SACD Multichannel

dodolurker · 17-06-2007, 18:36

Hi, been reading lots of posts on the many forums here but couldnt really find an answer to what I'm looking for, so I'm hoping someone here can help.

I need a new hi-fi and want to go for an SACD multichannel system - primarily because my favourite band, Genesis (stop sniggering at the back of the class), are releasing their entire back catalogue in remixed 5.1 SACD. So I'm looking for a multichannel SACD system - player, speakers, everything. It appears that there are no 5.1 audio-only 'hi-fi' systems around - only 'home cinema systems' that play SACD multichannel in addition to DVD, DTS, Dolby 5.1 etc. I hear what people say about all-in-1 home cinema systems but I would prefer this to separates as it seems easier and, er, neater and with £600 or so to spend I'm hoping this will get me something approaching 'hi-fi' quality audio.

For me, the 5.1 bit is all about the music not films. I'm sure the video aspect will be just fine, its the audio that really matters to me because the system will be almost exclusively used to play music.

I will purchase other SACDs, such as DSOM and Brothers in Arms, but its mainly for the Genesis stuff.

There don't seem to be that many systems like this around, but I've found a few, such as Philips' HTS9800W, Samsung's HT-P1200, and of course a few Sony systems - like the AVE835 PASCAL and maybe the DAV-DZ410. though I suspect the latter's low price tag gives an indication of its sound quality...

Any advice, information or suggestions welcome.

Jeff

Jarrak · 17-06-2007, 20:07

Just make sure you have an amp that has 6 channel analogue RCA inputs which would then connect to the SACD (and/or DVD-A) DVD player.

All in one systems tend to be built to a budget hence the lack of SACD/DVD-A support especially given the formats "failure" to grow.

peterho · 17-06-2007, 20:40

I have a sony z810 and have a large collection of sacds,I also will be getting genesis albums soon,the sound quality is excellent especially brothers in arms,war of the worlds and moody blues discs.
The z810 is i think just about to be replaced by the z830.

veryclever · 17-06-2007, 20:53

Pioneer players usually support SACD and DVDA and have the necessary outputs.

Main thing will be ensuring the amp has the inputs.

Chances of any all in one system offering genuine 5.1 from SACD are pretty slim.

Check that any equipment you buy will play SACD in 5.1 and not just in regular 2 channel sound like some units do

niall campbell · 18-06-2007, 13:52

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...UK%7CcountryGB

doing a google certainly brings up plenty players

think you need to go and listen to them

TheCmeister · 18-06-2007, 15:19

If your after high quality audio and outputs, get a machine that is not a dvd player such as marantz's sa7001.

nordowns · 19-06-2007, 07:27

SACD ( and audio DVD) have the major musical plus of providing a higher dynamic range and frequency response than standard CD's.
The digital sampling compromise which was the original CD criticism and left the enthusiast still remaining with analogue vinyl should now be a thing of the past.
However to achieve the optimum musical quality you DO need to invest in a high quality amplifier AND high quality speakers.
Advice:-
Fix your budget and spend HALF of it on speakers!!!!!!!
You do need a 'quality' SACD player and 6 channel input amplifier!

The musical values are worth waiting for!

edbishop · 19-06-2007, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by nordowns

SACD ( and audio DVD) have the major musical plus of providing a higher dynamic range and frequency response than standard CD's.
The digital sampling compromise which was the original CD criticism and left the enthusiast still remaining with analogue vinyl should now be a thing of the past.
However to achieve the optimum musical quality you DO need to invest in a high quality amplifier AND high quality speakers.
Advice:-
Fix your budget and spend HALF of it on speakers!!!!!!!
You do need a 'quality' SACD player and 6 channel input amplifier!

The musical values are worth waiting for!

The only problem is that DVD-A and SACD are pretty much dead/dying formats.

There is no immediacy to the improved sound compared to cd like there was when watching a dvd for the first time.

I think for SACD to have any future ,all the new releases should at least be remixed into 5.1.

