And i guess its discrimination to African and Caribbean born black women since they don't fit the criteria of being born in Britain.
Black women only fashion show: how?
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Originally Posted by Lush_Lola:
“What is wrong with celebrating your culture or where you come from?. People of all different backgrounds celebrate it, why is it only an issue when its black?”
“What is wrong with celebrating your culture or where you come from?. People of all different backgrounds celebrate it, why is it only an issue when its black?”
There is NOTHING wrong with it but if it was a Caucasian only fashion show the PC brigade would be up in arms. As a half Irish woman it is fine for me to celebrate St Patrick's Day but as a bitty part English woman it is frowned upon to celebrate St George's Day. For some reason being English and patriotic is akin to being racist.
Originally Posted by Lush_Lola:
“What is wrong with celebrating your culture or where you come from?. People of all different backgrounds celebrate it, why is it only an issue when its black?”
“What is wrong with celebrating your culture or where you come from?. People of all different backgrounds celebrate it, why is it only an issue when its black?”
Nothing whatsoever wrong with celebrating your culture. Fair play to anyone who does. When my own culture celebrates (I am Irish born and bred), everyone is welcome to come along. But thats not the case here, is it? In this instance, people who are not of the same ethnic grouping are being excluded.
Originally Posted by Choochy:
“There is NOTHING wrong with it but if it was a Caucasian only fashion show the PC brigade would be up in arms. As a half Irish woman it is fine for me to celebrate St Patrick's Day but as a bitty part English woman it is frowned upon to celebrate St George's Day. For some reason being English and patriotic is akin to being racist.”
“There is NOTHING wrong with it but if it was a Caucasian only fashion show the PC brigade would be up in arms. As a half Irish woman it is fine for me to celebrate St Patrick's Day but as a bitty part English woman it is frowned upon to celebrate St George's Day. For some reason being English and patriotic is akin to being racist.”
but the question is why in a majoritarian "white" country would you want to hold a Miss White Britain contest? doesn't it sound a bit iffy to you?
The same applies to a majoritarian black country ie Nigeria where there are a quiet a few white people holding a "Miss black Nigeria" contest.
I can kindasee what you mean but i'm trying to understand why it's such a big issue?.
is it because you personally would like to partcipiate in the contest?
Or because if it was a white contest held in the UK people would accuse it of being racist?
is it because you personally would like to partcipiate in the contest?
Or because if it was a white contest held in the UK people would accuse it of being racist?
Originally Posted by Lush_Lola:
“I can kindasee what you mean but i'm trying to understand why it's such a big issue?.
is it because you personally would like to partcipiate in the contest?
Or because if it was a white contest held in the UK people would accuse it of being racist?”
“I can kindasee what you mean but i'm trying to understand why it's such a big issue?.
is it because you personally would like to partcipiate in the contest?
Or because if it was a white contest held in the UK people would accuse it of being racist?”
The latter. The (White) English are made to feel like racists (usually by white PC do-gooders) if they want to celebrate their heritage. I see England/Britain as a place made up of people from many creeds and cultures but it's origins are white Anglo-Saxon just as South Africa belongs to Africans, not the Dutch and the USA to native Americans.
Originally Posted by johnny utah:
“This says to me that black women in general are not as attractive as other races, so they will organise an event especially for them. It can annoy both ways, white people can think its racist, black people can think its patronising.”
“This says to me that black women in general are not as attractive as other races, so they will organise an event especially for them. It can annoy both ways, white people can think its racist, black people can think its patronising.”
I can see the issue with your statement above. Did you mean that perhaps black women may not consider themselves as attractive as possibly they feel excluded from the white fashion shows to some extent, and not that they aren't in reality just as attractive, in general terms, as all other races ?
Originally Posted by Prince Monalulu:
“Oh dear, you want to read that back and think about it a little more.
Attractive in the case of most beauty pageants = Caucasian features, assuming we're talking about the UK here.
