I can totally understand where you are coming from but I don't think America's player had all that much bearing on it. Eric was taking no notice of any of America's choices until he made a deal with the Denatos for F4, maybe he would have still made that decision without America.

He said that he would have got rid of them earlier instead of Dustin, Amber, etc.

Yeah that's what he says now

Yes, exactly, Eric is just saying that as he thinks he would have won it if he wasn't America's player.

Maybe, but it does tie with the direction he was heading at the start of the show. Also, out of all the HMs he was probably the most clued up when it comes to BB, and anyone with half a brain who has seen the show before would know that the Denatos were a huge threat if they were both left in the house (and that's before Dani started winning the comps!).

He would also know that he was better off with a secret alliance with D&D. Especially when Amber and Jameka were too dumb to work it out and they could play both sides.

He would have also gone the week Danielle put him up if it wasn't for the producers pushing Dustin and Amber to keep him around.

Eric? Yeah but the producers can't force anyone to do anything. I bet Dick/Dani didn't let the DR tell them what to do!

Believe me they can sway people, Jen said once that she was sick of them trying to force her to keep Eric that week.

Of course they didn't want him to go that early did they, What I am saying we can all say IF and MAYBE etc

Yeah I know what you are saying. It's just they can't fix it, they can help sway things. It has happened since Survivor Season 1. The producers questioned whether it would be a good movie to vote out Rudi. If people choose to do what they are told, more fool them!!

No I definitely don't agree with that. Eric was 100% voting out Dick in the week America told him to evict Dustin, 100% Dick would have gone that week without AP.

You could argue that in the week he didn't take the oppertunity to backdoor Daniele and said it was because he knew what America wanted, he was only saying that because he knew it's what America wanted to hear. That's a grey area I agree (though I think given how he'd played the game and every thing he was saying it's pretty obvious what his true desire/intention was). But the Dick eviction wasn't a grey area.

As for producer manipulation, again fair point...but if we go with that, I have to discount every player and winner of every reality tv show ever, as I am sure they have always and will always to continue to try and push for things and manipulate the show at least some what...that's just a given isn't it? Same as the UK show, same as the Aus show, same as Survivor etc etc

Exactly my point so you can't say things would have turned out differently if Eric wasn't AP because he could have easily gone the week Kail went so let's just go with what we have the best 2 possible

I am aware I am being anal about it, don't worry. I wish I could 'get over it' and just take it at face value...but I just can't for some reason.

The fact is, the final 3 (have not seen ep 31 yet) is the final 3 due to America's votes, their own game play becomes irrelevant...because the whole point of BBUSA is that it's all internal...and the two people who benefited the most throughout the season from AP are Dick and Daniele (8 out of 10 of them voting in favour of their plans and alliances, even if they weren't direct votes to save them etc).

Gaaaaah, my poor brain lol

Right, I'm going to discuss Episode 31 now so if you have not watched....


A Donato Final 2 These two have played the game throughout the whole season and have played the best game. The argument that it was AP that got them there is rubbish, as is the idea of producers manipulating the result

Reality TV gameshows like this and Survivor are not for the most popular person to win. It is the best strategist and the best game player. Lisa, Drew & Boogie have all been awful winners and people who never deserved to win but we have a Final 2 of people who played the game, did not float and did not play UTR. People complain when a UTR player wins the game but when two of the best strategic players in BBUSA make the Final 2 it is bad?

Maggie & Jun were not popular players yet they still won and regardless of how you feel about them they played the game and beat the good guys.

I for one am happy Zach, Jameka or Amber did not win. I'm glad we have a deserving Final 2 because when have we ever had that before?

Hopefully Danielle can beat Dick but we'll have to wait and see Bring on Tuesday

I agree with Starlet. I'm also horrified by the final 3 we have...it's anything but ideal, from my point of view. I really wanted Jessica to win, actually.

However, without AP coming into swing, I feel like the series may have lost its classic moments...namely the swing of power and downfall of the lnc. Also, I feel as if the final 3 could've been even more loathesome. Had Dick and Daniele crumbled around week 6, then I would've been gutted; I liked them! We may have found Dustin, Amber and Eric in the final three, which would have been just as bad, I feel.

The only way this season would end well is if Jen were in the final two

I just posted right after and saw that! I know you warned, but you could've at least done spoiler tags...

Mitch I do agree with you this is the best final 2 possible and Jen made me laugh "I am the toughest competitor" no you were a good competitor but not the best.

EDIT: Johnny to be fair this thread is to discuss the episodes

I know, but when I entered the thread his post wasn't there. I'd also forgotten that the episode had already been broadcast.

Anyway, I'm not really complaining; I'm just slightly disappointed it wasn't a surprise.

And there's no 'h' in my name!

well it's rather late now but It is always Monday, Wednesday and Friday for us and I realised there was no h in your name after I posted but couldn't be bothered to edit it

Yes, but I hadn't written it up on my calendar

And regardless, there is no 'h' in my name.

Sorry i thought it was easy to remember when the programme was available to download and therefore able to discuss in this thread

anyway like I have said the best final 2 possible the jury questions are going to be great there are going to be ALOT of bitter people mainly Jen, Dustin and possibly Jessica.

Jen was definitely one of the toughest though in terms of the abuse she took from Dick in the early weeks, it was one of the reasons she became my fave housemate, she was so relaxed and smiley about it all and didn't let him break her down. Unlike Amber and Jameka and Dustin who he totally demolished. Jen went crazy in her last week though and that led to her own downfall unfortunately.

That's what I say and I'm glad someone agrees with me.

I apologise for asking about spoilers in this thread, I will know better in future.

Apology accepted.

Although I hate the Donato's as much as anyone, in retrospect I'm quite happy with the two of them being final two.

Ofcourse, I would have preferred others. Would have loved Jen to be there. But, at the same time, it seems fitting that it would be the Donatos, since the two of them have definitely been the stand-out players of this season (with a little help from America, I know), and have dominated the season.

They deserve to be rewarded for it, since BBUS shouldn't be about rewarding the nice guys. Especially this year when the 'nice guys' (eg. Dustin, Amber, Jameka, Eric, etc) wern't even that nice.