Nice to see this track at Number 1! Something had to get rid of Room 5...

I really like Busted, they are a good, happy-go-lucky, high-spirited, cheerful band and in contrast to some of the pap in the charts at present. And whilst this isn't one of the best songs on the album - for me, that accolade goes to Sleeping With The Light On - it's a damn fine tune.

I know they get slated for "pretending" to play guitars but just for the record - they CAN play - and play well. Just a few guys having a laugh and writing some catchy music - is there such harm in that?

Yep, something finally knocked them off the no.1 spot!

wasn't there best song though.

True.

Definitely a big happy smile on my face - the lads deserve it, purely for being EVERYWHERE over the last week promoting the show. They are really good guys by all accounts and don't have any pretensions to being taken seriously as a rock band, which is handy as they're not.

But what they are is a blisteringly-good power pop combo, and while their sleeve notes state that they co-wrote all the songs, I can see that being a bit of record company spin. Nevertheless, there is hardly a wasted second on the album, from the opening strains of "What I Go To School For" to the last bar of the cheeky rework of the aforementioned track "Loser Kid".

I think if they lose any credibility at all it's from the ballads on the album, which are pretty much pure boyband stuff - Westlife could easily have released "Sleeping With The Light On" or "When Day Turns Into Night". But the uptempo songs rock above all else, and the album is definitely vying with Good Charlotte and A Simple Plan for the most-listened-to status in my car!

No one knocks them for being abel to play instruments. People knock them for trying to be punks. Wearing their Baggy shorts, Band T-shirts, scruffy hair and wallet chains and jumping and kicking while playing on stage. The same as Avril Lavign!

They try to be what they are not.... Punks! They try to get in the charts and on on Kiddie TV shows!!! Punk is not a style to try and look trendy! It is an attitude! A way of living! They try to make it main stream and take it to the masses what true punks would never do!!! You can still have leigons of fans who love listaning to your music! NOFX have been playing for over 20 years, never released any singles, done TV intervies etc and they are will known around the world because they are a great band and create great music!!!!!

I agree that on the whole the rockier up-tempo songs beat the ballady ones but I think even for ballads, they do a good job.

A ballad has to be something really spectacular for me to like it. I would say the last ballad I really liked was Aerosmith's I Don't Wanna Miss A Thing, all those years ago!! These guys do a good job of ballad though, they konw how to make them more on the rock-ballad side and less on the dirge side!

No they don't. Pissed off, bitter punk wannabes who have lost their claim to 'their' identity criticise them while wallowing in hypocrisy. Peep this:


Which surely means that *real* punks wouldn't give a toss about 'Baggy shorts, Band T-shirts, scruffy hair and wallet chains'. As indeed they don't. Because real punks *don't* give a toss about mainstream skate-inspired fashion posturing.

And once you accept that, you accept that Busted or Avril Lavigne or whoever do *not* want to be punks, because they are *all* about the image and identifying with the kids who wear 'Baggy shorts, Band T-shirts, scruffy hair and wallet chains'. In fact, the true 'way of living' of punk is so far removed from what *most* people want to live like that they would be mad to even aspire to that...it certainly wouldn't result in number one hits and worldwide fame.


No, they have a legion of fans and are known around the world because (even if you accept that NOFX *are* real punks themselves) real punks got their message out to punker wannabes like yourself and a million others who dug the scene and wanted to be a part of it. And soon that cool, interesting scene got bigger and bigger until the dreaded 'mainstream' took notice, and that's when what you regard as 'real' punk actually started. You're as much of a wannabe as Busted by definition - you both take inspiration from the words, music and image of punk culture. Your problem is that Busted (and pretty much every alt-rock band since the Pistols) have taken that ball and ran with it, opening up new fans to rock music and further diluting it into skatepunk, punk-pop, power pop and more - whereas you and the rest of the posturing punk wannabes sit and moan about how Busted aren't punk...when what you really are pissed at is that suddenly you can't call yourself individual and cool and interesting, because EVERYONE is appropriating bits of 'your' culture.