If you're holding the pageant in, for example Ghana, then things would be different.”
“Oh dear, you want to read that back and think about it a little more.
Attractive in the case of most beauty pageants = Caucasian features, assuming we're talking about the UK here.
If you're holding the pageant in, for example Ghana, then things would be different.”
Well I've read through the arguments, and all the odd technical post misquotes on here today involving Toxic Bunni and joe2_snj, and to be absolutely honest, I can't see the relevance of Ghana either.
Incidentally the post misquotes thing isn't relevant, just thought I'd throw it in anyway.
Originally Posted by Choochy:
“England/Britain... origins are white Anglo-Saxon”
“England/Britain... origins are white Anglo-Saxon”
Britain belongs to a load of German invaders?
What difference does the colour of skin the people who first lived in a country had make to anything?
Can someone tell me if the reason England hardly celebrate St Georges day because it would be seen as racist?.
Why is it St Patricks day gets world wide recognition and St G passes by like any other day?. And if it is seen as racist why isnt it it the case for Scotland and Wales?
To be honest I couldn't even tell you what day it falls on and i've lived here nearing 25 years.
Why is it St Patricks day gets world wide recognition and St G passes by like any other day?. And if it is seen as racist why isnt it it the case for Scotland and Wales?
To be honest I couldn't even tell you what day it falls on and i've lived here nearing 25 years.
I think St George's day isn't a massive thing in England because most people don't give a poo.
George slayed a dragon, wowee.
Does anyone really give a crap? I know I don't.
People just want an excuse to have a day off work
George slayed a dragon, wowee.
Does anyone really give a crap? I know I don't.
People just want an excuse to have a day off work
Originally Posted by Lush_Lola:
“Can someone tell me if the reason England hardly celebrate St Georges day because it would be seen as racist?.
Why is it St Patricks day gets world wide recognition and St G passes by like any other day?. And if it is seen as racist why isnt it it the case for Scotland and Wales?
To be honest I couldn't even tell you what day it falls on and i've lived here nearing 25 years.”
“Can someone tell me if the reason England hardly celebrate St Georges day because it would be seen as racist?.
Why is it St Patricks day gets world wide recognition and St G passes by like any other day?. And if it is seen as racist why isnt it it the case for Scotland and Wales?
To be honest I couldn't even tell you what day it falls on and i've lived here nearing 25 years.”
I think all this 'we can't celebrate because it's seen as racist' thing is a load of nonsense.
I don't remember any fanfare about St Georges day, ever.
It's always been a damp squib, now the lack of interest is because of immigrants or the mythical PC brigade are somehow preventing people from celebrating, stop reading the tabloids for a while and get on with it.
Sorry but those moaning about it really to blame the complete lack of interest on their fellow citizens.
Then again this patron saint's thing simply looks like an excuse for a pee-up.
In my drinking days I loved St Patricks day, just another excuse to drink from 11 until I was wobbly, a memorable 'session', Christmas was a 2 week 'session'.
Originally Posted by Choochy:
“There is NOTHING wrong with it but if it was a Caucasian only fashion show the PC brigade would be up in arms.”
“There is NOTHING wrong with it but if it was a Caucasian only fashion show the PC brigade would be up in arms.”
Are Caucasians under-represented in mainstream fashion media? If they are, I'd fully support the idea.
Originally Posted by Prince Monalulu:
“I think all this 'we can't celebrate because it's seen as racist' thing is a load of nonsense.
I don't remember any fanfare about St Georges day, ever.
It's always been a damp squib, now the lack of interest is because of immigrants or the mythical PC brigade are somehow preventing people from celebrating, stop reading the tabloids for a while and get on with it.
Sorry but those moaning about it really to blame the complete lack of interest on their fellow citizens.
Then again this patron saint's thing simply looks like an excuse for a pee-up.
In my drinking days I loved St Patricks day, just another excuse to drink from 11 until I was wobbly, a memorable 'session', Christmas was a 2 week 'session'.”
