What you said, basically.

I don't think Ben is arrogant exactly. He's certainly self-assured, but the vast majority of guys that I was at drama school with have been similar - at least all the ones that have been any good. You need a bit of that. He seems sincere to a point, perhaps too sincere. But he's only 18, he'll learn. How many people do you know who at 18 weren't always the most modest?

Apart from anything else, I find it hilarious that people post attacks on Ben for his alleged arrogance, yet some of them sound... what would you call it... arrogant? You don't know him, you rely on an edit of clips every week. A week's worth of clips was filmed and you see how much of it...? But obviously, you're assuming that you know all of the facts. Is that not arrogance?

I'm glad Ben stayed. I think he's a better actor than everyone else in the competition bar Lee. He's a good mover. He's got great stage presence. He hasn't got the best vocal control or range but I love the tone he has to his voice. Maybe he is arrogant, but I don't give a damn, he's got talent.

I know everyone thinks Ben is arrogant but to me he is just confident in his abilities which does sometimes appear as arrogance. Plus did anyone else hear what he said about vulnerability tonight. How he keeps his emotions inside. So probably he hides emotions by acting like he does. Also the fist punch is just his way of being excited when he wins through.

Oh great another I hate Ben thread

This guy had the hardest song in the whole competition. Did he sing it as bad as *all by myself* no he didn't apart from a few duff notes. All of the guys would have struggled with that song it is a no no to touch as there was only one Roy orbison. i think he did the best he could with it.

Forget that song think about the group numbers and he shines even outperforming Lee. Think Dirty Dancing and the beatles classic last week.
Oh and how surprising ,his vocals in the group songs are pretty good

All the way through Let Me Entertain You I was wishing that Ben was singing it because I knew how good he would have been.

I didn't feel the same way about Crying because I've not heard any of them have the vocal range to sing that song.

Ben's still in because they want it to be a competition rather than just saying next week that Lee's got it and we're not going to bother with the final.

Keith can sing but that's all he can do and Lewis, I think he's got potential for the future but he's not ready at the moment and I think it could be damaging for him to get the part.

BEN has Talent and has developed throughout ADWD that was was the criteria that ALW set, someone fresh like a Justin Timberlake or Michael Jackson that is why BEN CAN STILL BE JOSEPH!

When are the public going to fully realise that Lee has been Pharaoh in The West End , and that he has stuck on one level throughout the series and looks grey and too old for the part! - if Lee is chosen it is pure safety first and the competition has had no relevance at all, just a publicity wagon for ALW and to bring back another show to the West End!

Keith has also got it and he or Lewis should be in the final with Ben - if the voting is above board this is what should happen now!

It's probably just as well that his group vocals are good, seeing how his only chance of getting to appear in 'Joseph' is as part of the chorus

If somebody can sing well as part of a group, whether that group is 5 people or 50, this does not mean that they have the vocal ability to be a soloist. With group singing you know that if you miss a note somebody else will hit it and mistakes are covered which will obviously bring a more confident performance.

To win this competition, you have to be a good singer. 'Joseph' is completely sung through so what we should be looking for is somebody who can convey the acting through their singing and that singing has to be in tune and with appropriate light and shade.

It astounds me that Ben even got as far as the live rounds as he just isn't a soloist. I do think that whoever gave him 'Crying' last night (and I very much doubt ALW chooses the songs) was having a laugh.

At the end of the day I don't think it matters who was sent home out of Ben and Craig as neither of them have the talent to win this competition. Ben is a very safe bet for ALW to keep saving as he is regularly in the bottom 2 so even if full voting results are not revealed to the panel, they know he is a good lamb to sacrifice in the later stages of the competition to ensure a smooth passage for Lee, the only actual contender left.

ALW does choose the songs, this has been confirmed on a number of occasions, most recently in one of Daniel's interviews from last week. But yeah, although sometimes there is a tactical element to it, most of the time he doesn't appear to choose them with any care. It was clear from the sing-off that ALW wanted to keep Ben in the competition, so I can't understand why he gave him that song in that case, because everyone knew that it was a disaster waiting to happen, even a pro-Ben person like myself.

A hard song , that is a very very poor excuse, he also hit 3 bum notes under the pressure of the sing off , Craig hit none.


Just face it , the guy can only sing easy up tempo songs.

He was totally out of tune on several occasions in his song.
I just don't like this fella - there is something about him, the way he smirks - something.

Why is he still in the show? He should have been out weeks ago.

I think Ben conveys emotion well. Yes, he hit a few duff notes on Crying, but as JB said, singing the Joseph songs he would not have to reach such high notes. Between Craig and Ben I think it was right that Ben stayed. Craig's a good enough singer, but he never actually sells the story of a song to me which is critical for a musical. Lee and Daniel (sob!) are the masters at that.

I believe the only reason ALW is keeping him in, is so Lee has a much better chance of winning. If these two do get down to the final two (which is unlikely, but you never know with the GBP voting), Lee is a dead cert to win against an arrogant Matt Willis look-a-like who can't even hold a tune.

