All I can say is that The Apprentice is trying to be something that it isn't - a talent/business search disguising a true reality tv show.

The first series was about business and talent, and it was still entertaining. Now, it is more about entertainment. But it is still watchable.

In getting over-excited you've bizarrely started attributing posts by other people to me. For example, the "having a word with Jadine" comment was in fact made by the following FM -
wibblebob post #35 http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...=580828&page=2

I am aware that Alan Sugar had some limited input in the selection process this year. The question is, how limited this was.

My points are based on experience, and the fact that I watch the programme. Your arguments, it would appear, are based upon being a reality TV fan alone.

I can't understand why you think that it's inconceivable that the BBC might manufacture the selection process. It does happen from time to time, have a read of my earlier post. Perhaps it's just naivity.

KingCanute, can I just ask what you believe the show would look like if it WAS based 100% on merit and nothing else, as you claim it isn't?

My points are also based on experience. It's your prejudice showing through again that you think anybody else commenting here doesn't know what they are talking about.

It's also your prejudice that assumes because a line-up isn't uniformly white male middle class and straight that somehow merit isn't part of the selection process.

It's your prejudiced views about selection criteria for television reality shows which is getting in the way of a sensible debate.

That's impossible to say for sure, however, if you were to use data collected on ethnic minority and female representation in the board rooms of FTSE 100 companies, then this would be as follows:-

Ethnic minority representation - 2.3%
Female representation - 10.3%

Clearly this is not the case with the Apprentice candidates, as the percentage of women candidates is 47%, and for ethnic minorities it's 34%.

So somewhere between the reality of the business world, and the reality TV show that is meant to be about business, there is a massive disconnect.

My view, as stated when I started the thread, is that the BBC is manipulating the selection process, and is filling quotas, otherwise these percentages would be a much closer match to the real world.

But is the real world a fair representation of 'merit'?

Minorites and women have traditionally been underrepresented in a whole host of industries. Are you really trying to say that this is due to them them being somehow less capable?

Surely the show itself, and the way in which the women have often outperformed the men, as one example, is proof to the contrary. That surely tells us that we shouldn't look towards mere statistics as any kind of indication of talent in any given field.

If you're going to start making things up off the top of your head as a reason for doing them, rather than attempt to use a certain degree of common sense and facts, then good luck to you.

My point is that the programme isn't really a very good reflection of the business world, and is in fact a fairly bad parody of it. The proportion of ethnic minority and female candidates doesn't acutally exist anywhere in the real world. The reason for this is that the BBC has certain politically correct quotas to fill when selecting candidates.

Hah, you think because the business world is disgustingly prejudiced towards women and people of colour that this programme should repeat that prejudice.

That's the silliest argument I've seen on here for ages.

Do you really think the pale, male and stale business world is based on merit?

Eh? Care to explain what you mean by that?

I'm not making things up off the top of my head. I thought it was common knowledge that minority groups are often under-represented in a wide cross-section of industry. For example, I'm actually in the middle of studying the way in which the journalism industry only has 2% of their staff as ethnic minorities, and this has a big impact in the way in which news is depicted in this country.


That may be the case, but so what if it allows all groups to be represented equally and fairly. There are a lot of barriers that exist to different social groups in the real world, and I see it as a positive thing if the show can do its small part to help redress the balance and encourage a wider range people into the world of business. Clearly you don't agree though....

Actually, I'm sure if you looked at the statistics of the show, you'd see a closer relation with the REAL world in terms of represention of different social groups. The show gives them an arena where they can fight it out in a business sense, as it were, and I can see no indications in this of any groupings as being more competant than any other, so I fail to see why this should be any kind of criteria in the selection process.

Good luck with your studies.

Canute is also forgetting that at lower executive levels (which this programme is recruiting for) women and ethnic minorities are much more strongly represented. It's discrimination that stops people going any further.

Would it be possible for you to make an argument rather than a snide remark?

That would require a solid argument though, which sadly he doesn't possess....

I dont think caunte was being prejudice, racist, sexest. all he was trying to say is that mybe the bbc dont necceserily pick the person who is best, be it white, black, green, gay, bi, straight, paris hilton... bacause they are trying to be PC. but i do think that caunte may have accidently used bad wording. which was taken out of context pf what he was trying to say.

Well, ofcourse. I don't always pick the right lottery numbers each week, but I fail to see what any of this has to do with trying to be PC.

"Lower" executive levels eh? How do you define that?

Given that only approximately 300,000 people in this country earn £100,000 or more a year, this equates to around 0.5% of a population of 60 million.

From your extensive experience in business, how would you define "lower executive levels"?

well i think the way the bbc are trying to be 'PC' i believe they are being more prejudice. i am not saying that more white people on the apprentice is the way forward, what i am saying is that what caunte was saying was not trying to be racist he was simply stating that people may have been picked because the bbc were trying not to be 'racist'.

If you think that Sugar is recruiting at board level which is what that FT report was reporting on, you're not paying attention Canute.

So if anybody ever recruits someone who isn't white and male they are being prejudiced. Way to maintain the racist-sexist status quo.

NO that is not what i meant...and you know it.

Question - Does the contestant line up reflect reality?

Answer - No, because the BBC has a PC agenda whereby they are selecting candidates not on the basis of merit alone, but on filling quotas relating to ethnicity and sex. In the real world, the range of candidates that the BBC have selected doesn't actually exist.

Who would agree?

People who accept that the BBC is left leaning and has it's own politically correct agenda. People who agree that a left wing organisation like the BBC would quite happily set quotas for the types of candidates who will be on the programme.

Who would disagree?

People who believe (rightly or wrongly) that the Apprentice is a representation of the "real world of business", and don't want to spoil their illusion of the programme. A bit like believing in the Tooth Fairy.

I haven't referenced an FT report.

I don't think one or two less people of ethic minorities would have made any real impact upon people's perceptions of the show. They've been fairly represented in the past, and will no doubt continue to be so. It's a non-issue.

For me (and I think most others) race is irrelevant when I'm watching the show. It's the personalities that matter, and I'm sure that this is what is at the forefront of the producers minds during the selection process.

To imply that race is the only reason certain individuals are even on the show is both insulting and offensive.

As someone in the middle of writing a dissertation upon that very subject, I find that comment quite laughable in itself.....

That's best left for another thread though.