“I think all this 'we can't celebrate because it's seen as racist' thing is a load of nonsense.
I don't remember any fanfare about St Georges day, ever.
It's always been a damp squib, now the lack of interest is because of immigrants or the mythical PC brigade are somehow preventing people from celebrating, stop reading the tabloids for a while and get on with it.
Sorry but those moaning about it really to blame the complete lack of interest on their fellow citizens.
Then again this patron saint's thing simply looks like an excuse for a pee-up.
In my drinking days I loved St Patricks day, just another excuse to drink from 11 until I was wobbly, a memorable 'session', Christmas was a 2 week 'session'.”
Agreed, especially with the highlighted part.
I am reading an interesting book at the moment about the fashion industry and models (Shut Up & Smile - Ian Halperin), and apparently the big fashion houses and Vogue, etc., don't use a lot of black or ethnic models is because 'rich white women buy the clothes'. (their words not mine).
The worrying thing is whenever anyone wants to say how the fashion industry is not racist, they always mention Naomi Campbell and Tyra Banks, which is shocking because you can pretty much count the black supermodels on one hand.
To have a black-only fashion show is not racist, it is just giving black girls a chance to have a go at what white people take for granted.
The worrying thing is whenever anyone wants to say how the fashion industry is not racist, they always mention Naomi Campbell and Tyra Banks, which is shocking because you can pretty much count the black supermodels on one hand.
To have a black-only fashion show is not racist, it is just giving black girls a chance to have a go at what white people take for granted.
Originally Posted by mask mud:
“I am reading an interesting book at the moment about the fashion industry and models (Shut Up & Smile - Ian Halperin), and apparently the big fashion houses and Vogue, etc., don't use a lot of black or ethnic models is because 'rich white women buy the clothes'. (their words not mine).
The worrying thing is whenever anyone wants to say how the fashion industry is not racist, they always mention Naomi Campbell and Tyra Banks, which is shocking because you can pretty much count the black supermodels on one hand.
To have a black-only fashion show is not racist, it is just giving black girls a chance to have a go at what white people take for granted.”
“I am reading an interesting book at the moment about the fashion industry and models (Shut Up & Smile - Ian Halperin), and apparently the big fashion houses and Vogue, etc., don't use a lot of black or ethnic models is because 'rich white women buy the clothes'. (their words not mine).
The worrying thing is whenever anyone wants to say how the fashion industry is not racist, they always mention Naomi Campbell and Tyra Banks, which is shocking because you can pretty much count the black supermodels on one hand.
To have a black-only fashion show is not racist, it is just giving black girls a chance to have a go at what white people take for granted.”
Exactly, business and sales dictate the models they use. If we all woke up tomorrow and every black person was a millionaire, next months magazines would be full of black models in adverts for luxury goods and catwalk fashion.
Of course you can have a Miss Black Britain contest, and a Miss Black next top model, and a Miss Black most brilliant hair contest, the list could go and on.
But until black people have the economic clout in sufficient numbers then they are always going to featured in the minority.
Also the numbers given in this thread for the amount of black people in the country are interesting.
1.3 million of which only a percentage will be interested in fashion and make up ect, is a tiny market.
Why would anybody in a "big business sense" particually aim for such a limited market?
The underlying problem is the disparity of numbers of population, the difference of percentages.
It's nobodies fault, least of all the people living in the UK today.
Until that is admitted, by the media in particular. And the inherent problems of being a visible very small minority addressed and acknowledged, I can see this endless row going on for ever.
Originally Posted by maskmud:
“I am reading an interesting book at the moment about the fashion industry and models (Shut Up & Smile - Ian Halperin), and apparently the big fashion houses and Vogue, etc., don't use a lot of black or ethnic models is because 'rich white women buy the clothes'. (their words not mine).
The worrying thing is whenever anyone wants to say how the fashion industry is not racist, they always mention Naomi Campbell and Tyra Banks, which is shocking because you can pretty much count the black supermodels on one hand.
