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How is Ben still in this show.
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lubby
26-05-2007
Originally Posted by Georgiecats:
“I don't find him arrogant at all. He's had to be tough as he's been in the sing off a few times so knows he's not that popular with the public.

He shows emotion when he needs to, he dances well and hes' confident when performing especially more upbeat songs.

He does struggle in ballads as there are a few bum notes - and he can't do that when he's up against singers like Lee who are note perfect.

I still think he's a right to be there over Craig who annoys me with that lip-smacking thing all the time and ALW is right that Craig still has that club/pop singer and he always sings that way - that isn't right for musical theatre. I also think Ben is better than Lewis who should have gone a couple of weeks back.

They're all going to come second to Lee anyway - it's so obvious he is the chosen one.”


Why is Lee the 'Chosen One' ? Has he not earned the right to be up there at the top?
cleo1
26-05-2007
Originally Posted by lubby:
“Why is Lee the 'Chosen One' ? Has he not earned the right to be up there at the top?”

He is the only one left who has earned the right, and who has the talent.
allyfree
26-05-2007
Originally Posted by lilliebelle:
“Neither is Ben. He hits the wrongs notes all of the time and is always getting out of breath, especially if he has a fast number to do. He will never cut the mustard. He doesn't have the stamina.”

Very good post....... my perception exactly
Debhyfryd
27-05-2007
I can hazard a guess at what Ben was thinking when he nodded his head at Zoe's and Bill's comments.

Straight from the off Ben knew this song was not suited to his voice. Judging from the news item on the bbc site he was expressing his doubts about being able to sing the high notes, but was told to have more confidence in himself and was reassured that he sounded great. Then after putting in a below par performane, as he feared he would, he is told by the very people who assured him all would/could be well that actually mate you are not good enough. I'd feel gutted and betrayed if that was me.

He was definitely set up for a fall this week.

I think he was wrong to react the way he did.Ben's problem imo is that he shows what he is thinking and feeling. He needs to learn to cover it up better and become less of an open book. Otherwise people will carry on thinking he is arrogant.
ArtyAttack
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by Debhyfryd:
“I can hazard a guess at what Ben was thinking when he nodded his head at Zoe's and Bill's comments.

Straight from the off Ben knew this song was not suited to his voice. Judging from the news item on the bbc site he was expressing his doubts about being able to sing the high notes, but was told to have more confidence in himself and was reassured that he sounded great. Then after putting in a below par performane, as he feared he would, he is told by the very people who assured him all would/could be well that actually mate you are not good enough. I'd feel gutted and betrayed if that was me.

He was definitely set up for a fall this week.

I think he was wrong to react the way he did.Ben's problem imo is that he shows what he is thinking and feeling. He needs to learn to cover it up better and become less of an open book. Otherwise people will carry on thinking he is arrogant.”

Good post and I agree. I think Ben was stitched up on the songchoice this week though I actually thought he performed it extremely well bar the few bum notes of course.
Phil2003
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by Debhyfryd:
“I can hazard a guess at what Ben was thinking when he nodded his head at Zoe's and Bill's comments.

Straight from the off Ben knew this song was not suited to his voice. Judging from the news item on the bbc site he was expressing his doubts about being able to sing the high notes, but was told to have more confidence in himself and was reassured that he sounded great. Then after putting in a below par performane, as he feared he would, he is told by the very people who assured him all would/could be well that actually mate you are not good enough. I'd feel gutted and betrayed if that was me.

He was definitely set up for a fall this week.

I think he was wrong to react the way he did.Ben's problem imo is that he shows what he is thinking and feeling. He needs to learn to cover it up better and become less of an open book. Otherwise people will carry on thinking he is arrogant.”

It looked like disbelief to me though and a shake of the head.
gertie
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by Jamfocus:
“I think hes doing fantastic and deserves to be still in the competition.

However you maybe right about the arrogance a number of people have informed me about it.”


If you haven't seen it for yourself then it doesn't exist.

It was the right decision tonight. Ben doesn't have the best singing voice but he doesn't need that for the part of Joseph, Andrew Webber wants someone who can act and show emotion and Ben passes that test. AW said himself he is not looking for the best singer he looking for someone who fits his image of Joseph.

If you are going to talk about arrogance then Kieth is the master.

Having said that Lee we win anyway
Average Woman
27-05-2007
I didn't really notice Ben in the first few weeks, but now I think he's great. He totally stands out in the group performances.

I don't think he's arrogant. I think he's just scared of showing his weaknesses. I couldn't help thinking tonight that if he'd got 'let me entertain you' he would have been far better than Keith, who has a good voice, but absolutely none of the charisma of a Robbie Williams. Thought he was pretty rubbish to be honest.
LaurieMarlow
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by cleo1:
“Because ALW is clearly abit thick!”

