things without actively seeking them out. It doesn't take any effort and doesn't detract from enjoyment.

[Alrightmate]

Originally Posted by Tele addict

This one was Doctor Who back to it's best. Reminded me of the classic series. Good plot and a cliffhanger too. So much better than last week's which was absolutely dire.

How about Russel T Davies ditches writing and adapts all the Who novels to the screen?

To be honest I think it would be an excellent idea to adapt two or three novels as two-parters each year.

They'd already have a sense of what would be great stories to use as the novels would be like drafts of what could work well and what maybe wouldn't.
And they wouldn't really be ripping off anything as they would already be Doctor Who stories, but given a brand new platform to shine on.
Maybe the writers of some novels would deserve to have their stories made into full blown TV adaptations and would more than welcome the idea.

Plus there'd still be seven other episodes to play around with and experiment with completely brand new fresh material.

[LivingDeadMan]

Originally Posted by Dangerman

Difficult to argue with the 'best episode yet' build up - certainly for this series though I'm not so sure it really compares to TEC.
Don't think the 'chameleon arch' has ever been used before but being part of the Tardis does give the science that bit more leeway - also the Doctor being 'in the watch' initially seems fanciful but no more than an entire spaceship being 'inside' a police box. Actually 'becoming' human also explains how his second heart wasn't found - it's not there anymore.
Loved the 'cameos' by past Doctors - the press releases have really pulled a fast one with their leaks
Having said that the Rose reference took that one too far and minimised the overall impact.
Supporting cast were excellent , especially Baines who captured the whole look and movements really well to portray an extremely creepy character. Not entirely certain of the relationship with the matron , a bit too Rose/Martha/MdP etc. but let's see how it develops.
Really hope there is much more to Latimer as well , his precognition seems to be building towards something and I've no doubt he'll be a big part of the second part. I'm assuming him opening the watch allowed some of the Doctor to return thus explaining the various references to Gallifrey etc. although the dreams and books would indicate a part of the Doctor remained within Smith.
Scarecrows were great , definite nod towards various 'classic' villains but remaining fresh and original.
Didn't like the piano scene , just seemed too contrived and would have been better if he had simply pulled the woman away from underneath the piano.
One big problem was with the trailer - spoilers in case anyone didn't watch it

Spoiler

Why have a cliffhanger where one of two characters is apparently about to meet her death ( one of them completely expendable ) then show both in the trailer ? We know Martha's going to survive because we've seen trailers of the rest of the series but there was a possibility of Matron being sacrificed for about 10 seconds until we saw her in the trailer !

Overall had the right balance of storytelling with sci-fi , great acting , good effects - best episode yet !

Thank you for saying the exact same thing I've been going on about since 2005. The trailers at the end DO completely kill any suspense that's been built up.

[Alrightmate]

Originally Posted by snow_garden

On the front cover of the book that this episode is based on the machine gun is featured prominently

Is that just because of the impending war or that is features in the story?

Spoiler

I see Tim proving himself and using the machine gun

Ah....good thinking. I'm kicking myself for not thinking that before.
It was even foreshadowed earlier on.
I've put your speculation in spoilers because I think that you may have guessed correctly.

[Yoonix]

Originally Posted by Alrightmate

Ah....good thinking. I'm kicking myself for not thinking that before.
It was even foreshadowed earlier on.
I've put your speculation in spoilers because I think that you may have guessed correctly.

Well that's a bit I had a problem with when I saw it in the teaser. If the guy can thrust his hand through the stomach of a scarecrow and have no effect, then how can a shower of bullets take them down? Perhaps like silver bullets for werewolves, they were special bullets made from crow shit?

[EmmaGx]

I'm not sure yet if this is my favourite ep of the past 3 years, I'll have to wait to see the second part before I decide, but it's definitely top 2! ... really loved it!

[Balbi85]

Originally Posted by Alrightmate

It just seems a bit odd that the other 'sketches' are pretty spot on and Hartnell's isn't. It could well be simply because it's a bad drawing, but I doubt it, as they are obviously traced and processed from the original publicity photos.

Possibly because Hartnell is the oldest form of the Doctor that the memory/dream is more indistinct?

I'd kill for a copy of that book!

[soob]

Originally Posted by lonelyangel

What I liked here though was that it was an emotional cliffhanger wheras in new Who they tend to go for (sometimes) absurdly 'maximum peril' cliffhangers.

I mean if it was the Doctor, I know he'd just do *something* awfully clever, but now it is John Smith, I'm less sure what will happen - will he remember who he is? Will he come up with another piano-style moment of Doctorness? Or will it be up to Martha to get them out of this one?