To have a black-only fashion show is not racist, it is just giving black girls a chance to have a go at what white people take for granted.”
“I am reading an interesting book at the moment about the fashion industry and models (Shut Up & Smile - Ian Halperin), and apparently the big fashion houses and Vogue, etc., don't use a lot of black or ethnic models is because 'rich white women buy the clothes'. (their words not mine).
The worrying thing is whenever anyone wants to say how the fashion industry is not racist, they always mention Naomi Campbell and Tyra Banks, which is shocking because you can pretty much count the black supermodels on one hand.
To have a black-only fashion show is not racist, it is just giving black girls a chance to have a go at what white people take for granted.”
As simple as that. I don't understand why people are not understanding this. I see it as this country loves to put black people down so they can't excel and reach the levels that white peole reach. If these pageants don't exist then black women will have no chance in this industry. If Vibe magazine or XXL didn't exist, you wouldn't know that there are a lot of black models. People want it to be that the white man controls where and when black people can be successful.
It's like hiphop, not the new gangsta gun talking music, real hiphop. The mainstream didn't want to hear, so black people decided to take action. If the fashion industry don't want to change, then it's up to black women to take action.
Originally Posted by Speak-Softly:
“Exactly, business and sales dictate the models they use. If we all woke up tomorrow and every black person was a millionaire, next months magazines would be full of black models in adverts for luxury goods and catwalk fashion.
Of course you can have a Miss Black Britain contest, and a Miss Black next top model, and a Miss Black most brilliant hair contest, the list could go and on.
But until black people have the economic clout in sufficient numbers then they are always going to featured in the minority.
Also the numbers given in this thread for the amount of black people in the country are interesting.
1.3 million of which only a percentage will be interested in fashion and make up ect, is a tiny market.
Why would anybody in a "big business sense" particually aim for such a limited market?
The underlying problem is the disparity of numbers of population, the difference of percentages.
It's nobodies fault, least of all the people living in the UK today.
Until that is admitted, by the media in particular. And the inherent problems of being a visible very small minority addressed and acknowledged, I can see this endless row going on for ever.”
“Exactly, business and sales dictate the models they use. If we all woke up tomorrow and every black person was a millionaire, next months magazines would be full of black models in adverts for luxury goods and catwalk fashion.
Of course you can have a Miss Black Britain contest, and a Miss Black next top model, and a Miss Black most brilliant hair contest, the list could go and on.
But until black people have the economic clout in sufficient numbers then they are always going to featured in the minority.
Also the numbers given in this thread for the amount of black people in the country are interesting.
1.3 million of which only a percentage will be interested in fashion and make up ect, is a tiny market.
Why would anybody in a "big business sense" particually aim for such a limited market?
The underlying problem is the disparity of numbers of population, the difference of percentages.
It's nobodies fault, least of all the people living in the UK today.
Until that is admitted, by the media in particular. And the inherent problems of being a visible very small minority addressed and acknowledged, I can see this endless row going on for ever.”
Thanks for seeing sense. To any anyone who disbelieves the "only 1.3 million" figure then perhaps offer to count all of us black folk personnally?
Originally Posted by maskmud:
“I am reading an interesting book at the moment about the fashion industry and models (Shut Up & Smile - Ian Halperin), and apparently the big fashion houses and Vogue, etc., don't use a lot of black or ethnic models is because 'rich white women buy the clothes'. (their words not mine).
The worrying thing is whenever anyone wants to say how the fashion industry is not racist, they always mention Naomi Campbell and Tyra Banks, which is shocking because you can pretty much count the black supermodels on one hand.
To have a black-only fashion show is not racist, it is just giving black girls a chance to have a go at what white people take for granted.”
“I am reading an interesting book at the moment about the fashion industry and models (Shut Up & Smile - Ian Halperin), and apparently the big fashion houses and Vogue, etc., don't use a lot of black or ethnic models is because 'rich white women buy the clothes'. (their words not mine).