War of the Worlds and Dark Side of the Moon were awesome.
But The Police albums were still stereo and unless you could switch between the SACD and the CD at the same time the difference was not that noticeable

nordowns · 20-06-2007, 07:34

I am surprised to hear from edbishop that SACD and DVD-A are dying formats.
Undoubtably there is unlikely to be a mass market and the significant improvements are subtle and DO NEED good equipment to gain the listening benefits.
My interests are primarilly in 'classical' music and when some recent publications have combined excellent performances and recording with the SACD format, the clarity and presence becomes outstanding.
The main step forward does NOT lie in the 5.1 channels, nor would 7.1, produce a better presence.

So:- in my opinion:-
a) if you really appreciate good music and want to get the very best reproduction then go for good disk player with SACD and DVD-A options.
b) Try out various amplifier/ speaker combinations to suit your taste/ room etc. but do not stint.
c) For those exceptional performances invest in the new formats.

Nigel Goodwin · 20-06-2007, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by nordowns

I am surprised to hear from edbishop that SACD and DVD-A are dying formats.

I thought they were long dead and gone?, they never managed any sort of market penetration and the slight performance increase wasn't good enough value for the costs involved.

nordowns · 20-06-2007, 10:56

There are currently 1,507 SACD titles available from Amazon, UK

Nigel Goodwin · 20-06-2007, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by nordowns

There are currently 1,507 SACD titles available from Amazon, UK

And how many normal CD titles?.

dodolurker · 20-06-2007, 12:55

The demise of SACD has been predicted many times - just been reading about "the demise of ... Sony's new SACD format" - in an article dated Nov 1999! And many times thereafter..

ah well, sooner or later they'll get it right I suppose..

PS, according to:
http://www.sa-cd.net/support.php

its well over 4000 titles

dodolurker · 20-06-2007, 13:05

The Sony DAV-DZ810 all-in-1 SACD 5.1 system seems to get lots of great reviews, not least for its SQ... and for less than £500 seems relatively good value..

is there anyone here who has heard one and remains unimpressed?

edbishop · 20-06-2007, 22:02

SACD is a very niche product.

Its even more niche than laserdisc.

Many titles available in the US are not out in the UK.

Take a look at PLAY.COM and see what you think.

nordowns · 21-06-2007, 08:05

Lots of good comments!!!

To summarise:-
a) CD's have limitations due to the chosen sampling rate and to the fact that dynamic range is frequently 'chopped' to allow use in low quality equipment.
b) If you have a good musical 'ear' you should be able to appreciate the improved clarity and range of a well produced SACD.
c) You will need good quality player/ amp/ speaker systems to really appreciate the improvement.
d) as a 'niche' medium title range will be limited.

So:-
If you are investing in new hi-fi/ surround sound equipment and are sufficiently discerning to appreciate the better sound then go for it. However you DO need to LISTEN to the Sony or any other kit before parting with £500!!

I have a carefully selected hardware package, evolved over a period of time and DO really enjoy SACD's

Bon chance!!!!!!!!!!

webbie · 21-06-2007, 13:01

I'd have a look at players that can play DVD-Audio disks as well as SA-CD. Pioneer, Denon etc. That rules Sony out!

xavster · 21-06-2007, 14:36

It really depends on what sort of music you like as to whether SACD is dead or not.
If you mainly listen to Classical, there are many new releases on excellent "proper" (ie not just "audiophile") labels, such as BIS, Channel Classics, Chandos, Hyperion. Often you 'll find editors recommendations in Gramophone magazines are available on SACD. SACD really is wonderful for classical music - a huge improvement in realism.
Other genres seem to be less successful, for a variety of reasons, but personally I've found the multi-channel effects a bit gimmicky in eg pop music - unlike the extra "ambience" you tend to hear in classical music.