Basically this is an innocent and unaware man terrorised into playing god over the lives of his nearest and dearest. Paul Cornell, bless you!

john smith does still have the sonic screwdriver....

[pammi_i]

Originally Posted by LivingDeadMan

Thank you for saying the exact same thing I've been going on about since 2005. The trailers at the end DO completely kill any suspense that's been built up.

But you must have noticed that at the end of the show they reminded us that there would be a trailer for next week to give the unwary such as myself a chance to turn the tv over for a couple of minute. I was pleased, and glad they have been taking notice of the complaints. They must have had a few complains to actually do anything about it. The BBC is not an organisation which listens to lone voices in the wilderness. I know this from two occasions on which I've complained about various things and had the rather snotty response "you may be interested to know that this was the only complaint that we've had about this matter"... erm, well, no, it doesn't interest me at all dear Beeb, my opinion is my opinion whether anyone else shares it or not!

[Vennegoor]

Best episode since Unquiet Dead for me; had everything Doctor Who should be about.

I had almost given up on this show since the Tate massacre.

[KennyT]

Originally Posted by diva queen

Juist seen it on Catch up On Demand on Virgin Media
Yes did spot that truck should have cgi'd it out silly buggers

Any chance of a 'mm:ss'. I was watching out for it during the BBC3 repeat and didn't notice it. I could see a 'white area' in the background but it didn't seem to be anything in particular, maybe a house, perhaps you need an HD screen to see it?

K

[Buchanan]

At last, this series picks up! Clearly my favourite episode of series 3.

[smudges dad]

Originally Posted by f_196

I fear i'm being misunderstood here. I'm not saying or suggesting that people are not entitled to an opinion, nor am i suggesting they are not allowed to vote poor, i'm just saying its nice to hear why people really didnt like it, just as those who explain why they liked it. Thats all.

so far there are 619 votes, and nowhere near that number of comments. Not everyone who votes excellent or very good says why, so there's no point in singling out the very few peple who voted poor or very poor.

I voted very good, but can easily understand why some could consider it dreadful - the Dr wasn't acting in control - the story line was difficult to follow - there was a white van in one shot - Martha blinked at the wrong time - the Dr kissed someone female which ruined the gay agenda - there weren't any daleks or cybermen - etc etc

last week I voted poor - as did a lot of people - were any questions asked why people voted excellent - I think not!

If everything was as good as TW Greeks Bearing Gifts, then we'd all be happy and in ecstacy every day

[peppie]

Originally Posted by soob

I just watched dr who again. Realised something that seemed odd to me in the first watching but i forgot about it. Martha showing theDoctor his screwdriver seemed un necessary - will it help him in this weeks cliffhanger?

Another thing i noticed is when the boy bumped into Martha and he had a flash to the future, she was dreesed and hairstyled exactly how she is in the series second half trailer when she says 'Doctor, what do we do?' In the trailer he looks all normal. But because it is the future does that mean the boy travels in time? Do the family chase the dr through time still?

If the boy does go to the future to see that, maybe theres some time travel. In the episode he has a flash of war battle? Well confidential shows that scene being made next week, so maybe he really go there.

If you look at the screen shots that someone posted from John Smtiths note book. The sonic screw driver was there so I guess Martha was hoping to jog his memory to the notes he had written. I also noticed next to his watch on the mantle piece three was a blue glass tube with fancy silvere at each end. I was wondering if his sonic screwdriver had turned Edwardian....

Originally Posted by EunosDriver

Hmm, I think we need a new rating for the poll; Fan ****ing Tastic!

For once, I can't see where this is going next week; the flash forward with the kid has completely baffled me, as has the moment where he's in the trenches and seems to have used the watch to fortell the exact moment he meets his doom.

Surely he's got to be a candidate for Saxon; just a small part of him is timelord, and so he could age slowly enough to be John Simm in 2007, desperate to find the Doctor again to somehow grab more of his Timelordness (perhaps using the machine from the Lazarus experiment?) and become the full monty.

Definitly the subject of Boe's "you are not alone" prophecy I'd have thought.

Can't wait 'till next week, but I suppose I'll have to

Maybe if he has a bit of time lord in him he regenerates from when he meets his end in WW1?? Even if it is Captain Jack. Remember Jack got done by the Daleks and didn't die and ended up on earth in TW. He seems to travel around and not age so maybe there is a bit of time lord in him too. I think there is still many possiblities.