The worrying thing is whenever anyone wants to say how the fashion industry is not racist, they always mention Naomi Campbell and Tyra Banks, which is shocking because you can pretty much count the black supermodels on one hand.
To have a black-only fashion show is not racist, it is just giving black girls a chance to have a go at what white people take for granted.”
Originally Posted by truvoice:
“As simple as that. I don't understand why people are not understanding this. I see it as this country loves to put black people down so they can't excel and reach the levels that white peole reach. If these pageants don't exist then black women will have no chance in this industry. If Vibe magazine or XXL didn't exist, you wouldn't know that there are a lot of black models. People want it to be that the white man controls where and when black people can be successful.
It's like hiphop, not the new gangsta gun talking music, real hiphop. The mainstream didn't want to hear, so black people decided to take action. If the fashion industry don't want to change, then it's up to black women to take action.”
“As simple as that. I don't understand why people are not understanding this. I see it as this country loves to put black people down so they can't excel and reach the levels that white peole reach. If these pageants don't exist then black women will have no chance in this industry. If Vibe magazine or XXL didn't exist, you wouldn't know that there are a lot of black models. People want it to be that the white man controls where and when black people can be successful.
It's like hiphop, not the new gangsta gun talking music, real hiphop. The mainstream didn't want to hear, so black people decided to take action. If the fashion industry don't want to change, then it's up to black women to take action.”
So I take it then that you would have no objection if a white women only fashion competition was set up. After all it would simply be a logical and consistent extension of a black women's show.
Sorry but I just don't see how one is racist and the other isn't. I simply cannot agree with different rules applying to both.
Imagine having a 'whites only' fashion show, that would go down like a lead baloon, but it's ok when it's the other way round...
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“So I take it then that you would have no objection if a white women only fashion competition was set up. After all it would simply be a logical and consistent extension of a black women's show.
Sorry but I just don't see how one is racist and the other isn't. I simply cannot agree with different rules applying to both.”
“So I take it then that you would have no objection if a white women only fashion competition was set up. After all it would simply be a logical and consistent extension of a black women's show.
Sorry but I just don't see how one is racist and the other isn't. I simply cannot agree with different rules applying to both.”
Because the grounds for setting up the black competition are different. Why would white women need a white-exclusive show when they already have the advantage in mainstream ones?
Originally Posted by bluespeed:
“Because the grounds for setting up the black competition are different. Why would white women need a white-exclusive show when they already have the advantage in mainstream ones?”
“Because the grounds for setting up the black competition are different. Why would white women need a white-exclusive show when they already have the advantage in mainstream ones?”
you tell 'em!
Originally Posted by bluespeed:
“Because the grounds for setting up the black competition are different. Why would white women need a white-exclusive show when they already have the advantage in mainstream ones?”
“Because the grounds for setting up the black competition are different. Why would white women need a white-exclusive show when they already have the advantage in mainstream ones?”
Because that's not the point.
The relevant issue is one of preventing any move towards apartheid, something that Nelson Mandela fought so hard and gallantly against.
No matter the reasons and apparent justifications. Once you start down that road, then it's only a matter of time before the whole thing snowballs and cultural divisions between the races widen again.
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“Because that's not the point.
The relevant issue is one of preventing any move towards apartheid, something that Nelson Mandela fought so hard and gallantly against.
No matter the reasons and apparent justifications. Once you start down that road, then it's only a matter of time before the whole thing snowballs and cultural divisions between the races widen again.”
“Because that's not the point.
The relevant issue is one of preventing any move towards apartheid, something that Nelson Mandela fought so hard and gallantly against.
No matter the reasons and apparent justifications. Once you start down that road, then it's only a matter of time before the whole thing snowballs and cultural divisions between the races widen again.”
How exactly is it effecting you? is it creating divides between you and your neighbours? oh dear
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