But you have to remember that as Joseph they have hardly anything difficult to sing ... only Close Every Door ... the rest of the songs are pretty basic ....

They need someone with stage presence, personality and the ability to convey Joseph's 'journey'. If they wanted the best 'singer' then others wouldn't have gone out earlier.

I still think Lee will win it ... but I think Ben could do the role justice. More so than the others left (Lewis needs to show that spark and I might change my mind about him).

Lee could definitely handle the role - possibly Keith - definitely not Ben imo.

I agree - Ben does convey emotion well and his strength now is that he delivers the whole perforamance - acting, dancing, selling the story, moving well and interacting with others on stage in group numbers - all essential for Joseph. I don't think he's arrogant in the slightest - his little asides are a cover for his disappointment and hurt - it's classic behaviour for a bloke of his age and is misread by viewers who don't like him in the first place!

ALW has said all along that this is not a singing competition - but if that's the case, why did he make Ben sing Crying - I agree with the earlier poster that it was a disaster waiting to happen - and it was a disaster. However, if you look at all the performances and take all the Josephs as complete performers, I can see what ALW is seeing.

FMs who've been in the live audience some weeks have confirmed that Ben is commanding live, and that he has great stage presence - which I can see through the screen. Lewis is improving all the time, although I think Joseph will come to soon. Keith has the voice but nothing else and I've never seen him as Joseph.

That only leaves Lee and Ben - so is ALW saving Ben in order to get rid of him in the final and choose Lee?

I really don't get emotion from Ben - certainly not vulnerability last night, unless screwing up his face was supposed to be him Doing Emotion.

Ben is an entertaining performer and I don't care one way or another about any alleged arrogance. Yet he has coasted along in this programme for a few weeks on some songs that really suit his fairly limited vocal range and it was time he was tested more (and I am sure that there are three of four of the current and ex-Josephs who would have done a smashing version of 'Crying'). His soft-singing is quite colourless and his sustained notes and loud singing are very prone to an intrusive vibrato than threatens to topple over into a wobble: he might be able to do something about this to some degree, but for 8 performances a week? I imagine it will be him against Lewis next week, so it will be interesting to see which way ALW goes.
Last edited by Pasta : 27-05-2007 at 12:30

IMO, the people who are being so harsh about Ben are being very cruel. At the end of the day, he's only 18, and he was given a song that many good singers would have struggled with. Have you any evidence that any of the others would have pulled it off any better? Unless you hear them sing it, you really can't say that with any confidence. The others had pretty safe songs, whereas Ben had a truly awful one in terms of vocal ranges. I can't help feeling that was done deliberately to try to humiliate him (even further than the song choice). He did as good a job as he could have done with an abysmal song choice IMO. If no-one will have to sing that type of song in the actual show, what was the point in giving it him (or anyone else for that matter)?

I've seen plenty of posts saying he's not been tested, but I have to disagree with that. He's had All By Myself (which let's face it, is always going to be associated with Celine Dion, who is an exceptional singer) and then Crying. Someone like Keith on the other hand, as good a singer as he is, he's had some pretty safe song choices, even though the panel said last week that they wanted to challenge him more vocally this week.

I agree with all of the above - they need to decide what aspect of the boys they wish to showcase and stick to it. All this conflicting advice and direction is knocking their natural ability out them and it's too much for them to absorb in a week. That's what show rehearsals are for

I take it you're around 18 yourself........ she did a crappy cover version of an all-time classic....... a bit like most of Ben's performances on ADWD

On born to be wild his solo bits were flawless. I think you are beiing harsh . All the Josephs would have struggled with a song outside their register. I am glad ALW acknowledged that

He's still here because he absolutely deserves to be. If he wasn't but Lewis, Craig or Keith were then it would be shocking and a real injustice. I'm not saying he's the winner but he has had some truly wonderful solo performances and he really stands out in group numbers. I could easily watch him perform for 2 hours with the stage presence he has. And he's sexy as hell too. (yes its true. i love him).

At the end of the day, the part of Joseph is really not that challenging vocally. If we were auditioning for something like Phantom, then yes, amazing vocal ability would be paramound. Yes, Joseph is a mainly sung musical. But the person who does the majority of the singing is not Joseph but the Narrator. All Joseph needs to do is to be able sing in tune and can sing Close Every Door (which isn't really that challenging either). The best person for the job does not need to be the best vocalist just an adequate one (as can be seen by the type of people who have been cast as Joseph beforehand).

"All By Myself" was absolutely awful, but "Crying" really was not that bad. I don't think Ben is the strongest vocalist in the competition,not by far, but I actually think he is better than some people give him credit for. I personally think that even the best vocalists in this competition would have struggled with "Crying" (although they may have been able to pull it off). The thing is that the person does not need that kind of range for the part of Joseph.

I'm not quite ready to write Ben off yet. I hope next week we see Ben do a ballad again. But this time, something that is actually within the range of Joseph, so that I can actually see for myself whether or not he can handle it.

Well said, you need to do more than pull a face to show emotion!

ALW won't give him a ballad again, as he screws them up spectacularly whenever he gets one!