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Line Rental Costs |
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#1 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Penicuik
Posts: 213
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Line Rental Costs
Why does line rental cost as much as it does? it just seems like easy cash.
does anyone know how much profit BT, Virgin etc.. make on line rental |
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#2 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,238
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For the cost of your line rental, BT have to maintain a physical line from the nearest exchange to your premises and some termination equipment, plust a proportion of the cost of maintaining the exchange.
As the line cost is constant, people living near the exchange effectively subsidise those living far away (in the same way that letters posted to high population density areas subsidise those posted to the highlands and islands). Given that BT are responsible for this line no matter how much it costs to repair or replace it doesn't seem an unreasonable charge. |
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#3 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NE Essex,6½m SSW of Sudbury TX
Posts: 7,107
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The 'gas pipes, water pipes and electricity cables argument' will follow shortly.
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#4 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,238
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Quote:
The 'gas pipes, water pipes and electricity cables argument' will follow shortly.
Do people wonder why a little bit of cable costs more than a gas pipe or mains cable? Do they think they have a personal cable from their house to the nearst power station? Or their own gas pipe to Siberia?
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#5 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 495
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No, I think Heinz is probably alluding to the fact that all other utilities can be bought from whichever provider you want e.g British Gas, Powergen, United Utilities etc etc but there is no requirement to carry on paying a 'rental' to the original 'industry' i.e. British Gas or your local electricity or water board etc for maintaining your water pipe, sewer etc.
Why should the phone system be any different? |
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#6 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,238
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Quote:
No, I think Heinz is probably alluding to the fact that all other utilities can be bought from whichever provider you want e.g British Gas, Powergen, United Utilities etc etc but there is no requirement to carry on paying a 'rental' to the original 'industry' i.e. British Gas or your local electricity or water board etc for maintaining your water pipe, sewer etc.
Why should the phone system be any different? To answer your question, you only have to listen to all the horror stories from people who have gone with LLU (and particularly those who have tried to get back). The problem with the way the government of the day handled the BT privitisation was that they should have split the company into two: One part responsible for the lines and terminating equipment in exchanges, and the other for carry calls between exchanges. Then the system could have worked in the same way as the power utilities (you do NOT have a choice as to who handles your water and sewage). In fact, that is the way it's going now, but there still seem to be more horror stories from people who go with LLU. That may, of course, change in the future. |
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#7 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,146
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With Toucan, line rental only costs £8.99 per month for 12 months paid directly to Toucan.
I transferred to Toucan from BT & they have been great. Their 1571 service is so much better as well. I have been given £10 credit for signing up online & £25 for choosing Toucan & all UK call centres. |
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#8 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bacup Lancs, Winter Hill
Posts: 1,289
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I only need a BT line for internet but I still have to pay the line rental, I didn't have to pay any line rental when I had NTL cable broadband only so who pays for that?
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#9 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South Coast
Posts: 892
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It's a different pricing model as VM own and have exclusive use of their network, they can cross subsidise between products if it suits them, all the revenue ends up in a VM pot somewhere.
BT's business is regulated and cross subsidising by BT is not generally allowed. They also have to make the network available to competitors but also maintain it. Under the cucrrent model, without line rental, you could end up where BT receives no revenue from a customer and yet still has to maintain a line for that customer. In some countries you can have a line for ADSL with no telephone service on it at a reduced rate. However, at the end of the day, it comes down to how you slice the cake and balance the books. It's all got to be paid for by someone, just a case of how those costs are apportioned. |
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#10 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bacup Lancs, Winter Hill
Posts: 1,289
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I wonder if when all the UK is on 21CN we too could have an option of adsl without a telephone but pay a reduced line rental
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#11 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: manchester
Posts: 946
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Quote:
I wonder if when all the UK is on 21CN we too could have an option of adsl without a telephone but pay a reduced line rental
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#12 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Arley, Worcs
Posts: 1,334
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Quote:
With Toucan, line rental only costs £8.99 per month for 12 months paid directly to Toucan.
