I actually think criticism/debate of performance is perfectly allowable - isn't that we should be judging them on - but personality & looks is wrong especially as its filtered by the BBC.

For instance whilst a Ben fan I would never say he had the most robust voice - but yes he could sing and whether it was partly nerves or lack of training he sometimes completely mucked up.

Keith has a beautiful voice but IMHO his performances lack heart and he doesn't focus enough on the total performance - it is supposed to be for musical theatre. I actually think the panel have done him a huge disservice by letting this slide as he has had very little incentive to improve.

with bens "spoilt brat" attitude, what did we expect! of course hes going to act like a child now hes been voted out, stamp his feet, throw his toys out of the pram and make snide comments about the other contestants who are more talented than him. jealousy is all it is, and green isn't bens colour!

Cleo - I am getting so tired of your Ben bashing - yes we get it - you think he is the spawn of the devil and probably steals conkers from children. Get over it - he's gone, your happy, I'm sad - life moves on. I just don't understand where such vitriole come from for somebody you have never met.

I agree with you - if there is no criticism or debate, what's the point in posting on these threads? So long as the criticism is not too personal or vindictive I can't see the problem!

Excuse me, can we have some proof please to back up your comments?. Just show me the proof Cleo

what "proof" do you want - that is my opinion of ben based on what i have seen on the tv show ADWD, and even more so after the comment about lee.

This started off from what Ben apparently said about Lee on tv today... it's on the 1st page in this thread, but the multiple quote thing isn't working on my computer!

Couldn't he have just been speaking his mind cleo. God forbid he's actually honest ...

I am still trying to figure out what Lee has that is magical.......he isn't transfixing enough and I think he is so desperate to win that if he does he will expect too much of himself and have a nervous breakdown! its like the last chance saloon in Lee's eyes.............someone so depserate as him will land up being a failure to himself because he wont be able to accept the pressure that is put upon him.
I really dont beleive he believes in himself enough after many knockbacks!

I think Lee absolutely believes in his own talent. He knows he stands head and shoulders above the others when it comes to his craft. But unlike Keith he doesn't behave in an arrogant manner and doesn't put them down. That is what will make Lee a wonderful leading man - he will lead the company with intelligence and sensitivity. He will have the respect of the cast because of that, and because he has worked to achieve the position he is in today.

i just find lee extremely intense

I understand it theatregeek. Ben has star quality - proved by the huge controversy he has unwittingly managed to create on these threads. Love him or hate him, you can't ignore him! Personally I love him

I absolutely agree with this theatregeek. First of all, it's perfectly legitimate to voice concerns about Keith as a performer. This is not 'Keith bashing', it's not personal in any way, it's just stating opinion. For me, acting is a very, very important part of the role and I am not convinced that Keith will do it justice. If he proves me wrong on Saturday, then I'll be delighted. You will notice aswell, that almost every comment that expresses concern about Keith's acting, begins by saying 'he has a lovely voice' - that's hardly bashing, that's just being fair and trying to see the whole picture.

But I really agree with what theatregeek has said about the panel, I don't know why, but they have never addressed this problem which is doing him a big disservice (I think Andrew has, but just in a rather veiled way which has simply confused Keith). It isn't just that Keith's acting needs work, I also believe that he doesn't really understand himself how important it is. This is hardly his fault, because the panel have never told him. And if Andrew decides to make a big deal out of it in the final, and tear him to shreds over it (as he did with Siobhan at exactly the same stage of the competition last year) then that won't be very fair to Keith.

Just adding my voice to those who have gotten really tired of you slating Ben at every given opportunity. Firstly, it is clear to me that Ben and Lee had gotten really close, Lee was obviously gutted for him on Saturday and he sent out a really nice message on his myspace saying that he was sorry he was gone. So I can't imagine him dissing Lee on air. If he said that Lee wasn't the young, poppy Joseph that ALW said he was looking for then he was perfectly right.

You know what cleo, Ben was really, really gracious in defeat on Saturday, if you have it taped, go back and watch it. He wanted it so badly and yet he behaved like a true gentleman when he went. So maybe you should try and give him that much credit.

I loved Seamus too, but so far the only one to 'stamp feet' and 'throw toys out of the pram' has been him.

So do I, and I love it

As far as the 'criticism' posts are concerned, the truth is that we all have our favourites and we all like different things. No one is happy when someone criticises their favourite but it's bound to happen on a forum like this. It's only unacceptable when it turns into an insult about appearance or personality.

Also, on behalf of 'Lee fans', I would like to point out that most of us don't go around making nasty comments about the other contestants and that Lee gets his fair share of criticism from other fans. It's not nice for any of us when it gets personal, but that's the way the world is, unfortunately.

No, that isn't what he said. He said he wasn't "edgy" enough for the role.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean - edgy?

Apologies, that's kind of how I interpreted it, in that he wouldn't bring a 'new' edge to the role. In itself it's rather an odd comment, because IMO Lee is very 'edgy' indeed. Remember 'Paint it Black' (not to mention the now famous VT that came before it )

Exactly - the word is open to various interpretations. I'm not sure any of us can really say what Ben meant by it. Considering that they do seem to have been friendly before, I can only hope it was more of a 'throw away' comment.

And BTW, yes I remember that VT - couldn't possibly forget it

"Can I present, Lee Mead's onions"


Not to mention the 'body for life' (even when you say it in your head, accent is obligatory).

I loved that so much. I wish all VTs were like that (so tired of all the grannies, girlfriends, school bullies and crap day jobs :yawn

Ben's aquarium one was okay too, very random though

Hey, don't forget the press-ups! We're very fond of them

I don't remember Bens aquarium one :cries:

I did love the Ben on Lee VT - my two faves together

The 'facing my greatest fears and swimming with sharks' one (sorry, 'aquarium one' was prob the worst description in the history of the universe )

very random

Oh and Eryndil, how could I forget

Maybe - but i am entitled to my opinion, as are you!

'Ben on Lee' - not sure I saw that one!