Wow, you've changed your tune
kyri
27-05-2007
I ask myself the same question everyweek. He clearly is just an average singer and he is NOWHERE as good as he thinks he is. I do find this funny about him though.

The best is when he said (along the lines of) "ALW shouldn't comment because he doesn't know what he is talking about"

That really made me chuckle
Phil2003
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by Average Woman:
“I didn't really notice Ben in the first few weeks, but now I think he's great. He totally stands out in the group performances.

I don't think he's arrogant. I think he's just scared of showing his weaknesses. I couldn't help thinking tonight that if he'd got 'let me entertain you' he would have been far better than Keith, who has a good voice, but absolutely none of the charisma of a Robbie Williams. Thought he was pretty rubbish to be honest.”

Ben may well have sung Keith's song better than Keith... but then Keith would undoubtedly have sung Ben's song way better than Ben!
gertie
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by cleo1:
“He is the only one left who has earned the right, and who has the talent.”


He's also had experience.
I would like to see someone starting from the bottom of the ladder win, not someone who was already three quarters of the way up the ladder before entering the competition.
I believe Lee has been the winner since day one, AW is not going to chance one of the others unfortunately
Average Woman
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by Phil2003:
“Ben may well have sung Keith's song better than Keith... but then Keith would undoubtedly have sung Ben's song way better than Ben!”

I agree, but it's about all round performance and with that in mind I'm convinced Ben has the edge,
Phil2003
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by gertie:
“He's also had experience.
I would like to see someone starting from the bottom of the ladder win, not someone who was already three quarters of the way up the ladder before entering the competition.
I believe Lee has been the winner since day one, AW is not going to chance one of the others unfortunately”

I'd rather see someone good - I don't care about their background other than how it prepares them for this part. I really don't think people should hold Lee's experience against him - for me it's one of his positives.
gertie
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by Phil2003:
“Ben may well have sung Keith's song better than Keith... but then Keith would undoubtedly have sung Ben's song way better than Ben!”


Kieth doesn't have stage presence IMO, unlike Ben.
kyri
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by gertie:
“Kieth doesn't have stage presence IMO, unlike Ben.”

No but he can sing!
Kolakube
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by kyri:
“No but he can sing!”

But for a stage show.........he needs stage prescence.

I think Ben and Keith can sing pretty much on par with each other (although I prefer Ben's voice personally) - I just feel Ben edges out Keith when it comes to putting on a performance.
gertie
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by Phil2003:
“I'd rather see someone good - I don't care about their background other than how it prepares them for this part. I really don't think people should hold Lee's experience against him - for me it's one of his positives.”


Experience is everything, no-one on the show has that but him If thats what AW was looking for,it makes the show a mockery IMO
LaurieMarlow
27-05-2007
Yes he can sing, but, in my opinion that's all he can do. Joseph isn't exactly Wagner, I think that even Ben would manage the music just fine. Keith on the other hand has absolutely no charisma on stage, can't act to save his little scottish ass and I couldn't understand a bloody word he said tonight.
He has a lovely voice, absolutely, but as Andrew has said, this isn't a singing competition.

Just my opinion, obviously, presumably others disagree.
Boom Head Shot
27-05-2007
Ben STILL being in this show, is absolutely SHOCKING!

His earlier performances were terribly DIRE, and even now, he's not much better.
gertie
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by kyri:
“No but he can sing!”


Andrew said he is not looking for the best singer though, they have be good at everything not excel in one thing.
kyri
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by Kolakube:
“But for a stage show.........he needs stage prescence.

I think Ben and Keith can sing pretty much on par with each other (although I prefer Ben's voice personally) - I just feel Ben edges out Keith when it comes to putting on a performance.”

I do agree with you but this is a musical which contains singing. Ben is good at upbeat songs, and i use the word "good" because he is nothing special even in them. When it comes to slow ballads he is terrible, and Joseph has quite a few slow songs. People won't pay to watch Ben screech his way through songs, but are more likely to want to watch Keith who can sing and have some stage presence.
twingle
27-05-2007
I think whoever got that song tonight would have been dead

I know I am biased but think he did the best he could with it as reirterated by the panel. Oh and did he not as usall outchine everyone in the group number of the dirty dancing song
LaurieMarlow
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by twingle:
“Oh and did he not as usall outchine everyone in the group number of the dirty dancing song”

Absolutely he did, he was amazing.
gertie
27-05-2007
Originally Posted by kyri:
“I do agree with you but this is a musical which contains singing. Ben is good at upbeat songs, and i use the word "good" because he is nothing special even in them. When it comes to slow ballads he is terrible, and Joseph has quite a few slow songs. People won't pay to watch Ben screech his way through songs, but are more likely to want to watch Keith who can sing and have some stage presence.”



Have you heard Philp Schofield and Jason Donavan sing slow ballads

I would pay to watch Ben in Joseph.

I would pay to watch Keith sing but not in a west End show, he just doesn't have the emotion and charisma to carry it off,
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