I transferred to Toucan from BT & they have been great. Their 1571 service is so much better as well. I have been given £10 credit for signing up online & £25 for choosing Toucan & all UK call centres. Do us all a favour and drop 1571! http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...html?p=2408629 |
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#13 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,238
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Quote:
although openreach still works to a budget provided by BT,the feeling amongst the ranks is that we will go the way of O2 and be finally split off. we have our own internal targets and generate our own revenues so to be honest i don't think it will be long before the above is true. purely cos if they seperated us BT couldn't possibly charge excessive line rental for a product they no longer maintain. as it stands now the cost of maintaining the network comes out of our budget for provision and repair, and we as a group get the money back from your service providers. so watch this space as it is only a matter of time.
It would make things so much more transparant. Of course, there are two models that could be used: 1) You (Openreach) charge a customer for the piece of wire and the customer contacts you directly for faults and installations. 2) The customers main telephony provider and/or ISP pay Openreach out of what the charge the customer. I hope they go with option (1) as it's completely transparant and prevents the possibility of your IPS/TP failing to properly pass on fault reports or blaming Openreach for a problem that is actuall due to its own incompetance. The only disadvantage with (1) is that it's an extra bill. |
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#14 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,884
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If Openreach split from BT, wouldn't that reduce the possibility of FTTH because they wouldn't be able to access BT's cash pot?
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#15 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London
Posts: 154
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Quote:
Their 1571 service is better? Does that mean if i ring you and your engaged, I don't get connected and charged for the call by being told 'you're talking on the phone'? I don't think so.
Do us all a favour and drop 1571! http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...html?p=2408629 are you Heinz in disguise
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#16 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NE Essex,6½m SSW of Sudbury TX
Posts: 7,107
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Quote:
My god man
are you Heinz in disguise![]() |
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#17 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: manchester
Posts: 946
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Quote:
I really hope this comes to pass.
It would make things so much more transparant. Of course, there are two models that could be used: 1) You (Openreach) charge a customer for the piece of wire and the customer contacts you directly for faults and installations. 2) The customers main telephony provider and/or ISP pay Openreach out of what the charge the customer. I hope they go with option (1) as it's completely transparant and prevents the possibility of your IPS/TP failing to properly pass on fault reports or blaming Openreach for a problem that is actuall due to its own incompetance. The only disadvantage with (1) is that it's an extra bill. |
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#18 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Arley, Worcs
Posts: 1,334
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Quote:
My god man
are you Heinz in disguise![]() Good grief no. In fact, I'm still boycotting Heinz for moving production of HP sauce (Euro Sauce) to Holland. |
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#19 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: manchester
Posts: 946
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Quote:
If Openreach split from BT, wouldn't that reduce the possibility of FTTH because they wouldn't be able to access BT's cash pot?
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#20 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,238
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Quote:
as i said, they will gradually bring our budgets in line with what were generating in revenue. to slowely wein us of suckling BT's tit.
That's bad news since I only effectively use that 'part' of BT so if it's detached and has to stand alone it will need to put up prices. And as I don't use BT for anything else I won't benefit from any corresponing reduction from any of the other elements of their business. |
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#21 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: manchester
Posts: 946
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Quote:
So you are saying that currently, OpenReach are a loss making enterprise?
That's bad news since I only effectively use that 'part' of BT so if it's detached and has to stand alone it will need to put up prices. And as I don't use BT for anything else I won't benefit from any corresponing reduction from any of the other elements of their business. |
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#22 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bacup Lancs, Winter Hill
Posts: 1,289
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I think you guys from openreach are doing a great job, where i live they have been there busy throughout the valley.
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#23 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Proud European!
Posts: 7,120
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Quote:
Good grief no. In fact, I'm still boycotting Heinz for moving production of HP sauce (Euro Sauce) to Holland.
However I agree with Mr Heinz here and on MSE about 1571. |
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are you Heinz in disguise