Where do you draw the line? If Busted aren't punk, are Blink 182? If not Blink, then are Green Day? Offspring? Bad Religion? Op Ivy? NOFX? Oh damn...they might not be punk either, because they sure as hell weren't in the original punk scene of the Seventies. So quit your bitching because if you truly love the punk scene like you claim you'd be happy that its influence is filtering into mainstream pop and that for every kid that listens to Busted, they might go from there to Green Day, from there to NOFX and from there to the NY Dolls. But you're not, because you're too fricking arrogant to accept that you don't *own* your culture - it owns you, and you better evolve with it or you just end up a desperate, laughable hanger-on, which strangely goes against everything you said about punk being a 'way of life'. You really don't have the first clue, do you?

*Rant Over*

Aww, man...what, one bitchslapping is enough to make you fold like a cheap deck of cards?

Back up your position, Junior!

lol. Dont worry dude. I may be down, but i am certainly not out!

Personaly my view is different to yours but, you do have a point about people getting into more old skool punk like the Misfits, Sex Pistols etc by listaning to bands like blink, Green Day and (Dare I say) Avrial Lavign. I got into punk via my mate Gar who introduced me to NOFX and the like. Since then, i have expanded with bands like Misfits, Rancid (who, fair enough, did not start it off), Sex Pistols, Clash etc.

I belive you dont have to go main stream just to get ya music out there. You can have just as much fun with a day job, and writing music in a garage with a few mates and playing basement shows to ya mates in dives (Three Crowns & Rock Gardens in bridgwater rocks!), copy it onto a CD and make a few copys for ya pals. Sure a few bands go further for one reason or another, but (like blink & Green Day), I am sure a multi million $$$ contract is harder to turn down then it sounds.

Also, i dont give a toss about what i wear. I dont care if people stare at me and think "What The ****?" I am an indivdual, I dont have to follow a trend just to feel happy about myself and think "YEA! I AM TOO COOL!" Bands like busted and Avril Lavign anoy me caus they aim streight for the top! The charts, TV aperiences, interviews etc. They are 'polished' by the fat cats of the record labels. Also, they just apear out of nowhere with no previous albums or records in there sleves. Take Sum 41, one record before All Killer No Filler. Blink, even though they are are moe know then bands like NOFX etc, had 3 albums before they were known all over america, and 4 before they were that well known over in the UK! I dont belive Busted OR lavign have had previous albums or played basement shows for the fun of it. Maybe they have, maybe they aint, I dont know for sure.

All i know is that everyone has a different view on what true punk is. In my view, they are not even pop punk.

Wicked mate...I'm glad to read your response at last - and it was much more thought provoking than I gave you credit for!

But that said...

What you're essentially saying is that it's 'not fair' that bands who are picked up by a major straight away (normally because they have both the 'look', the 'sound' and no objection to 'selling out') get huge success and phat ca$h, while bands who slave away for years never see any of that success, recognition and money?

By definition, punks don't care about the money or fame....so nothwithstanding the fact that NOFX, the Misfits, Rancid, The Clash, Sham 69 et al ALL have been made RICH off their music, no punks should give a damn whether another band is making millions pimping punk music to the masses.

Of course, in the real world, punk is just bullsh*t posturing like anything else, and those bands who didn't take the almighty dollar or who were never good enough to be offered it get bitter and cynical and bitch about 'sellouts' and try to convince themselves they are being true to 'the scene'.

And the fans, while they may dig the music, have got so into the scene that they resent some of their heat being stolen by these johnny-come-lately wannabes (and believe me, the old skool 80s punkers who first birthed the California punk scene hate YOU as much as you hate the Busted fans). It's not because they have some high moral duty, protecting the purity of the music...it's because they're pissed off that they aren't so unique and special anymore.

But the thing that really grates is the totally subjective and arbitrary judgement that Rancid or NOFX or Op Ivy are 'better' than Offspring or Blink or Busted simply because they've been around longer and are more 'underground'. Being smalltime doesn't make you better by definition. Indeed, by all normal logic, the better you are, the bigger you are.

Busted may not have 'paid their dues', and hell, they may have been put together by a record company purely because they combine the boyband look with the rock look and are the perfect vehicles for the modified, polished, corporate power pop that they release. But it doesn't mean their songs are any less deserving of respect than your idols over on the Wesside. Objectively, they may actually be BETTER due to higher production values and much stricter quality control of their music.

Of course, any judgement of their music can't go any further due to the complete subjectivity of personal taste. I listen to Busted and get the energy and power of the punk music i love, but with the subtlety and melody of the pop music i love. To my ears, it's like taking the best of each, leaving the worst (in punk music, the discordant nonsense, in pop the shallow mediocrity) and producing the ubersound.