If I was setting up an m/c system, I'd be looking at 2nd hand stuff and try and make sure I get a dedicated SACD player (too many of the universal players convert the DSD stream to PCM - losing most of the point of SACD!!).
I'd also try and get identical speakers (or at least from the same range) and try to avoid all bass management (again this can lead to conversion to PCM)

17-06-2007, 18:36	#1
dodolurker Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3	SACD Multichannel Hi, been reading lots of posts on the many forums here but couldnt really find an answer to what I'm looking for, so I'm hoping someone here can help. I need a new hi-fi and want to go for an SACD multichannel system - primarily because my favourite band, Genesis (stop sniggering at the back of the class), are releasing their entire back catalogue in remixed 5.1 SACD. So I'm looking for a multichannel SACD system - player, speakers, everything. It appears that there are no 5.1 audio-only 'hi-fi' systems around - only 'home cinema systems' that play SACD multichannel in addition to DVD, DTS, Dolby 5.1 etc. I hear what people say about all-in-1 home cinema systems but I would prefer this to separates as it seems easier and, er, neater and with £600 or so to spend I'm hoping this will get me something approaching 'hi-fi' quality audio. For me, the 5.1 bit is all about the music not films. I'm sure the video aspect will be just fine, its the audio that really matters to me because the system will be almost exclusively used to play music. I will purchase other SACDs, such as DSOM and Brothers in Arms, but its mainly for the Genesis stuff. There don't seem to be that many systems like this around, but I've found a few, such as Philips' HTS9800W, Samsung's HT-P1200, and of course a few Sony systems - like the AVE835 PASCAL and maybe the DAV-DZ410. though I suspect the latter's low price tag gives an indication of its sound quality... Any advice, information or suggestions welcome. Jeff

20-06-2007, 13:05	#14
dodolurker Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3	Sony DAV-DZ810 The Sony DAV-DZ810 all-in-1 SACD 5.1 system seems to get lots of great reviews, not least for its SQ... and for less than £500 seems relatively good value.. is there anyone here who has heard one and remains unimpressed?

17-06-2007, 20:07	#2
Jarrak Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ilkeston Posts: 18,075	Just make sure you have an amp that has 6 channel analogue RCA inputs which would then connect to the SACD (and/or DVD-A) DVD player. All in one systems tend to be built to a budget hence the lack of SACD/DVD-A support especially given the formats "failure" to grow.

17-06-2007, 20:40	#3
peterho Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2	I have a sony z810 and have a large collection of sacds,I also will be getting genesis albums soon,the sound quality is excellent especially brothers in arms,war of the worlds and moody blues discs. The z810 is i think just about to be replaced by the z830.

17-06-2007, 20:53	#4
veryclever Banned User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 84	Pioneer players usually support SACD and DVDA and have the necessary outputs. Main thing will be ensuring the amp has the inputs. Chances of any all in one system offering genuine 5.1 from SACD are pretty slim. Check that any equipment you buy will play SACD in 5.1 and not just in regular 2 channel sound like some units do

18-06-2007, 13:52	#5
niall campbell Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Aberfeldy Posts: 7,035	http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...UK%7CcountryGB doing a google certainly brings up plenty players think you need to go and listen to them

18-06-2007, 15:19	#6
TheCmeister Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 209	If your after high quality audio and outputs, get a machine that is not a dvd player such as marantz's sa7001.

19-06-2007, 07:27	#7
nordowns Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 67	SACD ( and audio DVD) have the major musical plus of providing a higher dynamic range and frequency response than standard CD's. The digital sampling compromise which was the original CD criticism and left the enthusiast still remaining with analogue vinyl should now be a thing of the past. However to achieve the optimum musical quality you DO need to invest in a high quality amplifier AND high quality speakers. Advice:- Fix your budget and spend HALF of it on speakers!!!!!!! You do need a 'quality' SACD player and 6 channel input amplifier! The musical values are worth waiting for!