As far as your personal gripe against Busted and Avril...like it or not, what started out as the fashion cues of a very, very small group has grown and been refined and filtered and polished to give the skatepunk/urban look you see everywhere these days. It's so far removed from what punk fashion originally was that i don't think anyone can seriously say Busted and Avril are trying to look like punks.

In a sense you give yourself away as a wannabe punker because you equate that look with what the punk 'look' is. Baggy pants, wallet chains, skate trainers, band t-shirts, ripped shirts etc are as polished and corporate and processed and non-punk as Busted (and NOFX and Bad Religion and Green Day) are.

The difference is that Busted aren't claiming to be punk. They're posturing as being punk pop, when they actually are power pop. But that's just the same as the Californian bands posturing as being punk when they're actually punk pop.

In the end, the music rules, so enjoy it. Listen to Busted's album, and if you don't get into it simply as a rock music lover, then you're dead inside and the image has become more important than the music.

Odelay, i've spoken on this, Essay!

Or maybe (just maybe) he doesn't like the tune. I'm very much into my music and I'm never afraid to admit I've liked the latest Christina Agui(can't spell it) tune, couple Avril Lavigne songs and I'm sure I've enjoyed a Miss Britinanny (sp.) Spears song at least once (god I hope the Digital Spy hard disk goes tits up after this is posted!) whilst listening to the latest ****ed up tunes being played by John Peel but I know for a fact I dont like the latest Busted song - I love my rock music, and live my life by music in general but because I dont like Busted doesn't make me any less empty inside than your good self.

Saying that I don't believe that ElRawns would listen to Busted with an open mind.. but at the same time, knowing the type of music he is into I realise he wouldn't like it whether the image is there or not.

They're not good singers, or good players, and the songs, whilst catchy have no depth at all.

How anyone can refer to these little snots as "good players" is beyond me. Especially when this country produced players such as Clapton, Green, Beck, Page, Bruce, McVie etc...

True...maybe i was speaking to specifically to Rawnsy, i don't think he'll ever let himself like something like Busted. At the end of the day, if you don't like the music because it just doesn't *do* it for you, then that's cool. But don't hate someone's music based on ANYTHING else.

Right. So this country produced Bobby Charlton, Gary Lineker, Alan Shearer, Chris Waddle and David Beckham....so David Unsworth, Steve Carr or Shaun Goater are crap players?

Busted are obviously talented enough to get a record deal and a big push, which automatically puts them in the top, ooh, say half a percent of the nation on the music score. They may not go down as guitar legends in the vein of Clapton, Satriani, Santana, Prince et al, but then again neither will Noel Gallagher, David Bowie or Ray Davies. The difference is that Busted are not fret-wanking axemen, but competent, complete pop performers. It's like saying Linford Christie is crap because he doesn't drive as well as Michael Schumacher.

Besides, you're not even judging their music on its merits. Power pop is not prog rock, nor is it an exercise in lyrical genius. I could just as easily turn around and blast Jimmy Page as being useless because none of his songs adequately explore teen angst!

I suggest you stop erroneously judging the merits of music on criteria one would only tenuously, if at all, choose to judge even classic guitar rock by.

It's been fascinating reading the replies on this thread - such a welcome change from the "you're crap" / "no you're crap" / "you smell. And yo' moma" type arguments we usually see.

This is what lively forum debate should be all about! A few people with a difference of opinion, eloquently and precisely putting across their side of the argument without resorting to petty squabling or insult-chucking. And while I've found myself agreeing with FastEddie moreso than anyone else, the counter-arguments have not only been interesting reading but also quite enlightening. Superb!

Lots of people have a thing for categorising and pigeon-holing bands. Personally, I take everything new with an open slate; if it appeals to me, then I'll like it and investigate other similar tunes that I might like also. If I don't like it, then fair enough, but I don't write-off every similar band just because of some categorisation.

I agree with most of your points Eddie in a general way.
Personally, I'd just like to hear them play live, before I form an opinion. My gut instinct at the moment is 'I dont like them much'.
However, I have great respect for any style of music thats actually played live, even if its a genre I'm not fond of.
I suppose I want to be reassured thay can play the instruments, and its not a milli vanilli of guitars type thing. I dont think it is, but I'd like to hear for myself .

Eddie is the man the true showstopper the main event, The guy knows his stuff and anyone who disagrees with him ? He will layeth the smacketh down on all their candy asses.