19-06-2007, 22:04	#8
edbishop Banned User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 313	Quote: Originally Posted by nordowns SACD ( and audio DVD) have the major musical plus of providing a higher dynamic range and frequency response than standard CD's. The digital sampling compromise which was the original CD criticism and left the enthusiast still remaining with analogue vinyl should now be a thing of the past. However to achieve the optimum musical quality you DO need to invest in a high quality amplifier AND high quality speakers. Advice:- Fix your budget and spend HALF of it on speakers!!!!!!! You do need a 'quality' SACD player and 6 channel input amplifier! The musical values are worth waiting for! The only problem is that DVD-A and SACD are pretty much dead/dying formats. There is no immediacy to the improved sound compared to cd like there was when watching a dvd for the first time. I think for SACD to have any future ,all the new releases should at least be remixed into 5.1. War of the Worlds and Dark Side of the Moon were awesome. But The Police albums were still stereo and unless you could switch between the SACD and the CD at the same time the difference was not that noticeable

20-06-2007, 07:34	#9
nordowns Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 67	I am surprised to hear from edbishop that SACD and DVD-A are dying formats. Undoubtably there is unlikely to be a mass market and the significant improvements are subtle and DO NEED good equipment to gain the listening benefits. My interests are primarilly in 'classical' music and when some recent publications have combined excellent performances and recording with the SACD format, the clarity and presence becomes outstanding. The main step forward does NOT lie in the 5.1 channels, nor would 7.1, produce a better presence. So:- in my opinion:- a) if you really appreciate good music and want to get the very best reproduction then go for good disk player with SACD and DVD-A options. b) Try out various amplifier/ speaker combinations to suit your taste/ room etc. but do not stint. c) For those exceptional performances invest in the new formats.

20-06-2007, 09:39	#10
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by nordowns I am surprised to hear from edbishop that SACD and DVD-A are dying formats. I thought they were long dead and gone?, they never managed any sort of market penetration and the slight performance increase wasn't good enough value for the costs involved.

20-06-2007, 10:56	#11
nordowns Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 67	There are currently 1,507 SACD titles available from Amazon, UK

20-06-2007, 11:11	#12
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by nordowns There are currently 1,507 SACD titles available from Amazon, UK And how many normal CD titles?.

20-06-2007, 12:55	#13
dodolurker Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3	The demise of SACD has been predicted many times - just been reading about "the demise of ... Sony's new SACD format" - in an article dated Nov 1999! And many times thereafter.. ah well, sooner or later they'll get it right I suppose.. PS, according to: http://www.sa-cd.net/support.php its well over 4000 titles

20-06-2007, 22:02	#15
edbishop Banned User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 313	SACD is a very niche product. Its even more niche than laserdisc. Many titles available in the US are not out in the UK. Take a look at PLAY.COM and see what you think.

21-06-2007, 08:05	#16
nordowns Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 67	Lots of good comments!!! To summarise:- a) CD's have limitations due to the chosen sampling rate and to the fact that dynamic range is frequently 'chopped' to allow use in low quality equipment. b) If you have a good musical 'ear' you should be able to appreciate the improved clarity and range of a well produced SACD. c) You will need good quality player/ amp/ speaker systems to really appreciate the improvement. d) as a 'niche' medium title range will be limited. So:- If you are investing in new hi-fi/ surround sound equipment and are sufficiently discerning to appreciate the better sound then go for it. However you DO need to LISTEN to the Sony or any other kit before parting with £500!! I have a carefully selected hardware package, evolved over a period of time and DO really enjoy SACD's Bon chance!!!!!!!!!!

21-06-2007, 13:01	#17
webbie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Devon Posts: 1,568	I'd have a look at players that can play DVD-Audio disks as well as SA-CD. Pioneer, Denon etc. That rules Sony out!

21-06-2007, 14:36	#18
xavster Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 49	It really depends on what sort of music you like as to whether SACD is dead or not. If you mainly listen to Classical, there are many new releases on excellent "proper" (ie not just "audiophile") labels, such as BIS, Channel Classics, Chandos, Hyperion. Often you 'll find editors recommendations in Gramophone magazines are available on SACD. SACD really is wonderful for classical music - a huge improvement in realism. Other genres seem to be less successful, for a variety of reasons, but personally I've found the multi-channel effects a bit gimmicky in eg pop music - unlike the extra "ambience" you tend to hear in classical music. If I was setting up an m/c system, I'd be looking at 2nd hand stuff and try and make sure I get a dedicated SACD player (too many of the universal players convert the DSD stream to PCM - losing most of the point of SACD!!). I'd also try and get identical speakers (or at least from the same range) and try to avoid all bass management (again this can lead to conversion to PCM)

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