I understand all that...and in many ways my position is as directly a reaction to holding that opinion in my youth as much as it is against those who blanket-condemn a genre of music blindly with no real logic.

Let me explain a little further. When i was sixteen or seventeen, I was a *HUGE* music fan. In '94 i went to Glastonbury, Reading, Phoenix, Donnington...not to mention Oasis at the Leadmill in Sheffield and Blur at the Duchess in Leeds. I was a real indie kid and was PASSIONATE about my music.

The problem was, although I believe I loved the music (and i did), I also was totally blinkered to not only contemporary genres but also music I had liked in the past. I threw out my old tapes of Whitesnake, Bon Jovi, Run DMC, Falco, Duran Duran, Madness, Guns'N'Roses etc, believing them to be beneath contempt. Furthermore, I disregarded much of my parents' vast collection of music as totally naff, grabbing only their Kinks and Small Faces collection for my use. That's without even counting the slating I gave groups like Hootie And The Blowfish, Shampoo, Eternal, James who i did not regard as worth consideration as 'music'.

It wasn't until I got to university and not only came into contact with a much wider variety of music, but also started on the student radio and was forced to play all manner of songs that I realised what a sad, blinkered fool i had been. Once i went to the second-hand record shop and spent about £300 on CDs, not to mention raiding my parents' CD collections afresh, it was the closest thing to pure enlightenment I have ever felt. Music had always been important to me, but it became a passion and a quest for knowledge the likes of which I had never experienced. At last I could feel that I was a 'true' music fan - embracing music for what it said to me rather than what NME or the marketing told me it was about. I have discovered literally hundreds of amazing, life-changing songs since then, and my passion remains undiminished.

Sometimes I think I may come across as an evangelist whose arrogance is astounding. It's not from any other source but my wish that others feel about music the way I do. It angers me beyond belief when people dismiss even one artist based on either preconceptions or one particular song, let alone an entire genre.

But what is worse in my eyes than blindly following one musical genre like a football team is people making subjective judgements on music based entirely on preconceptions of 'worthiness' or 'talent' or 'deservedness'.

Milli Vanilli were frauds. They did not perform the songs they made money from. But that does not negate the value of the song. Even though it may have been a terrible decision on their part, the guys who wrote and performed that song got their credits, they got their cash, and they got to hear their song on the radio. Everyone involved in that whole sorry affair should hang their heads in shame, but the songs (even though they are rarely heard these days) should not be tarnished by the events surrounding them.

Likewise Busted. If it turns out that they merely pose with the guitars, that they DIDN'T actually write the songs they are credited as co-writers of on the album (all the songs on the album are written by the members of Busted plus 'others'), and subsequently are shamed publicly, it doesn't change the fact that the album was brilliant (IMO of course...although I shouldn't have to state that as all such judgements are by definition purely personal).

If I paid my good money to see Busted live and they came out and mimed, I would feel a tad miffed. Then again, part of Busted's appeal to me lies in their performance in its entirity (their videos are a blast for one), and so i wouldn't be there solely for the music.

At the end of the day, if you need to respect the artist's musical pedigree before enjoying their music then you have a very different view to what music is about to me. Without getting into any arguments about the relative values of being able to play an instrument over being able to sing over being able to dance over being able to make you laugh over being able to sequence a dance track over being able to rap over being able to scratch...

I fall in love with music that makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
I fall in love with music that COMPELLS me to sing along.
I fall in love with music that makes me remember events in my life.
I fall in love with music that fills me with that energy, that gets the endorphins pumping, that makes me feel whole.
I fall in love with music because it completes my life.

I guess that's what I define as 'being a music lover'. It just makes me so sad to see people build walls that prevent them from finding as many pieces of music as possible that do all those things.

(Talk about cathartic...that was the first time i think i've ever really put down those feelings on paper (or in a database!)). Thanks all...this is a great discussion

Dunno why you're comparing football to pop music.


Yes, along with the Cheeky Girls.



Considering I've never actually seen them play live I can't really comment on how competent they are, but the fact they don't play live, leads me to believe they aren't.

Ray Davies, David Bowie and Noel will all go down as people who wrote great, memorable songs - Busted won't.



Well it's not. Really.


Okay... great pop bands... Beatles, Beach Boys, Fleetwood Mac, Abba, Oasis... The first 3 had good/great players, masters of production, good harmonising, good live performers, and they all have written some great pop songs. Busted aren't in the same league.


Whats that got to do with musicianship though?


Yes, judging a band on how well they play, how good their songs are, and how much personality they have between them is just silly.

Making pithy, one line retorts may make you feel wonderful, but it doesn't win arguments.

If you'd broken from your busy schedule of cutting my post down into little chunks for you to quip back at, you'd realise that you've countered NOTHING of my argument.

Your argument is based ENTIRELY on totally subjective appraisals of bands based on your flawed logic that musicianship = good music. Crap.

It does a great disservice to the team behind Busted, who (even if the band themselves are talentless pop muppets as you believe) clearly have musical nous extending far beyond what most ever achieve to produce potentially the first real breakthrough power pop band since The Jam.

You say Busted aren't in the same league as Fleetwood Mac, Abba, Beatles, Oasis et al...well bloody hell, that leaves a whole lot of ground for them to cover....they aren't as good as the most legendary pop bands in history, well might as well take them out back and shoot them in the head then.

Nobody's claiming Busted are the greatest band ever. What they are claiming is that Busted are a perfectly acceptable pop band, and only a complete imbecile would deny that.

Apart from that, your argument is based entirely on personal taste, and is thus entirely flawed. And if you can't comprehend the parellels drawn between music and football, and can't make a point without returning to the hackneyed cliché of "if x can get a record deal, then anyone can", then your opinion carries no weight at all.

As a band that will have a minor bit of success for about 9 months, they're fine... But the truth is, after their success they will become another band that most people will struggle to remember. Why? Because there isn't one great thing about them... Be it the songs, their playing, their performing, their personalities.

My references to people like Clapton and Beck were a response to somebody saying that the guys in Busted were good players. If somebody said Noel Gallagher was a good player I would have replied with a similar post.

I'm not snobbish about music... If a song is good, it's good... I quite liked a couple of S Club 7's songs. I just don't think these 3 have anything really going for them. The fact the main ones eyebrows get more attention than anything else says it all.

Plus, that very same one once cut me up in HMV in Oxford Street.

I am rather suprised how much in depth discussion this thread has created, which is a good thing. I can see how other people look at and apreciate music........


Not true. When i did listan to their first song (I saw them play live on CBBC) I knew that i would not like their music. Also, I did not like them because you could tell that they were....not exatly manifactured, but more pollished and specaly aimed at the more mainstream pop genara and a younger audience.


If a band is good, i would admit that. The music is more important then the way they look.


FastEddie.


That was not really what I ment. Maybe bands who do not get 'picked up by a major streight away' dont want to. Fair enough, I am sure bands like NOFX, No Use and Rancid do get more then penuts for recording and playing gigs, but maybe the reason they play is to get a message out to the people who listan to their music. And People like fat mike (NOFX) and Tim Armstrong (Rancid) create their own labels (Fat Wreck Chords and Epitaph) so they can give bands who sign to them the fredom then what other labels like sony and Virgin would never give them. They would give them the fredom they had when they first started out with, playing when and where they wanted, playing to fans who love the music they create, record when they want etc. Not so the Fat cats at Sony and and all the other labels can rake in wads of ching ching.....

OK. Some people may like the music busted create but the fact is, they are a tool being used by the dicks at Sony to earn them large amounts of money.

Just to throw something into this discussion, on TOTP tonight Busted were at the very least singing live. They also "looked" like they were playing live, but I'm no expert. It looked to me that Charlie (posh totty with caterpillar eyebrows) was actually playing the drums live. Those with more musical expertise than I who want to judge, might to want to catch the repeat.

Not sure about FWC (although didn't Mike sell out to Warner Music, or at least give them a significant interest in the company, i don't remember) but Epitaph (and by the time they sold it was not just Tim but about 10 investors) sold out BIG TIME to Sony. An artist releasing records on Epitaph gets the kudos of playing on a 'punk' label but with the benefits of major label backing, and Sony get the phat cash while all the time foolinmg the kids that Epitaph are some sort of independent label with a conscience.

Believe me, the record companies will stoop as low as needed to make their coin. It's easy for the average Joe to spot the cynicism with which Busted are marketed, but that same cynicism is being used to pimp your music to you, bro. And in the end it's lining the pockets of the same fat corporate suits.

Oh, and Tim Armstrong is a multi-millionaire. Not bad work for a skate kid from Oakland.